most powerful

diesl44 · December 15, 1999, 10:01 PM

hi all, i'm looking for the most powerful 9mm amunition on the market , stopping power would be my main concern, i have a beretta 92fs, love the gun , its a marvel of engineering, but with all this talk i hear of bigger calibers and all , i feel a little under powered....but alas this beretta is it , i will never part with it ...just want more power ...thanks in advance

**4V50 Gary** · December 16, 1999, 12:00 AM

Well, if you don't mind shooting hotter SMG ammo and ruining your gun and possibly injurying yourself....stay within factory loaded stuff. Shot placement is the key and everything else is secondary.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

Big Bunny · December 16, 1999, 03:18 PM

Gary ...I couldn't agree more.

(Perhaps if he should go to the 'Reloading 'website on TFL for more good advice on this type of thing. As handgun velocity goes up, accuracy comes down - for a variety of factors, some physiological !)

------------------
***Big Bunny***

Paul B. · December 17, 1999, 01:35 PM

Big Bunny. While you can reload 9MM to a more powerful nround, using reloads for self defense is a big NO NO! An anti-gun prosecutor will nail you to the wall, because you made up extra powerful ammunition designed to kill a human being. Murder 1 for you, guaranteed.

Diesl44, Look at the Plus P 9MM ammo made by Cor-Bon. it is supposedly some of the hottest ammo on the market, being equivilant to Plus P Plus ammo sold only to law enforcement.
Frankly, I use Federals 9BP hollow points in my 9MM's. My feeling is hit him in the sticking place and even hardball should work. A lot easier on the gun and shooter too.
Paul B.

James K · December 17, 1999, 02:23 PM

Hi, Paul B.

I agree on reloads for self defense and even some of the factory stuff like Black Talon could be a problem.

The last time I mentioned that subject, I was roundly flamed by people of the "I kill 'em and to heck with the cops, DA, etc." school. I just hope they don't learn the hard way.

"And not only did the defendant carry a deadly weapon and roam the streets looking for someone to kill, he wasn't satisfied with ordinary bullets. He went into his basement in secrecy and concocted ammunition which could have only one purpose, to kill and maim, to tear and rip the flesh and inflict as much pain as possible on his victim. Our soldiers are not allowed to use ammunition like this, even on enemies of the country, but this psychotic stalker, etc."

The people who warn about ammo have been there and seen and heard just that sort of stuff. And it works with a jury, even those who are not anti-gun.

Jim

Now the trigger happy gunsels can flame me.

Jim

Jeff OTMG · December 18, 1999, 07:42 PM

Note the FPE on a 9mm at over 2000 fps.
http://www.rbcd.net/

Bob Locke · December 19, 1999, 11:13 PM

Paul B. noted the ammo that I carry in my Sig P239: Cor-Bon +P. I recommend either the 115-gr. or the 125-gr. flavor. Both pack a LOT of whallop due to their velocities. The boxes as stamped by Cor-Bon are understated by about 10% according to a review that I read in Guns & Ammo about two years ago. That stuff is hot, hot, hot!

Big Bunny · December 20, 1999, 07:14 PM

No, Paul B, I was talking generally, not about the USA self-defence scenario.

I would still go for the lowest power, FMJ... then the crap prosecuting council can throw at you can be reversed!"Y'r Honor, He used Lowerst velocity possible and a projectile used by our armed heros...etc etc." " MY client really FEELS for the criminals and only wished to 'share and care' his way through a difficult assault, not the other man's fault of course, the broken bottle and GLOCK 34 he had when he asked for money he was merely keeping for a friend who went to the john".....

Of course a 9mm may not be the 'single shot stopper' 9mm afficionados claim it to be, give them the full mag I suppose....

I still think one or two aimed shots double tap (OK- OK- a factory round !) of less than "hot" specifications may be the way to go, especially thinking about over-penetration, terminal ballistics and the increased noise/blast often disorientating and confusing a firer further, especially in a building or close quarters environment.

But thats my 10C worth on the subject.

------------------
***Big Bunny***

Glenn E. Meyer · December 25, 1999, 01:09 AM

I prefer to have my 9 mm unloaded.
I will just stand in front of the bad
guys and rack my 12 gauge repeatedly.
The sound will cause them to run away.

Whoops - wrong mythology thread.

I'm with Jim - there isn't much more
you can get by reloading as versus quality
factory loads. Why risk it?

Testosterone driven flames can be sent
to Jim. He blinded me with his wit.

James K · December 25, 1999, 07:11 PM

Hi, Protoolman,

I have both heard, and heard of, the type of ammo being brought up in court. It all depends on how bad someone wants to get you. DAs don't need to be gun experts, they have all the resources of the police firearms experts at their call.

Some of these guys barely know which end the bullet comes out, but most are pretty sharp, and they work for the state, so they will testify the way the DA wants them to. They usually won't lie, but they will "slant" and "spin" to get the effect the DA wants.

In a case where the bullets that killed a man were never found, the state expert testified that, "The wounds in the victim are not inconsistent with those which would be made by the gun found in the defendant's home." If a jury wants to read that as "expert" testimony that the defendant's gun was used in the killing, it's OK by the expert. If the defense attorney chooses not to challenge such a silly statement, his client is that much closer to jail time.

In that case, the defense counsel did not "cross" the expert and his client got 20 years. (IMHO, he was guilty as sin, but the "expert" testimony was still gibberish.)

