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May 11, 2007, 02:00 PM | #26 |
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The grand old man of the gun culture, Col. Townsend Whelen, once wrote an article, Just a Little Bit Better and concluded that it was not worth selling a good .270 or .30-06 to get a .280 but if you were starting from scratch, it had a lot going for it.
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May 11, 2007, 09:44 PM | #27 |
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Finally!
Now we are getting some responders that don't have IQ's and shoe sizes that are interchangeable.
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May 11, 2007, 10:04 PM | #28 |
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Both the 270 and the 280 are good rounds. What the 30-06 and 308 have going for them that the two previously mentioned rounds don't, is inexpensive practice with Federal American Eagle or Winchester white box ammo. That probably doesn't mean much if you reload, but for someone like me who doesn't and doesn't want to, its a big consideration.
I don't think the 270 or the 280 offer anything over the 308 or 30-06 but that certainly doesn't detract from their usefulness or popularity. |
November 13, 2015, 01:47 AM | #29 |
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I've seen them for sale. Only one thing wrong with .280, and that is scary high ammo prices. If Privi Partizan, Monarch, or Sellier & Bernet started cranking for $17.00/20, I'd adopt it instantly.
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November 13, 2015, 06:51 PM | #30 |
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I was actually considering a 280 for my next hunting rifle I also considered a 7mm08. But due to ammo availability for both of these cartridges I crossed them off the list. I've always liked the 270 and since I can pick ammo for from almost any corner store that will probably be my next cartridge.
Just a thought on this imo Winchester has always had a 1 up on Remington when it comes to cartridge development 270 vs 280 6mm vs 243 308 vs 7mm08. I'm sure the list goes on. |
November 13, 2015, 07:01 PM | #31 |
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Another cartridge that is almost identical to the .280, both in terms of case dimensions and ballistic performance, is the 7x64 Brenneke (Europe's 30-06, in terms of popularity and use). I have a Ruger Model 77 MKII chambered in this cartridge and it's become one of my favorite rifles due to its accuracy, relatively flat trajectory and moderate recoil.
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November 13, 2015, 10:13 PM | #32 |
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Ernst, welcome to the forum. However, do you realize that you've awakened a thread that has been dead since 2007?
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November 13, 2015, 11:34 PM | #33 |
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I made a chart of 7mm cartridges
Comparing 7mm cartridges
assume: a) 26" barrel b) Hornady 7MM .284 DIA 162GR BIG GAME POLY CARB TIP 28452 bullets and moly coated them Quickload and Quicktarget at close to optimum powder choice and 65kpsi: 7mmT/CU ........................26.1 gr H335 2330 fps -471 yards 7-30 Waters ........................30 gr W748 2456 fps -395 yards 7mmBR ...........................31.2 gr W748 2510 fps -360 yards 7mm IHMSA .......................40.2 gr Re17 2704 fps -247 yards 7mm-08 .......................40.6 gr IMR4895 2789 fps -198 yards 7mm-08AckleyImproved .........43.6 gr Re15 2833 fps -171 yards 7x57mm ...........................44.6 gr Re15 2843 fps -165 yards 7x57mmAckleyImproved .........46.4 gr Re15 2873 fps -150 yards 284Win .........................50.0 gr IMR4350 2890 fps -172 yards 280Rem ............................53.5 gr H414 2961 fps -152 yards 7mm Rem short action ultra mag 55.5 gr Re17 3015 fps -73 yards 280RemAckleyImproved ........57 gr IMR4350 3019 fps -71 yards 7mmRemMag ......................68.2 gr Re22 3129 fps -15 yards 7mmRem ultra mag ............83.3 gr IMR7828 3130 fps -15 yards 7mmWeathMag ....................71.8 gr Re22 3170 fps +7 yards 7mmSTW .............82.2 gr Ramshot Magnum 3158 fps 0 yards As you can see there is no free lunch. The more powder, the more power. But the 280 for a lot of reasons, seems to be near the corner of diminishing returns.
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November 14, 2015, 01:50 AM | #34 |
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I was going to buy a .280 Remington last month. The ammo price was horrifying. I think I'll get a 7mm, .303 British, or .270 Winchester instead.
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November 14, 2015, 09:32 AM | #35 |
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Over the years I've owned several 280's. If you compare it to 30-06 and 270 it offers a small advantage over both, at least on paper. One little fact that many overlook is that the velocity you get at the muzzle is not important. It is the velocity you get at impact on game that matters. There are a lot of very good 7mm bullets that will maintain speed down range very well. The 270 offers basically nothing and you have to get into bullets over 200 gr to do it in 30-06.
With 140-160 gr bullets a 280 may not look any better at the muzzle. But look down range 300-500 yards and compare the speeds and energy they offer to similar weights in 270 and 30-06 and you'll see where the 280 has an edge. Ultimately I decided 280 was just too close to 30-06 performance and I owned several 30-06 rifles with history that weren't going to be sold. Couldn't justify having both 30-06 and 280. If someone hand loads, and if they just want to be different from the 30-06 and 270 crowd I think it is an excellent cartridge. |
November 15, 2015, 07:44 PM | #36 |
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The 7X57MM also known as the 7MM Mauser was a great favorite of big game hunters in Africa and India in the early 1900s. WDM "Karamojo" Bell killed hundreds of Elephant with the cartridge, mostly with brain shots using the 175 grain cupro-nickel solid bullet at around 2400 FPS....but, Bell was an extraordinary shot who played around with his rifles so much that they almost became like another appendage.
