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Old December 13, 2013, 02:58 PM   #26
maillemaker
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I use straight WW for making .45 ACP rounds. It's a relatively low velocity bullet. I have not had any problems with leading. I cast the Lee Tumble Lube Groove bullet lubed with Lee Alox.

I pay $20 per 5-gallon bucket. Like others, it's full of trash in addition to wheel weights. I get about 80% yield of useable weights.

Like others said, you want to skim your melt pot as it is melting to get the non-lead out of the melt before the temp gets high enough to melt the zinc wheel weights.

My bullets are all of "plinker" or "survivalist" grade, so I am not particularly concerned about the exact alloy. If you were trying to make match grade ammo you would want to use a consistent alloy.

Steve
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Old December 14, 2013, 01:27 PM   #27
totalloser
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If you water drop them it will come WAY up though. WW alloy is well suited to heat treatment- even redneck heat treatment.

I haven't used that mix, but I got 26 bhn from just water dropping WW lead, and 18-20 bhn water dropping 1 part WW to 2 parts plumbing lead, so if you water drop, I would guess that mix would get you at least over 20 which gets you into the 20K psi charge range. 44 special tops out in the 15,500 psi range and 44 mag in the 40,000 psi range. So there is a LOT of variation between these loads.

Bhn of 11 would be fine for 15,500psi in a 44sp, but per Lee, 44 mag should be more like the range of 31.4 bhn. HUGE difference.

If it were me, and I didn't want to shell out for a tester, I'd use a mix backed by data double verified off the net and go a little heavier on the WW's. I'd lean towards a water dropped process so that the alloying goes further, but that depends on your source of lead. I have a large source of plumbing lead, and have to pay for WW, so I water drop my own mix to get the hardness I need with more plumbing lead.

Keep in mind, too soft means the charge pressure overcomes the tensile strength of the boolit, and when it blows past it, it causes "gas cutting" which leads up the barrel. Too hard can do the same if the boolit doesn't take the shape of the bore and the lube blows out. The lube basically acts as a liquid piston ring to prevent gas blowby, and thus prevents gas cutting.

But the range of OK is pretty wide. Since you won't know your bhn, I'd water drop to get it higher than 11ish to keep you in the safe range for preventing leading. And oven heat treating and a bhn tester are in your future if you want to push 44mag pressures. But it CAN be done.

PS when I say oven heat treating, I mean a cheap toaster oven with a decent oven thermometer and a bucket of water Like think less than $50. And one last note: If the hardness is not adequate, leading likely will take place pretty quickly, so watch out.
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Last edited by totalloser; December 14, 2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old December 16, 2013, 09:30 PM   #28
Swampman1
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Quote:
I pay $20 per 5-gallon bucket. Like others, it's full of trash in addition to wheel weights. I get about 80% yield of useable weights
That is indeed a good price Steve. My local tire shops wont even sell me any. They are going straight to the recycling center. So I talked to the guy at the recycling center, and he said whenever they get some in, he will call me. Not the best situation...but it will have to work.

Quote:
If you water drop them it will come WAY up though. WW alloy is well suited to heat treatment- even redneck heat treatment.
Tell me about this redneck heat treatment

Quote:
I haven't used that mix, but I got 26 bhn from just water dropping WW lead, and 18-20 bhn water dropping 1 part WW to 2 parts plumbing lead, so if you water drop, I would guess that mix would get you at least over 20 which gets you into the 20K psi charge range. 44 special tops out in the 15,500 psi range and 44 mag in the 40,000 psi range
I've seen videos showing this water dropping, and even saw one the dropped his bullets in ice water. Would ice water increase the BHN even more than water dropping? I like the 18-20 BHN with 1 part WW to 2 parts plumbing lead(I assume plumbing lead to be close to pure?) I think that's what I will go for with the 44 special in 44 mag cases when the time comes.
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Old December 16, 2013, 10:31 PM   #29
totalloser
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Water dropping is what I would call redneck heat treating. Dropping hot into the water quenches them and they continue to harden- I believe it's a logarithmic increasing hardness. This means it continues to harden, but over time hardens slower and slower. Concrete cures in a similar way with little to gain after a month. WW alloy is pretty much as hard as it's gonna get when you hit 48 hours, but supposedly eventually starts softening back up. But I've heard of people pulling well documented mothballed water dropped boolits off the shelf about a decade later with only a drop in hardness of about 2bnh, so sort of a non-issue on that count.

Less redneck heat treatment is to heat the boolits on a tray in a toaster oven with a baking thermometer (ovens are notoriously inaccurate at the dial) and then quenching in water. I don't know about ice water. I have heard of folks doing it, but I haven't found the need yet. I would guess it speeds up the hardening process and increases hardness. Having hotter drops should also help in this regard. I drop pretty hot- shortly after the sprue hardens.

If you water drop the alloy I posted, I really doubt it will be out of the range for 44 special. Should work nicely. I was actually quite surprised that the hardness came up so close to 26 since I was only using 1/3 as much WW alloy. I *think* the plumbing lead is pretty close to pure. But even if it's got some tin, the heat treatment is all about the antimony and arsenic.

When I mixed up that batch, I was sort of crossing my fingers, but it came out more than adequate.

Definitely check out this linky: http://www.lasc.us/ They have a STUNNING amount of interesting and in some cases surprising information. Best resource for casting I have found to date.
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