In Search of Components

colbad · March 3, 2014, 01:13 AM

My son who recently turned 18 surprised me the other day by asking if we could go out and shoot some trap. I used to be a very competitive shooter and traveled extensively shooting trap. Today we went out to the local range and watched some of the Winter Grand finish up and shot a few rounds of practice. The boy did surprisingly well for his first time and shot in the 90s with an 870 field grade gun. He is now excited to go shoot some more and I am excited to have a shooting partner. I want to get him started on shooting bunker so will need to fire up the reloaded after it sitting idle for many years.

So here are my questions. What is a good price for the following... and where I can get? I don't mind buying bulk but don't like to get screwed over with price gouging. Have been a little out of touch with all for several years.

IMR Hi Skor 700X (will buy as much as needed for a good deal per/lb but don't want to really store more than 50 labs at one time)

Magnum Shot 71/2 or 8 per 25lb bag (would be willing to buy by the ton if price right)

Wads (generally Remington future 8 or Winchester AA)

Primers (Winchester or Fed 209s)

As an aside, both the kid and myself were pretty surprised at some of the new high end target guns. He commented that every gun we looked equaled a full year of college tuition w/ room and board. You would never know the economy had issues if you looked around at all the $1M+ motor coaches at the shoot and all the $10K+ guns being shot

loademwell · March 3, 2014, 08:50 AM

Just picked up some components yesterday for the shot gun...

700-X: Not real sure on this one. I have a little myself but don't think I have ever reloaded with it. I'm cheap, so I think I bought Clay Dot (18.99 ish for a lb) But it seems to work great. Been using that in my shotgun for a year now.

Wads: I bought the ones you were looking for for 10

Shot: got #8 for 44 bucks.

Primers: 3.19 to 4 bucks.

I live on the WI, MN boarder, We have Fleet farm / or farm fleet (depending on the state its in) Thats where I went. That seems to be on the lower side of average.
I always check when I go into any store for this kind of stuff. And to be honest, in most cases, I have to go to 2 to 3 stores to get all the right stuff. One place will have have the shot, primers, and wads (fleet farm) and then I have to drive somewhere else for the powder (wolf's den).
All in all, I spent right about $100 for 500 rounds.
Good luck!!!!

rlc323 · March 3, 2014, 09:04 AM

The best place to buy components is locally so you do not have to pay the shipping and haz-mat fees. I am guessing you were at the Spring Grand at Tucson Trap and Skeet Club yesterday? Many of the larger shoots have vendors who attend and sell components on the site. Some clubs also have a pro shop that sells items as well.

Ask around at the local club, trapshooters are usually a pretty friendly bunch and they will surely know where to go for the deals on components locally.

You may not realize that powder has become increasingly hard to find, and the price of lead is pretty steep as well. Many shooters have given up reloading and have been getting by using the cheaper than premium shells such as Rio, Estate, Federal Top Guns, and Remington Gun Clubs. Check around on deals for these. Many dealers have a bulk price on these type shells if you buy a large quantity.

Brian Pfleuger · March 3, 2014, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlc323

The best place to buy components is locally so you do not have to pay the shipping and haz-mat fees.

For most folks, this is almost never true.

For me, local prices are so high that I need only order some combination equivalent to the price of 3 pounds of powder and I've (at least) covered hazmat. Local prices run $10-15 per pound of powder higher and $15-20 per 1000 primers.

Hazmat is $25, shipping is usually $10-15. That means $35 or so extra cost. 3 pounds of powder saves me at least $30, if not $45. Ordering an 8lb jug of powder would save me close to $75, all by itself. If I buy 3lbs powder and 1000 primers, I save at least $20 over local prices, usually more like $35-40.

rlc323 · March 3, 2014, 01:22 PM

Brian, I was referring mainly to shotgun reloading where we usually buy a large quantity at a time. A 25 lb. bag of lead, or a pound of powder will only load about 360 1 1/8 shells which is about one day of shooting for most registered trapshooters. Paying shipping on any big quantity of lead shot is cost prohibitive. Shipping 5000 wads also would be half the cost of the wads themselves.

