Question about the economy of reloading - Page 2

NWPilgrim · July 13, 2009, 12:42 AM

If you can afford it at this time get it, but you won't need it until you have some empties. All it does is pretty up the cases. You could also wash/rinse the cases to get the dirt off.

You could easily reload them a couple of times before getting the tumbler. Basically, you should have one eventually but it is not required to get started.

I don't have experience with Frankford tumblers but there is another thread here about tumblers. Frankford does not seems to have a very good reputation for durability.

Uncle Buck · July 13, 2009, 09:53 AM

I started off with the RCBS kit (Rock chucker supreme press) and a set of carbide dies. It came with almost everything I needed. I already had a pair of dial calipers. I read the book twice, bought a Lyman guide and read that.
I really love this set-up and reloading. The only problem I have is the seating AND crimping in one step, so until I become much more proficient, I just do the seating first then run them through a second time to crimp them.

Fun Fun Fun

I have not found a better way to spend a rainy afternoon since I became disabled.

Anticonn · July 13, 2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Frankford does not seems to have a very good reputation for durability.

I saw that since posting last, Cabella's has a kit for a bit less that seems better liked.

jimgiven · July 13, 2009, 11:57 AM

Anticon....i have the Cabelas ver....works great. Over 10k tumbled with no probs.

Jim

Nosparetime · July 13, 2009, 04:00 PM

I have been loading for 40 years. Everybody should start with a single stage press. Make sure and get carbide dies. I have used Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Dillon. They all are good products if you take care to keep them clean and make sure they don't draw moisture.

Read a good reloading manual.

Midway used to sell a small tumbler that is a good starting tumbler. I use 2 large Dillon tumblers (I think they are the best). I use ground walnut shells for really dirty cases.(I put a little Brasso in the walnut shells ((I am sure there will be people that don't like that)) Do not use rouge treated media. I use crushed corn media with a little liquid car wax mixed in for a polish.

You will shoot more when you reload. Use a good hard cast bullet (158gr SWC) and load medium powered loads. Raineer Ballistic or Berry Bullets for a good plated bullet. Hodgon Clays or Accurate Arms #7 would be good powders. You do not need nor do I recommend max loads for practice.

Eventually you will want a progressive loader. I recommend Dillon products. I use 2 1050 and a 550. My single stage is a RCBS rockchucker.

Your cases should not be sticking with a clean gun. The suggestion to hone is a good one. (lightly!!)

Doodlebugger45 · July 13, 2009, 04:26 PM

I started reloading last winter and I'm loving it. Yeah, it can save some money no doubt. And I don't shoot nearly as much as some folks here do. I think you have the economics thought out pretty well. But there are some other really good things about it as well:

It gives you a lot of load versatility. You want a very mild 44 mag load for plinking? No problem, just find a load in a manual that will give you the velocity/weight combo that you want. Others here have already discussed the potential for better accuracy and that is true.

Like somone said earlier about the 45 Colt situation, it got to the point here where you simply couldn't find any of it for any price. Not a problem (once I had the brass anyway).

In my case it also gives me great enjoyment during the winter and spring. During the summer I do a lot of shooting, maybe not a whole lot of time to reload. During the fall I'm busy with hunting so I doubt I will reload a whole lot. But during the winter, the days are short and cold and I spend a lot of nights with nothimg much to do. Springtime is hit and miss for weather in regards to outdoor stuff. Those are the times when reloading is the most fun. Load up 100 rounds with different powders and bullets and when there's finally a nice day go out and shoot them and decide which load you like the best.

Finally, it gives you a chance to sit around with the old white haired geezers at the gun store and weigh in with your opinions regarding the best powders, bullets, primers, presses, etc.

Anticonn · July 13, 2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

You do not need nor do I recommend max loads for practice.

