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Old October 31, 2015, 07:20 PM   #1
coyotewsm
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Pillar bedding vs glass bedding

How do they differ and which one is better?
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Old October 31, 2015, 09:11 PM   #2
BoogieMan
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When you pillar bed you also glass bed in most cases. Midwayusa.Com has some great videos showing the process.
In most cases the pillars are aluminum round blocks that are glassed or epoxies into the stock to reduce the amount of compresion on the stock. The glass bedding supports the rest of the receiver.
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Old October 31, 2015, 09:31 PM   #3
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If I were only going to do one it would be pillars. Glass bedding can range from just a dab of bedding material in the recoil mortise up to full length bedding from the tang to the tip of the forend.

I have several McMillan stocks that came with pillars installed. They shot just fine simply bolted to the rifles. But I did use bedding compound to ensure a tight fit on the recoil lug. I couldn't tell a bit of difference in accuracy, but it probably does ensure consistency when reassembling the rifle after removing the stock for cleaning.
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Old November 1, 2015, 10:57 AM   #4
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I have Winchester model 70 that came pillar bedded from the factory. I was curious what the difference was which is better and if I could improve upon what I have to gain better accuracy.
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Old November 1, 2015, 07:06 PM   #5
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Good tutelage and products sold here.

http://www.scorehi.com/
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Old November 1, 2015, 08:51 PM   #6
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When I am finished,I want the barrel centered in the free floated barrel channel,at the correct height.

I want the receiver resting fully stabilized,with no strains being placed on it.

I want th stock sealed and stabilized.

Assuming the stock pretty much holds the barreled receiver pointed in the right direction to begin with.
I start with a pillar bedding job.
I do not relieve the rest of the stock at this point.The original bedding is the "Master" for the pillar bedding.The pillars areallowed to float in the epoxy to find their relaxed,unstrained location.

That complete,the pillarsare now the "master" to hold the receiver in the stock.

So now I cut the clearance for the epoxy to do the second part of the bedding.

Before the epoxy is applied,the barreled receiever ,when installed to the pillars,floats in air,nothing but the pillars touch.

Vinyl tape is applied to the barrel ,multiple layes,to provide at least .020 or .030 free float after glass bedding.

Before applying epoxy,I make sure a strip of abrasive cloth will freely pass beteween the taped barrel and the stock barrel channel,like the old "dollar bill" test.

Then,with all the release and clay and tape work done.I glass bed to the pillars.

Note,To keep from beng overwhelmed,I do the trigger guard/mag box as a separate op before doing the barrel receiver.
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Old November 4, 2015, 08:37 PM   #7
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Not sure that really helped me hibc.
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Old November 4, 2015, 09:58 PM   #8
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In my opinion, you never do one without doing the other.
Having said that, aluminum block bedding is my preferred method.
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Old November 5, 2015, 02:13 PM   #9
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Neither is better. Just a different way of doing the same thing.
Pillar is the action sitting on wee Al tubes set in the stock, usually around the action screws, and not actually touching the stock. It was a way of replacing stock strength in early foam filled synthetic stocks so the screws could be torqued. Really good article about it here. https://www.mcmillanusa.com/pillar-b...rticle-part-i/
Glass bedding is using a compound to make the action and stock more of a one piece thing. Keeps the action for moving in the stock.
The latest thing is reynolds357's aluminum block bedding. Same thing, done differently.
Any of 'em do one thing extremely well. They pretty much guarantee consistency. Even a low end rifle will shoot more consistent groups. Won't necessarily be smaller though.
A free floated barrel guarantees absolutely nothing. Some rifles like it. Some just do not. One has to try it to find out of your rifle likes it or not. Isn't a big deal to put a pressure point in if your's does not.
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Old November 6, 2015, 05:02 AM   #10
HiBC
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Coyote WSM,sorry.
IMO,for me, What I end up with is a fully bedded rifle with pillar bushings installed.I stage the process so I only fight one battle at a time.I can simply epoxy in some pillars to begin.Once I have that,the receiver has a "home" to return to.I can then remove the material lfrom the stock for a full bed job.

Mr O Heir,I agree that its always somewhat of a mystery ,what a rifle will do regarding free floating.I agree history proves sometimes a pressure point works.

I go back to the the threaded joint between the barrel and receiver.If the face of the receiver ring is flat and true,if the smith does a proper job of joining the barrel and receiver so they are sound and stable..
With the quality of stress relieving in the custom barrels we get today...such as a Kreiger, my bet would be on the free floated rifle.

In the AR type rifles,if rules allow,those building rifles for accuracy build free floated.

A free float will have the advantage for consistency,offhand,with sling pressure,etc.
And of course,with moisture and temp changes,fully bedded rifles are subject to certain "dynamics" in the stock.