I should have prefaced my statement so that it was more clear. Most trapshooters buy their components at their local club, or travel to a retailer that specializes in clay target sports, and buy in quantity. Many of the larger shoots have vendors that sell on the site. The vendors have to compete on price and as a rule powder, primers and wads are cheaper than any price on the net. These dealers sell in bulk you never see them bring a 1 pound container of powder, very few bring 4 pounders.

The OP was looking to buy in quantity, and a ton of shot would likely have to be truck shipped, and that would not be cheap.

I have been reloading since 1971 and have never paid a haz-mat or shipping fee on any of my shotgun powder/primers, and have never bought under 8 lbs at a time. It is just not cost effective with the volume of components (about 5000 registered targets annually) that I consume.

I have never seen a big box retailer with any bargains. Cabelas, Bass Pro, and Scheels are not anywhere close to being affordable. You have to search out the retailers in your area. For us it is Graf's in St. Charles or Mexico Missouri or Recobs out of Wisconsin.

nemesiss45 · March 3, 2014, 01:23 PM

Yeah, if I order 8lbs of powder, I am usually saving $5-7/lb even after hazmat and shipping

FrankenMauser · March 3, 2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

The best place to buy components is locally so you do not have to pay the shipping and haz-mat fees.

In my area, that's true for shot, due to shipping costs. ...but that's about it.
It was bad when I lived near Salt Lake City. It's even worse where I'm at now.

Wads, hulls, and primers are much cheaper online (even with shipping).
For example...
CB1100-12SL or CB1118-12 wads are easily obtained for $10 or less, per 500, online (and well under $20 per 1,000 in bulk). But, local retailers want $20+ per 500. Some places even repackage the wads into 100-piece lots and still want $10 for the bag. "Bulk discounts? Are you crazy!"

Once-fired hulls will run you damn near $25 per 100, locally, even for trash like Estate. For that, I can buy factory loads. Yet, I can buy once-fired Winchester AA-HS or Remington STS hulls online for $10 per 100, or less. (With bulk discounts as an option.)

And, of course, if you wait for a sale price online, the gap widens.

Shotgun clubs are not very common in some parts of the country. Where I'm at now, I know of only one shotgun range within 90 miles. ...and I hear it has been closed for 3-4 years, due to equipment breakage and lack of patronage. Even so, it was just a shotgun range attached to a public rifle range.

rlc323 · March 3, 2014, 01:47 PM

Frankenmauser your locals really are rough on that wad price. I bought 5000 CB1118 from Mike Graf for $74 last fall, shot was $40 a bag for Lawrence magnum. 8lbs of WST for $129 and that seemed high but I was out so I got it, and now glad I did.

colbad · March 3, 2014, 11:33 PM

Thanks to all. I think I will start with the gun club and see what they have. The State shoot is coming up so I may go see what I can find there from vendors if I am not traveling.

Beginning to wonder even if it is cost effective any more to reload? Although I kind of did enjoy the process. Anyone break down their cost per box that you are reloading. Just off the top of my head it sounds like price is coming in around $5 as box reloaded? That does not even take into account gas driving around to find all.

I suspect that the hidden agenda of this administration is to phase out guns by making it a rich mans hobby. Inflate the price of guns/ammo and many may give it up. I feel bad for my kids and other young ones who may not be able to afford to shoot for a long time.

rlc323 · March 4, 2014, 09:22 AM

Trapshooting has always been sort of a rich man's game. The early 70's were the high water mark of the sport, when real wages for working people were high and inflation had not set in, many blue-collar folks joined in.

A young fellow asked me once how he could be as good as I am at trap. I told him it was simple, "Just pour $50,000 down your barrel over 10 years." I may have to revise that figure to reflect the current prices, up to $75,000.

You are right about the high cost to reload these days. I am at $4.70 or so a box and I buy everything in bulk. One reason I reload is that I shoot a low speed/low recoil 1 ounce load for the first shot of doubles that no factory load duplicates. My reloads for singles and handicap actually are as good as the premium shells such as AA, STS's or Gold Medals as I use premium components. So I am shooting premium loads for $4.70 instead of $8.99.