I dunno, I prefer plinking away with 158gr and punishing my hands. I would use the analogy of Olympic runners that train at high elevation, so they perform better at sea level. I over-condition myself to not flinch and hold the gun on target while absorbing a sizable recoil, and when using lighter defense rounds I perform better on follow-ups. As long as my point of aim isn't radically changed between practice and defense loads, it can only make me a more versatile shooter. Not to discredit those that practice with 38 Specials in their magnums, which isn't a bad practice for enjoyable shooting by any means, it's just not my cup of tea. As long as my gun can withstand the hard practice, I'm pretty OK with it

Ozzieman · July 14, 2009, 07:43 PM

Anticonn "Olympic runners that train at high elevation,"
That is a good idea if your an Olympic level shooter, but for shooters that are starting out, all max loads will do is induce flinch, another reason that starting out with 22's is so much better. You can see the mistakes you’re making with the gun as it fires instead of having to guess.
I do agree that with carry guns for SD I shoot only loads that equal the factory that I carry or at least come close.

oneounceload · July 14, 2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

all max loads will do is induce flinch

Exactly right, doesn't matter if it's shotgun, rifle or pistol.....the human body does NOT like recoil, and anyone who says they enjoy getting thumped will regret it later in life

Farmland · July 14, 2009, 09:03 PM

What I don't understand is why some people recommend starting with a single press. I personally started with a Dillion 650 and used my first single stage last month.

I do find the progressive less confusing after it is set up and can't think of one thing that would make it less desirable to start with.

You might argue mistakes but you would make the same mistake on either press. For example if I set the dies wrong in a progressive and make 100 rounds I would have set the dies wrong in a single stage and made the same 100 mistakes. I find it much easier to accidentally double charge on a single press. Primer loading is about the same though I have only loaded a primer upside down on a hand held primer device.

I don't rush my progressive like many of the videos you see so individual care for each cartridge is there.

I like the single stage press and I find it very nice for my 25-06 and 44 mag because I load in very small quantities. To be honest I didn't want to invest in the conversion kits, etc so since I was given the single stage press it was a cheap option. Now what I would really like is another two single stage presses so I can just set the dies up and make a run without changing dies.

Cost is relative to what you want to do and how much you shoot. I found it in my case to be more expensive because I ended up shooting far more than I ever would if I just bought ammunition.

Now if you really want to go cheap by the Lee Hand held reloading kit and polish you brass with steel wool, add a drill and your automated.

http://wonderwolfs.blogspot.com/2009...eld-press.html

Anticonn · July 14, 2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Anticonn "Olympic runners that train at high elevation,"
That is a good idea if your an Olympic level shooter, but for shooters that are starting out, all max loads will do is induce flinch, another reason that starting out with 22's is so much better. You can see the mistakes you’re making with the gun as it fires instead of having to guess.
I do agree that with carry guns for SD I shoot only loads that equal the factory that I carry or at least come close.

I'm not really a beginning shooter, I shot my first gun 17 years ago at the age of 8, handguns followed shortly, and my father made sure I knew where the guns in the house were and how to use every one of them (barring only his black powder collection). I spent some time away from guns, and never got into them as I would have liked in my youth, so I'm playing a little catch-up.

I've put a little over 1,000 magnum loads through my SP101 at this point, punishing as they may be I've enjoyed every single one

Anyway, is there any reason to not go with a turret press for a first reloading setup? Seems like a pretty comfortable middle-ground between progressive and single-stage, and the cost over a single stage is not significant at all.

Nosparetime · July 14, 2009, 10:14 PM

a 650 or even a 550 cost enough that you may not see the reason to buy one to save money.

The original poster was wanting to justify the cost of getting into reloading. It is cheaper to start with a single stage.

Most anyone (but not everyone!!) can safely learn to load on a progressive press.

A turret press should be ok. See if you can find a used one.

Two days ago I got a call from a friend. One of his friends had just blown up a Glock 30 with reloaded ammo. I mean blown into pieces. The ammo had been loaded by his brother on a 1050 Dillon. He has another 5000 rds loaded. He brother is a new reloader. An example of why some people should not reload especially for others.

When I first started loading 357. 1974. I only loaded full blown magnum ammo. It was hard on my shooting and hard on my gun. I learned later that it is more fun to shoot lighter loads. A good reason to reload. I practice with full power loads for concealed carry and self defense. I also use factory ammo for legal reasons,

Farmland · July 15, 2009, 09:19 AM

A progressive load would fall into his budget then. I just giving options in the budget range of $450.

