Better place to buy first time: gun show or dealer

[sunnycoast]

Any inputs? I searched the forum but surprisingly didn't get any hits. I don't care about the background check or anything, but was wondering more regarding price and quality, if applicable.

Also, do you normally buy a case with the gun? My state requires gun safe proof as well as carrying guns in the trunk with a case as well so I figured I'd buy gun plus the case at the show/dealer.

Thx

[Aguila Blanca]

For a first time buyer I would definitely buy from a reputable gun shop. You'll want to find a shop with staff (or owner) who has the time to talk to you, show you a lot of guns, help you select the one that's going to be right for you, and then walk you through the basics of how it works. I've sat on the sidelines in the shop at the range where I shoot and eavesdropped while the owner spent anywhere from a half hour to an hour-plus talking to first-time buyers. Often, they'll go away and come back two or three times before finally making a choice. Then they may come back again because they couldn't remember how to field strip it for cleaning.

You just can't get that amount of attention at a gun show.

[sunnycoast]

Thanks.

Also, would you recommend a stock AR-15 for a first timer? I was planning on buying a G21SF but looking at the real ones made me want a rifle more. I was thinking about M700 but the bolt action is tad bit annoying.

If I can get AR-15 at a gun show under $650, that would be a good deal, no?

[TXAZ]

+1 Aquilla's advice.
And I'll add the politically incorrect gun show paradigm: Your more likely to be sold a bill of goods that doesn't meet your needs than an LGS.

[sunnycoast]

Hm, I guess I'll check the local shop than for buying. I figured I'd get MORE fooled at the local store than the gun show using a car analogy.

Any inputs on online purchase? Grabagun.com seems to be a top site.

Just checked out bunch of youtube videos. AR-15 stock that shoots 5.56 NATO seems to be the mainstream. Pelican guns look like alien guns.

[Tucker 1371]

If you know how online gun sales are conducted already then disregard this, if not then here goes. If you make a purchase via a gun website like grabagun.com then you must provide them with your gun shop's information. It is common courtesy to give your gun shop a call or heads up before you do this. You will pay the website, they will ship the firearm to your gun shop where you will fill out the 4473 and undergo the background check. You will pay the gun shop a transfer fee and a background check fee and then you may take possession of your firearm. I've done it a handful of times, usually only to get a firearm I can't find locally. If you're doing it for price then the savings is usually marginal after the transfer fee and background check are paid. I prefer to give local stores my business when they have what I'm looking for. But that's just my opinion.

As far as entry level AR15s go I can't speak much from personal experience since I built my first and only AR15 from parts I bought from Palmetto State Armory, however, there are several ARs around your price range that their owners seem to be pretty satisfied with, the Ruger AR556 and S&W M&P15 Sport being two that come to mind.

Also, not trying to start a caliber war here, but why not a Glock 17 or 19 in 9mm? For a new shooter 9mm makes a little more sense due to lower recoil and lower cost of ammunition. You will be able to afford to buy more ammo to practice vs a .45 and practice is crucial. This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth, just something to consider.

[sunnycoast]

9 mm was what I was going with until couple of my friends (they're volunteer deputies) completely laughed at me for being a woman. Not that I care too much about that, but it does seem like you'd grow out of 9 mm pretty quickly kind of like when you grow out of 250cc motorcycle pretty quickly into 500cc if not 1000cc.

This is just a lot of work no matter what. I'm going to check out the store and gun show and see where I can get the most bargain. S&W M&P seem like the best deal.

[Tucker 1371]

Not to bash your buddies but chest thumping over calibers is kind of dumb. .45, .40, and 9mm all have about the same effect on target. And the shove from a .45 can be fun on the range but I prefer to be able to put a lot of rounds on target quickly and accurately.