The price difference between the premium shells and the cheaper offerings is in the components. The cheaper import shells use a hull that is not really reloadable, the powder is a little dirtier, the shot not as hard. Like I said before, you may be looking to buy a pallet load of Rio, Estate, Gun Clubs. I suggest starting with 1 1/8 ounces of shot 2 3/4 dram loads, as these low cost offerings work just as well at short yardage as premium shells, and won't beat you up with recoil.

FrankenMauser · March 4, 2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:

You are right about the high cost to reload these days. I am at $4.70 or so a box and I buy everything in bulk.

That's exactly what I calculated my last 12 ga reloads to be: $4.70 / box (25). But, I believe they were only 7/8 oz #8.

With reclaimed shot the cost drops a bit, but it's still around $4/box.

Even without buying in bulk, I can pick up the same 7/8 oz or 1 oz Estate load for $4.59 or $4.69 / box when it's on sale. Even decent Winchester loads show up on sale for $5.29-5.69 once in a while.

For the volume I shoot.... I shouldn't even be reloading 12 ga. I could buy more than enough shotshells to last me 1-2 years, each time they're on sale - without even putting a dent in the retailer's stock. ....but "needing" to reload the occasional couple boxes of 12 ga gives me an excuse to spend some quiet time in the reloading room, and it's not like I'm losing money.

Rico567 · March 4, 2014, 05:07 PM

If getting my components was as complicated as some posts in this thread make it out to be, I'd quit reloading today.

Maybe I'm just a K.I.S.S. reloader, but my only secrets are:

1. Find a vendor that takes back orders.

2. Place orders.

3. Orders come in.

NB: There is perhaps one element in all this that may not be obvious: I don't let myself run short enough that it matters. It's called "inventory control."

Brian Pfleuger · March 4, 2014, 05:31 PM

Who's making it complicated?

Pretty much everyone says, order bulk online except shot which is too heavy. That's not very complicated.

colbad · March 5, 2014, 12:34 AM

I think I will keep an eye open for sales on some inexpensive factory but still search down some components. Would like to teach the kid how to reload and as others have said, its kind of satisfying and relaxing to just go back to the reloading room and relax. When I was reloading I too used good components and my loads were just as good as factory. In that I am going to try to move the boy and myself more toward international bunker, I may have to reassess the cheep factory loads. Most should be just fine for 16 yard ATA.

I appreciate the help from all who took the time to share with me.

BigJimP · March 5, 2014, 07:15 PM

I'm at about $ 4.75 per box ....for a high quality 1 oz load in 12ga....

In my area :

Shot makes up about $ 0.10 per shell
Powder about 4 cents
Primers about 3 cents
Wads about 2 cents...

But I think teaching these young guys how to reload - is valuable - mostly so they can learn how to tailor their loads to what they want in terms of velocity, shot size, and amount of shot.../ these days a lot of us, especially in practice shoot 7/8 oz or 3/4 oz of 8's or 9's...especially in Skeet or at 16 yd trap sinlges.

Plus the time in your shop / at your loading bench is valuable time - make them turn off the cell phones, etc...and focus for an hour or so ( it won't kill them )....my grandkids whine about the cell phone rule in my shop - but they obey it ..if we're woodworking or reloading / or they don't get to participate. Gives me a chance to talk to them one on one too...which is not a bad thing. If some of the other kids are around / they can watch / sit on a stool in the shop - and be quiet too ...while we work.

I go back to my 1 oz loads at 1225 fps ...if I shoot a tournament with a 12ga....

March 3, 2014, 01:13 AM	#1
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	In Search of Components My son who recently turned 18 surprised me the other day by asking if we could go out and shoot some trap. I used to be a very competitive shooter and traveled extensively shooting trap. Today we went out to the local range and watched some of the Winter Grand finish up and shot a few rounds of practice. The boy did surprisingly well for his first time and shot in the 90s with an 870 field grade gun. He is now excited to go shoot some more and I am excited to have a shooting partner. I want to get him started on shooting bunker so will need to fire up the reloaded after it sitting idle for many years. So here are my questions. What is a good price for the following... and where I can get? I don't mind buying bulk but don't like to get screwed over with price gouging. Have been a little out of touch with all for several years. IMR Hi Skor 700X (will buy as much as needed for a good deal per/lb but don't want to really store more than 50 labs at one time) Magnum Shot 71/2 or 8 per 25lb bag (would be willing to buy by the ton if price right) Wads (generally Remington future 8 or Winchester AA) Primers (Winchester or Fed 209s) As an aside, both the kid and myself were pretty surprised at some of the new high end target guns. He commented that every gun we looked equaled a full year of college tuition w/ room and board. You would never know the economy had issues if you looked around at all the $1M+ motor coaches at the shoot and all the $10K+ guns being shot