Dillon Square Deal 'B' $350
Square Deal B Auto-Indexing Reloader

4 Station Progressive Loader
Station 1) resize/deprime
Station 2) prime/powder drop/flare
Station 3) seat
Station 4) crimp
Loads only the listed handgun cartridges Automatic Indexing shellplate Auto Powder / Priming Systems Uses special dies Manually fed cases and bullets Typical loading Rate is about 300-500 Rounds per Hour Comes Complete With Factory Adjusted Loading Dies Ready-to-Use, machine set up with proper primer size & shellplate installed.
Lifetime "No-B.S."

onthejon55 · July 15, 2009, 06:45 PM

If you buy as much used stuff as possible from ebay you can save quite a bit of money.

oneounceload · July 15, 2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

I would have set the dies wrong in a single stage and made the same 100 mistakes. I find it much easier to accidentally double charge on a single press.

The single stage press has nothing to do with charging the cases - that is done separately. I have been using a single stage press for years - used to have a Dillon 650 - it never could seat primers reliably; that would stop the process and take a while to correct. Loading on a single stage, from the OP's standpoint, will be cheaper to get started and will let him learn all of the steps easily so he can avoid mistakes and problems down the road.

You don't start a new driver in a F1 race car, why start a new person with a complicated progressive press?

July 13, 2009, 12:42 AM	#26
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	If you can afford it at this time get it, but you won't need it until you have some empties. All it does is pretty up the cases. You could also wash/rinse the cases to get the dirt off. You could easily reload them a couple of times before getting the tumbler. Basically, you should have one eventually but it is not required to get started. I don't have experience with Frankford tumblers but there is another thread here about tumblers. Frankford does not seems to have a very good reputation for durability. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

July 13, 2009, 11:57 AM	#29
jimgiven Member Join Date: May 13, 2009 Location: Peoples' Republic of Corzinistan Posts: 20	Anticon....i have the Cabelas ver....works great. Over 10k tumbled with no probs. Jim __________________ Best, Jim Given Take your kids hunting before you have to hunt for your kids!!!

July 13, 2009, 09:53 AM	#27
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	I started off with the RCBS kit (Rock chucker supreme press) and a set of carbide dies. It came with almost everything I needed. I already had a pair of dial calipers. I read the book twice, bought a Lyman guide and read that. I really love this set-up and reloading. The only problem I have is the seating AND crimping in one step, so until I become much more proficient, I just do the seating first then run them through a second time to crimp them. Fun Fun Fun I have not found a better way to spend a rainy afternoon since I became disabled.

July 13, 2009, 04:00 PM	#30
Nosparetime Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 100	I have been loading for 40 years. Everybody should start with a single stage press. Make sure and get carbide dies. I have used Lee, RCBS, Hornady and Dillon. They all are good products if you take care to keep them clean and make sure they don't draw moisture. Read a good reloading manual. Midway used to sell a small tumbler that is a good starting tumbler. I use 2 large Dillon tumblers (I think they are the best). I use ground walnut shells for really dirty cases.(I put a little Brasso in the walnut shells ((I am sure there will be people that don't like that)) Do not use rouge treated media. I use crushed corn media with a little liquid car wax mixed in for a polish. You will shoot more when you reload. Use a good hard cast bullet (158gr SWC) and load medium powered loads. Raineer Ballistic or Berry Bullets for a good plated bullet. Hodgon Clays or Accurate Arms #7 would be good powders. You do not need nor do I recommend max loads for practice. Eventually you will want a progressive loader. I recommend Dillon products. I use 2 1050 and a 550. My single stage is a RCBS rockchucker. Your cases should not be sticking with a clean gun. The suggestion to hone is a good one. (lightly!!)

