why do glocks blow up?

[denfoote]

I wonder if most if not all these poor owners of KB'ed Glocks disobeyed the no lead bullet rule. I have a G30, and I have no fear of a KB, because I shoot only factory loaded jacketed ammo.

[Dr45ACP]

I agree with Ironballs -- the way the question is asked does seem to be derogatory...

As far as I know, and of course I could be wrong, there are no statistics to show Glocks blow up and more or less than other guns... when used with factory ammo as recommended.

Maybe a better way to have asked would be "Do Glocks blow up more?"... to which my answer would be a polite, "No".

[VonFatman]

STEYR M-357,
You said in your post...

"Why do you think 99% of all Kabooms are with Glock 40's?"

I'm curious, who did this "study". And where are the verifiable results to which you refer.

Not a flame, I've just have never seen such a report. Didn't know one existed.

If it doesn't exist, perhaps your "opinion" should be qualified?

By the way, I agree with you, the Steyr is THE .40 semi-auto. I don't own one, but have read a lot about the gun and if I ever buy another .40, it will be a Styer M.

[Walt Sherrill]

One reason for so many Glock ka'booms is that there are so darned many GLOCKS!! (I suspect they make up a disproportionate number of the handguns bought in America, for example, over the past 10 years.)

There have been a lot of 1911 kabooms, too -- and for the same reason: unsupported cases in the .40 and .45 caliber cartridge.

In the few cases I'm familiar with, the problem was invariably bad ammo: reloads, or reloads bought at a gun show. And in the two cases where I know the shooters, the guns were distroyed but the shooter wasn't harmed.

Don't shoot lead, and don't shoot reloads from people you don't know...

[STEYR M-357]

What I meant to imply was that overwhelming majority of Glock Kabooms are with the .40

If ammo is the cause of the Kaboom with the .40, then certainly the other calibers would be just as likely to Kaboom, right?

Why no 9mm Kabooms with the Glock?

Is 9mm ammo made with higher quality controls?

To blame it on "lead bullets" and "bad ammo" is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

People don't want to admit the possibility of the flaw in the design of the 40 caliber Glock chamber.

The .40 chamber is thin
The 9mm chamber is thick

The .40 chamber is unsupported
The 9mm chamber is supported

The .40 Kabooms (rare)
The 9mm doesn't kaboom (never)

40 ammo is made the same as 9mm ammo

It doesn't take brain surgeon to see where the problem lies.

Anyway the original question was "Why do Glock blow up?"

[9x45]

Same reason as any other gun, overpressure. Actually Glock 45's get KB'd along with 40's.

From MarkCo, "This post might make some people mad, but that is okay. Here goes. First, I work as a forensics engineer (mechanical) and, professionally, I investigate failed products as an expert witness. I have conducted extensive testing on the issue of KBs in Glocks and especially the Lead issue. I have examined 14 blown Glocks to date (including one of my own). I have tested thousands of rounds in Glock barrels, aftermarket barrels and polygonally rifled pressure barrels. There are several factors at issue with Glock KBs. When related to the .40 it is a high pressure round and hot-rodding it will cause damage and injury. Heavier bullets are more likely to increase pressure due to reloading practices and quitre possibly handling of loaded ammo. Also the polygonally rifled (Glock) barrels do lead excessively causing increased pressure. I have conducted pressure testing with instrumentation and the pressure ramps up with each successive round of lead down the barrel. Lowering your velocity can actually increase the leading rate with some bullets. The laser Cast is not the answer either. It too leads, it has more gas cutting and may appear to not lead quite as much but you are still decreasing the cross-sectional area of the bore by "soldering up the bore". Now the solutions. Either use plated bullets ($12 more per 1K) or buy an aftermarket conventionally rifled barrel ($70-$200). Also, my test data has been confirmed by Glock reps and armorers and accepted into court as fact! Points to take with you. The 40 is a high pressure round to start with. Glocks and Lead lead to higher pressures. Heavy lead bullets at pretty high velocities accounted for KBs in 11 of the 14 Glocks I have examined. I personally have aftermarket barrels for lead but use Berry's plated bullets in Glock barrels almost exclusively. I avoid the heavier bullets in my reloads and in factory ammo (definately no 200 grainers in the 40 for me in a Glock). I shoot Cor-bons 150 grain in my G27 for a carry round. Feel free to e-mail me if you want more info. Now for the other 3 blown Glocks. One was a G30 shooting a jacketed bullet. Got a double charge of Bullseye that was near max anyway. Case rupture split the frame, blew the mag out and sheared off one of the four guide rails. Barrel was undamaged and is still in use today. Shooter had a slight abrasion on his strong hand thumb and a blood blister on the palm (from the cracked frame) and a wet pair of shorts. Another one was a G19 that had approximately 1500 rounds of commercial lead fired through it. Near chamber bore dimension due to leading was 0.323 inches after the KB. Cracked the frame, split the chamber horizontally for a depth of about 0.5 inches. Slide assembly lifted up and jammed bending 3 of the four slide rails but no breakage of the frame. Glock owns that one now. The other was a G22 (this one was mine, about 8 years ago) shooting 155 grain lead (about 16.5 BHN that was supposed to be 22 BHN) at moderate speeds. About 700 rounds fired since last cleaned. Failure similar to other lead and Glock failures except with a 155 grain slug. Slightly cracked chamber, one cracked rail and one bent rail. Glock determined excessive leading as cause of failure. Glock replaced the gun. Interesting thing to note here, 14 blown Glocks and the worst injury besides soiled shorts and bruised confidences, a blood blister and a sprained finger here and there. Not one slide separation and not one grenaded chamber. Can not say that for other blown guns I have examined. A blown Beretta or a blown 1911 is sure to severly injured. Glocks are very strong indeed. I have seen a couple of other blown Glocks but did not have the chance to examine them. One of these was reportedly a .40 (G23 belonging to a Cop) shooting Fiocchi FMJ departmental practice ammo. Somehow the remaining loaded rounds in the mag had the bullets seated 0.11 inches deeper than the rounds left in the box. It was the 3rd round in the mag that blew and the cases from the prevoius 2 were buldged extremely. The case is in litigation. Good Shooting, MarkCO "