And yes, one day you may find yourself wanting something bigger just to have some variety. I actually started off with a .45 and went down, but that was due more to my preference for the 1911 versus other pistols than caliber. Nothing wrong with owning both, but if I had it to do over again I would've started with a 9mm, I would probably be a better shooter today if I had.

Just as an aside, just because someone is a law enforcement officer doesn't make them a firearms expert. I know because I am a POST certified deputy in TN. I'm a slightly above average pistol shooter (at best) and I scored a 96% on my qualification in the academy, and 75% was a passing score. Yearly requals are even easier.

Edit: Here's an article with a survey of some highly respected veterans, trainers, and firearms industry professionals on which caliber they prefer http://www.tactical-life.com/gear/45.../#bsum-9mm-win

[rebs]

Glock 21 sf is a fine gun but I am not sure it is a good choice for a first time gun owner with little or no experience. I think a better choice would be a 1911 if 45 acp is the caliber you want.
As for an AR the S&W sport is a great rifle and can be bought at a very good price. The 1 in 8 twist is good for a variety of bullet weights.

[g.willikers]

Please,
If you haven't already done so,
Get some genuine training on at least safe gun handling and basic shooting skills before even considering buying anything.
Thanks before hand.

[zukiphile]

9 mm was what I was going with until couple of my friends (they're volunteer deputies) completely laughed at me for being a woman. Not that I care too much about that, but it does seem like you'd grow out of 9 mm pretty quickly kind of like when you grow out of 250cc motorcycle pretty quickly into 500cc if not 1000cc.

If these friends possess any wisdom on the general issue, they are concealing it brilliantly.

Thanks.

Also, would you recommend a stock AR-15 for a first timer? I was planning on buying a G21SF but looking at the real ones made me want a rifle more. I was thinking about M700 but the bolt action is tad bit annoying.

If I can get AR-15 at a gun show under $650, that would be a good deal, no?

An AR is a fine rifle and can be a good value. I would read a lot about the specific components you are thinking about buying. What barrel length, gas tube length and barrel type (4140, 4145, stainless, melonite treated) and contour (government, pencil, heavy)?

That an AR is a fine rifle doesn't make it an ideal first firearm. Cost of ammunition, report and complexity may work against a focus on basics of position and accurate use, and the trigger may be heavier than you will find on many 22lr bolt action rifles.

Perhaps more important than where you buy your first firearm is who helps you in refining your choice. Having a friend who has been in the hobby for a while and can give advice (this means listening to and addressing your questions rather than just telling you what to do) will give you a leg up.

What is your budget?
What shooting venues are available to you?
At what distance do you reasonable foresee shooting?

Someone already in the hobby will be able to provide basic guidance. If you are limited to a 25 yard indoor range requiring expensive frangible rifle ammunition, an AR is an awful first firearm.

[K_Mac]

Please,
If you haven't already done so,
Get some genuine training on at least safe gun handling and basic shooting skills before even considering buying anything.
Thanks before hand.

Your questions and concerns indicate you are new to guns. g.wilikers is right. A safety course would be a good place to start. Your friends, by dismissing the purchase of a 9 mm as a woman's weapon have demonstrated they have much to learn.

I would avoid purchasing anything from a gun show at this point, except from a reputable local dealer. Gun shows are interesting, and you can find good deals there if you know what you are doing. If you don't, there are many who will take advantage.

A 9 mm pistol, or a 5.56×45 AR are very different weapons. With proper training and practice, either one is fun to shoot. If that is your only purpose, it doesn't matter much. That's the real question: What is the purpose of this gun?

[osbornk]

If I was a first time gun owner and shooter, I would go about it differently than many people. I think you need to start out with a good 22 and learn how to shoot. I would get a Ruger 22/45 Target for a pistol and a Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 60 for a rifle. Once you learn how to shoot without recoil, I would get a moderately priced 1911 in 9mm since they feel, shoot and aim much like a 22/45 but with recoil. A heavy gun is easier to shoot accurately and that is a good thing to keep a new shooter interested. You could then graduate to the lightweight plastic world and larger calibers.