The .280 Remington is also a 7MM (.284 caliber) and it is more powerful than the 7X57. It is my opinion that in capable hands, using bullets/loads matched to the game, the .280 will handle anything North America has to offer... But so will the 30-06, 270 and 308.....where you hit them, with a properly constructed bullet, is more important than the cartridge as long as it has the power to reach the vitals. |
November 15, 2015, 11:39 PM | #37 |
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As you know the 280 was Remingtons market place response years ago to Winchesters very popular 270 caliber. But the 280 just never seemed to gain any market place respect even though its a bit faster and has a much better bullet weight selection. As I see it. The 280 will always have a following. But no where's near the amount the venerable 270 has.
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November 16, 2015, 08:57 AM | #38 |
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My contribution to the "un-dead thread". My Rem 700 .280 is the most boring rifle I own, it has a Buris 3-9 scope, and Bell & Carlson Synthetic stock. It doesnt shift POI, it is relatively easy to shoot, and when it goes bang stuff dies. I seldom hunt with it any more though. Ammo prices are not a concern to me as it has never seen a factory load since I bought it used years ago. I never wanted a .270 or 30-06 simply because every body I knew seemed to have one or the other.
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November 16, 2015, 09:54 AM | #39 |
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The 280 is a great cartridge for any deer up to moose included. Forget about the caliber superiority peeing matches that are always added as extra commentary either ask or not asked. 280 will do everything the 270 and 30-06 will do for big game hunting. I recommend being prepared to reload for it if you choose the 280 to keep cost down and versatility up.
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November 16, 2015, 09:56 AM | #40 |
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Clark,
I don't understand your table. What do the yards numbers measure? |
November 16, 2015, 02:22 PM | #41 |
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We all know J O'Conner's favorite was the 270. I have been a fan of O'Conner for years... He once remarked, when discussing long range shots at game, that he considered 300 yards a "fur piece" I have never heard that description in those words ever before or after but I know what he means...
He also said that an African outfitter once told him that the differences in cartridges is mostly "in the minds of the hunters" Then there was old Elmer Keith who once made the remark in an old Guns and Ammo mag that he considered the 30-06 with 200 grain bullets to be a fair varmint round!...I don't think he said that tongue in cheek either. As you can see, even hunters with vast experience have different opinions. |
November 16, 2015, 02:41 PM | #42 |
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When I decided to build an expressly built just for me rifle, one of the things I had to ponder was, "What cartridge will it be built for?" I already had several 30-06s and .270s so that left them out. I already had three 7x57s, two factories and one custom so which way to go. Finally I decided on the .280 Rem. Recoil is definitely lest than my .270s and 06s but the rifle came out somewhat heavier than the others. Accuracy with Remington factory ammo is not all that good at 1.5" butI plan to use reloads anyway. The bullet I'm working with is the Nosler 150 gr. ABLR which has proven to be rather finicky in my 7x57s. Playing with the seating depth in the .280 had shown promise. I have the loads worked up and am just waiting for the weather to clear up. Raining and very windy. The preliminary test with the .280 looked good so I'll be setting up the same type test for the 7x57s. I'm pushing the test at 2800 FPS which duplicates the factory load but have worked up to 3010 FPS. After I find a sweet spot I'll up the velocity to see if it holds up.
Paul B.
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November 16, 2015, 09:04 PM | #43 |
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If you look at the 280 by itself, it's an excellent cartridge for all around North American hunting.
If you look at it relative to the 270 or 30-06, there isn't enough difference between the 280 and the other two to justify the cost and poor availability of ammo. No animal lost to a 270 hit would be taken with a hit in the same place with a 280. Which is why the 270 and the 30-06 are perennial top sellers and the 280 is fading away. It's not that it isn't a great cartridge, because it is, but that there isn't enough difference to justify people bothering with it. |
November 17, 2015, 06:32 AM | #44 |
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Back in 1990, my hunting buddy and I were drawn for elk licenses in NE Wyoming. I brought my .308 carbine shooting 180 grain core-lokts. My partner took his custom Browning in 280 Improved featuring a 24 inch barrel. His handloads nearly replicate 7mm MAG ballistics!
My buddy shot a big bodied 5 X 5 bull and the animal toppled over within 100 yards of impact. His mushroomed 140 grain Nosler partition bullet was recovered from just under the hide and it looked exactly like the magazine pictures. I shot a tender eating spike bull with my .308 carbine. Same results. A dead animal taken with a 150 yard shot through the chest organs. Did the 280 Improved "kill better" than my .308? No, but it has much flatter trajectory for truly long shots. 280 Improved is a keeper! Jack
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November 19, 2015, 12:40 PM | #45 | |
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Quote:
The yardage is normalized to the 7mmSTW. The yardage is how far a 7mmSTW would shoot before the bullet slowed down to the muzzle velocity of the cartridge in question. Example: The 7mmSTW has a muzzle velocity of 3158 fps, while the 280 Rem has a muzzle velocity of 2961 fps. It will take 152 yards for that bullet to slow down from 3158 fps to 2961 fps. That does not mean the 7mmSTW necessarily has 152 yards more range. The problem is usually hitting something, not how much energy the bullet still has.
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