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hp?threadid=82

[VonFatman]

STEYR M-357,
Fair enough! Conclusions and opinions are what fuel forums.
I agree, the .40 cal. Glocks have gotten some poor reports and that the gun was a re-designed 9mm "made it fit" the .40 caliber. Slip a .40 round into the Glock's chamber and you don't see the support your Steyr shows you. I also agree the 9mm Glock barrel "looks" stronger to my uneducated eye.

Two points. First, Walt's comment regarding the huge numbers of Glocks is correct. With numbers comes higher numbers of "KB's". That seems pretty straight forward to me.

Second, I will never deny that the "opportunity" for a KB is greater when firing "hi-PSI ammo" in an unsupported chamber (the .40 Glocks ARE of the Browning design and ARE unsupported....the Glock .45 is also unsupported but is generally not shot at PSI's which lead to failure).

However, in my opinion, a MAJOR point in Glock's favor is it's overall brute strength (as illustrated in 9x45's detailed post). If I ever have a Kb...I hope it's while I'm shooting one of my Glocks. They seem tough enough to support you when the [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] hit's the fan.

I appreciate and respect your comments.

[Scooter2]

Glocks can fire out of battery also. This could possibly account for many of the blown case failures.

[STEYR M-357]

I own a Glock 33 and a Glock 21

Having said that, I would not be "afraid" to own a .40 caliber Glock.

The chances of a Kaboom are pretty remote.

It is fun arguing back and forth etc in these forums.

About the only thing I hate about the Glock is the squishy trigger.

[VonFatman]

Oh no! No argument! Ahhh!
10-4 on the trigger...
I even have a couple Glocks with
the "3.5 lb" trigger and
can't seem to fall in love
with them either. The "pros"
on Glock Talk suggest some
sanding and other stuff to
improve the pull. Mine are
all stock factory.
In my opinion, my H&K Tactical
with it's stock "match trigger"
is pretty sweet.
It's funny, after you get a
few guns, you start thinking
about triggers and stuff that
never ment squat when you
got the gun!

[private_idaho]

I know this topic gets beat to death, but I saw my first Glock kB this weekend and thought I would share the experience. The kB occurred using factory ammo in a G21 (.45). In retrospect, perhaps we should have seen it coming.

I was at Front Sight in Nevada, taking their 4 day defensive handgun course (which I highly recommend, btw. I was very impressed.) One of my fellow students was shooting American Ammo through his G21. I was on the line next to him on several occasions and noticed he was having some jacket separation issues. After close-range shots there would be one nice, round hole, and several smaller shrapnel-type holes. On the fourth and final day of the class, we were doing timed presentation and firing drills from various distances. Since we were all firing in the same very short time limits, I didn't even hear it blow, though the shooter was only 2 students down the line. I was conducting my after action drills when I noticed the gun on the ground and the student hurrying back to the back of the range. I reholstered my own pistol and noticed my hands were wet. I looked down and saw I had blood on my shirt and hands. I had caught a small piece of shrapnel of some sort in my finger.

Inspecting the G21 after the kB revealed classic kB effect. The mag was blown out the bottom, and the mag floor and spring had been blown out of the mag. The mag floor ended up approximately 15 feet to the shooter's left. The sides of the grip just below the chamber were blown out and the slide was bowed outward. The round was still partially in the chamber and was cracked and seperated in the 6 o'clock position, where the cartridge was unsupported.

The ammo was labeled American Ammuntion, "copper coated." I didn't write it down, but if memory serves they were 230 grains.