I would buy from a good local gun shop.

[sunnycoast]

Just to clarify, I've shot a .22 before, I felt like I was playing Duck Hunt in Nintendo. Also, my research tells me that .45 is where the shock starts to the bloodflow of the body which will stop them as opposed to 9mm often just makes the assailant feel like they're being bitten by a mosquito.

I appreciate the help though.

[JWT]

Definitely from a reputable dealer. If the dealer is good and has a knowledgable sales staff they can be a very big help in your selection.

[Eazyeach]

Wow! Misquito bite? Really? If you hang out online long enough you'll hear everything. Please please go to at least a hunter education course. They are usually cheap or free and you'll at least learn something about safe gun handling.

[sunnycoast]

JWT - I'm going to see about the price. It'll be interesting to see how much the local gun dealer quotes for the same weapon as the gun show.

[K_Mac]

Just to clarify, I've shot a .22 before, I felt like I was playing Duck Hunt in Nintendo. Also, my research tells me that .45 is where the shock starts to the bloodflow of the body which will stop them as opposed to 9mm often just makes the assailant feel like they're being bitten by a mosquito.

Wow. You ask us for our help and recommendations and then tell why our advice is wrong based on your "research". Based on your posts to this point, you might want to do a bit more "research" or find another hobby.

[`Bama_Mike]

Originally Posted by sunnycoast

Just to clarify, I've shot a .22 before, I felt like I was playing Duck Hunt in Nintendo. Also, my research tells me that .45 is where the shock starts to the bloodflow of the body which will stop them as opposed to 9mm often just makes the assailant feel like they're being bitten by a mosquito.

I appreciate the help though.

.22 doesn't have the same recoil feel as a larger caliber because of the low weight (mass) of the bullet itself. It still travels out the barrel faster than some handgun bullet velocities though and is very capable of killing nearly anything if hit in the right place.

Blood flow shock or more correctly, blood loss, does not stop people quickly. People can bleed profusely for four or more minutes and carry on their actions with even a lot of blood loss. The only really quick stop is severe damage to the central nervous system which includes the spine and brain.

[sunnycoast]

K Mac, why take such offense? My original post asked for price and quality of the guns between gun shows and dealer. The information is good but it seems to be consensus that I should go to a dealer. I just want to compare prices given the same guns.

[sunnycoast]

Bama Mike, I was told by the person I mentioned earlier, volunteer deputy, that .45 velocity is what stops the other person as it is effective in trauma to the brain. Anything smaller would not do that unless it is a special type of bullet.

I'm not counting on the fact that I'll be so good I'll hit the other person in vital areas that would stop them instantly.

[zukiphile]

Bama Mike, I was told by the person I mentioned earlier, volunteer deputy, that .45 velocity is what stops the other person as it is effective in trauma to the brain.

Sounds like a first hand report.

[K_Mac]

Sunnycoast, many here are committed to helping new shooters. I did not disparage your choices, although I don't think they are necessarily the best for a new shooter. Your dismissal of the .22 cartridge as insignificant, silly comments regarding 9 mm, and your complete lack of understanding of how bullets incapacitate tells me you know little about firearms. I don't fault you for not knowing what you don't know.

Your friend may be a volunteer police officer, but he doesn't know beans from buckshot about this subject. Many here do. Ask your questions, and then "listen" to the answers. Quoting your unknowing friend will just slow down the process. Good luck.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Cheap case/ gun sock in some locals is the minimum requirement under Law to tote any firearm in public area.. And is usually supplied buy the seller as a convenience to his costumer.. Up grade case's are the responsibility of the buyer to pay for.. Unless such Case is made part of the dealer/buyers sale agreement.

[sunnycoast]

K Mac - I don't mean to be dismissive of .22. My gut feeling is I'll get bored of it more quickly than not. I'm sure it depends.