March 3, 2014, 01:22 PM	#5
rlc323 Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2013 Location: Forgottonia, Il Posts: 217	Brian, I was referring mainly to shotgun reloading where we usually buy a large quantity at a time. A 25 lb. bag of lead, or a pound of powder will only load about 360 1 1/8 shells which is about one day of shooting for most registered trapshooters. Paying shipping on any big quantity of lead shot is cost prohibitive. Shipping 5000 wads also would be half the cost of the wads themselves. I should have prefaced my statement so that it was more clear. Most trapshooters buy their components at their local club, or travel to a retailer that specializes in clay target sports, and buy in quantity. Many of the larger shoots have vendors that sell on the site. The vendors have to compete on price and as a rule powder, primers and wads are cheaper than any price on the net. These dealers sell in bulk you never see them bring a 1 pound container of powder, very few bring 4 pounders. The OP was looking to buy in quantity, and a ton of shot would likely have to be truck shipped, and that would not be cheap. I have been reloading since 1971 and have never paid a haz-mat or shipping fee on any of my shotgun powder/primers, and have never bought under 8 lbs at a time. It is just not cost effective with the volume of components (about 5000 registered targets annually) that I consume. I have never seen a big box retailer with any bargains. Cabelas, Bass Pro, and Scheels are not anywhere close to being affordable. You have to search out the retailers in your area. For us it is Graf's in St. Charles or Mexico Missouri or Recobs out of Wisconsin. Last edited by rlc323; March 3, 2014 at 01:41 PM.

March 4, 2014, 05:07 PM	#12
Rico567 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Posts: 162	If getting my components was as complicated as some posts in this thread make it out to be, I'd quit reloading today. Maybe I'm just a K.I.S.S. reloader, but my only secrets are: 1. Find a vendor that takes back orders. 2. Place orders. 3. Orders come in. NB: There is perhaps one element in all this that may not be obvious: I don't let myself run short enough that it matters. It's called "inventory control." __________________ "Dear reader, suppose you are a member of Congress. Now, further suppose you are an idiot. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

March 4, 2014, 05:31 PM	#13
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Who's making it complicated? Pretty much everyone says, order bulk online except shot which is too heavy. That's not very complicated. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 3, 2014, 08:50 AM	#2
loademwell Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2012 Posts: 164	Just picked up some components yesterday for the shot gun... 700-X: Not real sure on this one. I have a little myself but don't think I have ever reloaded with it. I'm cheap, so I think I bought Clay Dot (18.99 ish for a lb) But it seems to work great. Been using that in my shotgun for a year now. Wads: I bought the ones you were looking for for 10 Shot: got #8 for 44 bucks. Primers: 3.19 to 4 bucks. I live on the WI, MN boarder, We have Fleet farm / or farm fleet (depending on the state its in) Thats where I went. That seems to be on the lower side of average. I always check when I go into any store for this kind of stuff. And to be honest, in most cases, I have to go to 2 to 3 stores to get all the right stuff. One place will have have the shot, primers, and wads (fleet farm) and then I have to drive somewhere else for the powder (wolf's den). All in all, I spent right about $100 for 500 rounds. Good luck!!!!

March 3, 2014, 09:04 AM	#3
rlc323 Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2013 Location: Forgottonia, Il Posts: 217	The best place to buy components is locally so you do not have to pay the shipping and haz-mat fees. I am guessing you were at the Spring Grand at Tucson Trap and Skeet Club yesterday? Many of the larger shoots have vendors who attend and sell components on the site. Some clubs also have a pro shop that sells items as well. Ask around at the local club, trapshooters are usually a pretty friendly bunch and they will surely know where to go for the deals on components locally. You may not realize that powder has become increasingly hard to find, and the price of lead is pretty steep as well. Many shooters have given up reloading and have been getting by using the cheaper than premium shells such as Rio, Estate, Federal Top Guns, and Remington Gun Clubs. Check around on deals for these. Many dealers have a bulk price on these type shells if you buy a large quantity.