I don't know if the student had cleaned his gun over the course of the 4 day class. The good news is that he while he suffered a fairly severe cut on his hand between the thumb and index finger, and some powder stippling on his face, there did not appear to be any permanent damage. After having the cut bandaged by the on-site EMT's, the student returned to the range to finish the course with his Kimber.

I don't know the actual cause of the kB, and the parts of the gun were retrieved for later analysis, but I suspect that the seperation of the copper coating "jacket" allowed lead deposits to accumulate in the polygonal barrel. The student had fired approximately 700 rounds of this ammo over the 4 day course, and if he didn't clean the gun it might have allowed lead build-up. In addition, American Ammo is relatively inexpensive - this may or may not imply lower quality control standards regarding case quality and overcharges.

I am still considering purchase of a G21, but this gives me pause. I would recommend in any case to avoid the particular combination of copper-coated ammo (rather than jacketed) and extended firing of the Glock.

I hope that this may save another person's hand who might otherwise have thought that kB's "don't happen with factory ammo."

addendum: I forgot to mention that, ironically, the student had previously ordered a Bar-Sto fully-supported-chamber barrel for the G21 that kB'd, but it didn't arrive in time for the class.

[Frank the Spank]

kaaaaa boom!

[VonFatman]

Pvt. Idaho,
I've heard of several "overload" situations with American Ammo. It's inexpensive, but I have heard the quality control is not so hot...it is re-manufactured ammo.
I'm glad the guy (or others) were not seriously hurt.

Keep in mind, "American Ammunition" is not jacketed ammo and therefore does not fit Glock's recommended ammo for use. It is a copper plating, put there to lubricate and to fool the customer. You can get through it with a good fingernail.

[drcohen]

Let's dispel the rumors. I work in the industry, and know first hand that ALL of such reports, which are true, is due to home made ammunition and/or double loaded rounds.

Agrip, a wonderful synthetic antislip wrap for Glocks, can protect you from schrapnal (misspelled) upon an explosion. It has been proven to save fingers and hand scars.

Bestdefense.com sells it online.

[Al Thompson]

Drcohen wrote - "Let's dispel the rumors. I work in the industry, and know first hand that ALL of such reports, which are true, is due to home made ammunition and/or double loaded rounds."

Dean Spier has posted an interesting overview of the KB issue in Glocks. (http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-glock-kb.html)
Looks to me like a couple of the KBs are not "home made" (reloaded or remanufactured) ammo related.

Your thoughts Dr. ?

"Agrip, a wonderful synthetic antislip wrap for Glocks, can protect you from schrapnal (misspelled) upon an explosion."

There is no detonation (explosion) with firearms unless an explosive is introduced. The term is "burst". Shrapnel (correct spelling) is a product of an antique cannon round. Fragments may be the term your looking for - more accurate anyway.

Care to comment?

Giz



[Edited by Gizmo99 on 02-22-2001 at 07:19 PM]

[Kermit]

Could it also be that with all the stories of Glock "owners" shooting hot loads for self defense, hunting, whatever, people are believing that rubbish and having their own guns blow up?

[vyper005]

There are probably 3 times as many Glocks out there then any other gun....and that has to account for something...

[4V50 Gary]

Read MarkCo's response in this link:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...hp?threadid=82

[eger precision]

Assuming some 40 Glocks have blown (I personally havent seen any) it is probably because the user did not follow the instructions in the owners manual. I'll leave it at that.

As far as guns I have seen blown,the vaunted 1911 wins hands down. Probably 1000 to 1 over anything else.

[Hard Ball]

Thanks for the advice, drcohen, but I don't think I want a pistol where I need after market grips to protect my hand and fingers from detonations during firng.

[Tamara]

... 'druther pick walnut splinters outta your palm? A double-charged round is gonna blow no matter which it's stuck in: a G21 or a 1911 hand made by Saint Browning.

[johnwill]

Funny, I followed the link to MarkCo's excellent work on the Glock KB's, and it makes more more sure of my Glocks, not less. Basically, virtually all the ones he examined were due to "operator error". I'm responsible for what I stuff in the magazine of my gun, as well as my care of the gun. I like it that way, and I have no desire to see it change. If I screw up, I pay the piper, it's as simple as that.

[FireStick]

Vyper005,

You state that there are 3X the number of glocks vs. any other handgun. I doubt that VERY much. The 1911 has been around for ninety years and was the US Army sidearm for 70 years. There have also been more than a dozen manufacturer's for the 1911 type pistols (Colt, Springfield, Kimber, LLama, Thompson, Les Baer, Infinity, Wilson, Coonan, AMT, Charles Daly, etc., and many foreign licensed manufacturer's). I'd be willing to bet there are more 1911's in existence than Glocks.

[automainea]

i have learned a lot on this thread,first being that if you dont hold your glock a certain way it will jamm up,secound being you can only fire a very limited brand and type of ammo in it and third that packing a loaded glock is like packing a 1911 cocked and un locked,i dont think the glock is for me,thank you