July 13, 2009, 04:26 PM	#31
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I started reloading last winter and I'm loving it. Yeah, it can save some money no doubt. And I don't shoot nearly as much as some folks here do. I think you have the economics thought out pretty well. But there are some other really good things about it as well: It gives you a lot of load versatility. You want a very mild 44 mag load for plinking? No problem, just find a load in a manual that will give you the velocity/weight combo that you want. Others here have already discussed the potential for better accuracy and that is true. Like somone said earlier about the 45 Colt situation, it got to the point here where you simply couldn't find any of it for any price. Not a problem (once I had the brass anyway). In my case it also gives me great enjoyment during the winter and spring. During the summer I do a lot of shooting, maybe not a whole lot of time to reload. During the fall I'm busy with hunting so I doubt I will reload a whole lot. But during the winter, the days are short and cold and I spend a lot of nights with nothimg much to do. Springtime is hit and miss for weather in regards to outdoor stuff. Those are the times when reloading is the most fun. Load up 100 rounds with different powders and bullets and when there's finally a nice day go out and shoot them and decide which load you like the best. Finally, it gives you a chance to sit around with the old white haired geezers at the gun store and weigh in with your opinions regarding the best powders, bullets, primers, presses, etc.

July 14, 2009, 07:43 PM	#33
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Anticonn "Olympic runners that train at high elevation," That is a good idea if your an Olympic level shooter, but for shooters that are starting out, all max loads will do is induce flinch, another reason that starting out with 22's is so much better. You can see the mistakes you’re making with the gun as it fires instead of having to guess. I do agree that with carry guns for SD I shoot only loads that equal the factory that I carry or at least come close.

July 14, 2009, 09:03 PM	#35
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	What I don't understand is why some people recommend starting with a single press. I personally started with a Dillion 650 and used my first single stage last month. I do find the progressive less confusing after it is set up and can't think of one thing that would make it less desirable to start with. You might argue mistakes but you would make the same mistake on either press. For example if I set the dies wrong in a progressive and make 100 rounds I would have set the dies wrong in a single stage and made the same 100 mistakes. I find it much easier to accidentally double charge on a single press. Primer loading is about the same though I have only loaded a primer upside down on a hand held primer device. I don't rush my progressive like many of the videos you see so individual care for each cartridge is there. I like the single stage press and I find it very nice for my 25-06 and 44 mag because I load in very small quantities. To be honest I didn't want to invest in the conversion kits, etc so since I was given the single stage press it was a cheap option. Now what I would really like is another two single stage presses so I can just set the dies up and make a run without changing dies. Cost is relative to what you want to do and how much you shoot. I found it in my case to be more expensive because I ended up shooting far more than I ever would if I just bought ammunition. Now if you really want to go cheap by the Lee Hand held reloading kit and polish you brass with steel wool, add a drill and your automated. http://wonderwolfs.blogspot.com/2009...eld-press.html

July 14, 2009, 10:14 PM	#37
Nosparetime Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 100	a 650 or even a 550 cost enough that you may not see the reason to buy one to save money. The original poster was wanting to justify the cost of getting into reloading. It is cheaper to start with a single stage. Most anyone (but not everyone!!) can safely learn to load on a progressive press. A turret press should be ok. See if you can find a used one. Two days ago I got a call from a friend. One of his friends had just blown up a Glock 30 with reloaded ammo. I mean blown into pieces. The ammo had been loaded by his brother on a 1050 Dillon. He has another 5000 rds loaded. He brother is a new reloader. An example of why some people should not reload especially for others. When I first started loading 357. 1974. I only loaded full blown magnum ammo. It was hard on my shooting and hard on my gun. I learned later that it is more fun to shoot lighter loads. A good reason to reload. I practice with full power loads for concealed carry and self defense. I also use factory ammo for legal reasons,

July 15, 2009, 09:19 AM	#38
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	A progressive load would fall into his budget then. I just giving options in the budget range of $450. Dillon Square Deal 'B' $350 Square Deal B Auto-Indexing Reloader 4 Station Progressive Loader Station 1) resize/deprime Station 2) prime/powder drop/flare Station 3) seat Station 4) crimp Loads only the listed handgun cartridges Automatic Indexing shellplate Auto Powder / Priming Systems Uses special dies Manually fed cases and bullets Typical loading Rate is about 300-500 Rounds per Hour Comes Complete With Factory Adjusted Loading Dies Ready-to-Use, machine set up with proper primer size & shellplate installed. Lifetime "No-B.S."

July 15, 2009, 06:45 PM	#39
onthejon55 Junior member Join Date: October 23, 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 411	If you buy as much used stuff as possible from ebay you can save quite a bit of money.