Jim

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December 15, 1999, 10:01 PM	#1
diesl44 Junior Member Join Date: December 14, 1999 Location: mine hill,n.j.u.s.a. Posts: 14	hi all, i'm looking for the most powerful 9mm amunition on the market , stopping power would be my main concern, i have a beretta 92fs, love the gun , its a marvel of engineering, but with all this talk i hear of bigger calibers and all , i feel a little under powered....but alas this beretta is it , i will never part with it ...just want more power ...thanks in advance

December 16, 1999, 12:00 AM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Well, if you don't mind shooting hotter SMG ammo and ruining your gun and possibly injurying yourself....stay within factory loaded stuff. Shot placement is the key and everything else is secondary. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

December 16, 1999, 03:18 PM	#3
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Gary ...I couldn't agree more. (Perhaps if he should go to the 'Reloading 'website on TFL for more good advice on this type of thing. As handgun velocity goes up, accuracy comes down - for a variety of factors, some physiological !) ------------------ *Big Bunny*

December 17, 1999, 01:35 PM	#4
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	Big Bunny. While you can reload 9MM to a more powerful nround, using reloads for self defense is a big NO NO! An anti-gun prosecutor will nail you to the wall, because you made up extra powerful ammunition designed to kill a human being. Murder 1 for you, guaranteed. Diesl44, Look at the Plus P 9MM ammo made by Cor-Bon. it is supposedly some of the hottest ammo on the market, being equivilant to Plus P Plus ammo sold only to law enforcement. Frankly, I use Federals 9BP hollow points in my 9MM's. My feeling is hit him in the sticking place and even hardball should work. A lot easier on the gun and shooter too. Paul B.

December 17, 1999, 02:23 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Paul B. I agree on reloads for self defense and even some of the factory stuff like Black Talon could be a problem. The last time I mentioned that subject, I was roundly flamed by people of the "I kill 'em and to heck with the cops, DA, etc." school. I just hope they don't learn the hard way. "And not only did the defendant carry a deadly weapon and roam the streets looking for someone to kill, he wasn't satisfied with ordinary bullets. He went into his basement in secrecy and concocted ammunition which could have only one purpose, to kill and maim, to tear and rip the flesh and inflict as much pain as possible on his victim. Our soldiers are not allowed to use ammunition like this, even on enemies of the country, but this psychotic stalker, etc." The people who warn about ammo have been there and seen and heard just that sort of stuff. And it works with a jury, even those who are not anti-gun. Jim Now the trigger happy gunsels can flame me. Jim

December 18, 1999, 07:42 PM	#6
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,707	Note the FPE on a 9mm at over 2000 fps. http://www.rbcd.net/

December 19, 1999, 11:13 PM	#7
Bob Locke Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1999 Location: Greeley, CO Posts: 2,518	Paul B. noted the ammo that I carry in my Sig P239: Cor-Bon +P. I recommend either the 115-gr. or the 125-gr. flavor. Both pack a LOT of whallop due to their velocities. The boxes as stamped by Cor-Bon are understated by about 10% according to a review that I read in Guns & Ammo about two years ago. That stuff is hot, hot, hot!

December 20, 1999, 07:14 PM	#8
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	No, Paul B, I was talking generally, not about the USA self-defence scenario. I would still go for the lowest power, FMJ... then the crap prosecuting council can throw at you can be reversed!"Y'r Honor, He used Lowerst velocity possible and a projectile used by our armed heros...etc etc." " MY client really FEELS for the criminals and only wished to 'share and care' his way through a difficult assault, not the other man's fault of course, the broken bottle and GLOCK 34 he had when he asked for money he was merely keeping for a friend who went to the john"..... Of course a 9mm may not be the 'single shot stopper' 9mm afficionados claim it to be, give them the full mag I suppose.... I still think one or two aimed shots double tap (OK- OK- a factory round !) of less than "hot" specifications may be the way to go, especially thinking about over-penetration, terminal ballistics and the increased noise/blast often disorientating and confusing a firer further, especially in a building or close quarters environment. But thats my 10C worth on the subject. ------------------ *Big Bunny*

December 25, 1999, 01:09 AM	#9
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I prefer to have my 9 mm unloaded. I will just stand in front of the bad guys and rack my 12 gauge repeatedly. The sound will cause them to run away. Whoops - wrong mythology thread. I'm with Jim - there isn't much more you can get by reloading as versus quality factory loads. Why risk it? Testosterone driven flames can be sent to Jim. He blinded me with his wit.

December 25, 1999, 07:11 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Protoolman, I have both heard, and heard of, the type of ammo being brought up in court. It all depends on how bad someone wants to get you. DAs don't need to be gun experts, they have all the resources of the police firearms experts at their call. Some of these guys barely know which end the bullet comes out, but most are pretty sharp, and they work for the state, so they will testify the way the DA wants them to. They usually won't lie, but they will "slant" and "spin" to get the effect the DA wants. In a case where the bullets that killed a man were never found, the state expert testified that, "The wounds in the victim are not inconsistent with those which would be made by the gun found in the defendant's home." If a jury wants to read that as "expert" testimony that the defendant's gun was used in the killing, it's OK by the expert. If the defense attorney chooses not to challenge such a silly statement, his client is that much closer to jail time. In that case, the defense counsel did not "cross" the expert and his client got 20 years. (IMHO, he was guilty as sin, but the "expert" testimony was still gibberish.) Jim