Now,something like My Rem 513T,with one screw holding the receiver bbl in the stock,and the bbl held in the Receiver by two pins? Yes,a little pressure will hold all the wobble to one side.

A fencepost in a loose hole can be stabilized with a guy wire or two.The slop is taken up by pressure.Thats most of forend tip pressure.

I also understand that on a rifle like an SMLE ,there was a tradition of remedies to make them shoot,and shoot well.Amazing!!.Same with a Military rifle like a 1903A3.There was a spec for forend tip pressure for match and sniper rifles.

But,as a formula for predictable, consistent accurate rifles,A trued action ,well fitted to a quality barrel,properly bedded and free floated probably won't need business cards stuffed in the barrel channel.

Last edited by HiBC; November 6, 2015 at 05:12 AM.
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Old November 6, 2015, 09:04 PM   #11
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A pressure point does not ever help a properly bedded rifle with a quality stock shoot better.
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Old November 7, 2015, 03:14 AM   #12
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Amen reynolds, and hibc, good post.
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Old November 7, 2015, 04:26 AM   #13
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Coyote WSM,I did think of a little more to answer your question.

There is a pure "pillar bedding" that is one answer for receivers like the XP-100,Rem 600 and Model 7,etc.

A lot of these are made into light recoiling rifles shooting light bullets.

The receivers are made of round tubing,some steel is machined away,then they are heat treated.Some warpage occurs.
The recoil lug is essentially a shaped washer trapped between the barrel and receiver.
For a true pillar bed,the receiver only rests on the two pillar posts and the recoil lug.The rest is relieved.
For any flat bottom receiver,like an M-70 or Mauser,a true pillar bed gives up some of the advantages of the flat bottom action.In particular resistance to the torque from revving up the bullet.
Pillar bedding is not a great choice for these actions.However,pillars as part of a full bed job offers advantages.
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Old November 7, 2015, 09:13 AM   #14
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A custom pillar I made from aluminium barstock, is the reason I get better consistency from my m70.
It took countless hours honing that pillar by hand until I had 100% contact under that reciever, and then Devon plastic Steel bedded the recoil lug.
It's a factory synthetic that was too flimsy in the forearm, and some aluminium tubing and JBWRLD cured that nonsense, and now the rifle is capable of shooting handle ads into a nickel sized group at 300 yds......I'd say both pillars and Devon will make a difference if done correctly.
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Old November 7, 2015, 11:44 AM   #15
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Can't argue with success.Sounds like a job well done.
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Old November 7, 2015, 11:55 AM   #16
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I hope you are understanding all this great detail.

Pillar bedding is simply where 2 pillars are put in the stock where the action screws go through to hold a firm torque. This torque allows a solid mounting of the steel action to soft wood.

Regular bedding bonds with the stock to form a perfectly fit "oversized washer" to support action torque. It also improves the recoil support of the stock reducing the need Done alone, it improve action holding quite a bit, but doing both is still much better.
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Old November 7, 2015, 01:31 PM   #17
coyotewsm
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Like I said my rifle was pillar bedded at the factory. I don't know if it was what you called true pillar bedding or some other method of pillar bedding. The name thing I wanted to get out of this post was, is their anyway to improve on what I already have? Is there something more I can have done to the reciever? It's already free floated. Would a new barrel help? Typically my rifle shooting a 3 shot group at 100 yards will put 2 of the bullets touching but always seems to throw one.
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Old November 8, 2015, 05:36 PM   #18
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Glass bedding will stabilize the interaction between the action and a wood stock. While it may not solve your flier problems it will make the rifle more consistent from one shooting session to another. The pillars will also give the action a more stable platform and keep the stock from crushing over time. For me, doing one without the other is just an incomplete effort. Now if your stock is some form of plastic then I just don't know.

You may want to do a little research (if you haven't already) on what works for a Winchester rifle, some brands don't like to have their barrels floated.
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Old November 8, 2015, 08:33 PM   #19
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So if what your saying is even though it's pillar bedded I could go back and have someone glass bed it?
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Old November 8, 2015, 08:44 PM   #20
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I'm saying that I would glass bed it even with the pillars installed, but my guess is that others will disagree. You've already got the pillars installed so bedding it should be quite easy.
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Old November 8, 2015, 09:19 PM   #21
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I may check into that. I never knew that you could do both. Is there anything that will help the flier problem?
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Old November 9, 2015, 07:46 AM   #22
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Yes, a glass bed job over a factory installed pillar job should improve the action connection to the rifle.

What rifle?

Will this help fliers depends on the cause of the fliers. Depending on the gun, best results seem to come with bedding the action, the lug and 1-3" in front of the lug(chamber area). Then with a factory tube, the next step would be to add touch point to the barrel at the tip of the stock. Shoot it without this barrel touch point first.

Then, if still not ok for you, it is probably time to either recrown or put money into fitting a new barrel.
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