March 3, 2014, 01:23 PM	#6
nemesiss45 Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2014 Posts: 526	Yeah, if I order 8lbs of powder, I am usually saving $5-7/lb even after hazmat and shipping

March 3, 2014, 01:47 PM	#8
rlc323 Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2013 Location: Forgottonia, Il Posts: 217	Frankenmauser your locals really are rough on that wad price. I bought 5000 CB1118 from Mike Graf for $74 last fall, shot was $40 a bag for Lawrence magnum. 8lbs of WST for $129 and that seemed high but I was out so I got it, and now glad I did.

March 3, 2014, 11:33 PM	#9
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	Thanks to all. I think I will start with the gun club and see what they have. The State shoot is coming up so I may go see what I can find there from vendors if I am not traveling. Beginning to wonder even if it is cost effective any more to reload? Although I kind of did enjoy the process. Anyone break down their cost per box that you are reloading. Just off the top of my head it sounds like price is coming in around $5 as box reloaded? That does not even take into account gas driving around to find all. I suspect that the hidden agenda of this administration is to phase out guns by making it a rich mans hobby. Inflate the price of guns/ammo and many may give it up. I feel bad for my kids and other young ones who may not be able to afford to shoot for a long time.

March 4, 2014, 09:22 AM	#10
rlc323 Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2013 Location: Forgottonia, Il Posts: 217	Trapshooting has always been sort of a rich man's game. The early 70's were the high water mark of the sport, when real wages for working people were high and inflation had not set in, many blue-collar folks joined in. A young fellow asked me once how he could be as good as I am at trap. I told him it was simple, "Just pour $50,000 down your barrel over 10 years." I may have to revise that figure to reflect the current prices, up to $75,000. You are right about the high cost to reload these days. I am at $4.70 or so a box and I buy everything in bulk. One reason I reload is that I shoot a low speed/low recoil 1 ounce load for the first shot of doubles that no factory load duplicates. My reloads for singles and handicap actually are as good as the premium shells such as AA, STS's or Gold Medals as I use premium components. So I am shooting premium loads for $4.70 instead of $8.99. The price difference between the premium shells and the cheaper offerings is in the components. The cheaper import shells use a hull that is not really reloadable, the powder is a little dirtier, the shot not as hard. Like I said before, you may be looking to buy a pallet load of Rio, Estate, Gun Clubs. I suggest starting with 1 1/8 ounces of shot 2 3/4 dram loads, as these low cost offerings work just as well at short yardage as premium shells, and won't beat you up with recoil.

March 5, 2014, 12:34 AM	#14
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	I think I will keep an eye open for sales on some inexpensive factory but still search down some components. Would like to teach the kid how to reload and as others have said, its kind of satisfying and relaxing to just go back to the reloading room and relax. When I was reloading I too used good components and my loads were just as good as factory. In that I am going to try to move the boy and myself more toward international bunker, I may have to reassess the cheep factory loads. Most should be just fine for 16 yard ATA. I appreciate the help from all who took the time to share with me.

March 5, 2014, 07:15 PM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I'm at about $ 4.75 per box ....for a high quality 1 oz load in 12ga.... In my area : Shot makes up about $ 0.10 per shell Powder about 4 cents Primers about 3 cents Wads about 2 cents... But I think teaching these young guys how to reload - is valuable - mostly so they can learn how to tailor their loads to what they want in terms of velocity, shot size, and amount of shot.../ these days a lot of us, especially in practice shoot 7/8 oz or 3/4 oz of 8's or 9's...especially in Skeet or at 16 yd trap sinlges. Plus the time in your shop / at your loading bench is valuable time - make them turn off the cell phones, etc...and focus for an hour or so ( it won't kill them )....my grandkids whine about the cell phone rule in my shop - but they obey it ..if we're woodworking or reloading / or they don't get to participate. Gives me a chance to talk to them one on one too...which is not a bad thing. If some of the other kids are around / they can watch / sit on a stool in the shop - and be quiet too ...while we work. I go back to my 1 oz loads at 1225 fps ...if I shoot a tournament with a 12ga....