Reloading 40S&W

nwgunman · July 29, 1999, 10:25 AM

I am approaching the bottom of my last keg of Winchester Action Pistol Powder. The bozos at Winchester discontinued this stuff. I'm thinking about going to Alliant's Power Pistol. Will be loading 155gr jhp, and also 180gr jhp and fmj. I'm looking for easy metering (hopefully) fairly low muzzle flash. Anybody have experience with this propellent in these 40S&W loads? Thanks. Stay safe.

Cheapo · July 29, 1999, 02:47 PM

Alliant PP overall works great. I started with it in .357 Mag and was disappointed with speeds until I shot some in another 6-inch gun. In most, you really can get @1400 fps with 125-gr. JHPs. Its flash appears moderate...more than I want but far less than 296. I ran the math on one of those web ballistic computers, and the smaller charge weight gives something like 20% less recoil energy in a 40-oz gun.

I'm just starting to use it in .40 S&W and have very little to report right now. Search this site and maybe rec.guns archives and you'll find signs of my search for a replacement for WAP. It was far better than the 231 I started with in .40!

In .380, Power Pistol proved too good. A friend worked up to .1 or .2 gr below max with a 95-gr hard cast bullet, and was getting maybe 20 fps more than advertised. This was also with lower pressure signs than other nowhere near max charges in other powders. Above 1,000 FPS! Then the gun jammed after about 100 rounds and we found that the high slide velocity had cracked the aluminum frame.

It's going to be a while before I get a chance to test-fire the .40 loads at night, so I'll defer the flash report to others.

The stuff meters well! PP appears to approach the versatility of Unique, with a notable velocity advantage in some bullet weights.

Accuracy has been good, but IME, my guns tend to shoot well at specific velocities regardless of the powder used...except for 231 with 180-gr lead--only one sub-max load ever showed promise with that one.

HTH!
Cheapo

------------------
Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

10mmrules · July 30, 1999, 11:35 AM

I loaded up about 200 rounds of .45 with power pistol. went to a plate shoot last friday, and got plenty of comment about the muzzle flash and the reports from it. some asked if I was trying for a major load one guy I was shooting against said his .45 sounded like a .22 next to mine. I was useing .2gr less than the max. I liked the accuracy, and the feel of it. it didnt seem to have that bad a kick to me. Since then I have backed down to a medium 231 load. (4.6gr) I for one like the feel and accuracy of power pistol. Titegroup is also a favorite

Yodar · July 31, 1999, 07:51 PM

My son is able to get .40 S & W 155 gr cast bullet loads into a bull the size of a silver dollar with loads based on Universal Clays(hodgdon) Alliant Power pistol and Accurate #7...alll loaded slightly under rated manufacturer's listed maximum..Power pistol pleases him the most becuse of the testosterone flow it evokes! Lotta noise, lotta flash,authoritative recoil. Details n file with him, shoult interst develop
Yodar

Cheapo · August 1, 1999, 03:42 AM

Nuts! I was hoping to get away from the flash.

Anyone have experience with Unique in .40? I once had some really hot loads in .357 that showed only a dull red pencil-shaped glow...

Stephen A. Camp · August 1, 1999, 07:38 AM

Greetings. I use Unique for the majority of my handgun loads in .45acp, 9mm, and .40 S&W.
I've found 5.8 gr Unique to deliver the following average velocities with 180 gr bullets: Winchester 180 gr JHP-972 ft/sec and Rucker 180 gr cast flat point - 996 ft/sec. The cast bullet load has proven very accurate out of my .40 Browning HP. Best.

Sportster · August 1, 1999, 11:47 AM

I can see why they ditched action pistol. Never had problems with any other powder except that one. It burned dirty and did'nt burn completely,shooting powder out the barrel with the bullet and trashing the gun with unspent powder. All other powders I've used never did this,only action pistol......

CCV · August 1, 1999, 01:57 PM

If you are looking for good performance, consistency, and clean burning try Hodgdon's TiteGroup. I load it in the 9mm and .45 ACP with good results. It should also be great in the .40.

nwgunman · August 2, 1999, 11:15 AM

Thanks for the replies so far and keep them coming! I too want to stay away from powders that invoke excessive muzzle flash. Also want one that meters a little better than Unique. I haven't experienced the problems with Win AP being "dirty" and incompletely burning, but Win AP is history anyway so that's a mute point now. I have heard about a k-B (as in "ka-BOOM!) factor with AA #5 and the .40S&W cartridge. Any input on this? I watch my brass and loads very carefully 'cause I'm currently running with the Glock format and have not yet added a fully supported barrel to my practice gun (my carry gun is so equipped). Thanks again and stay safe.

flatlander · August 2, 1999, 01:06 PM

I just got a new catalog from Graf&Sons, out of Mexico, Missouri. They have several discontinued Win. powders listed on the front cover, WAP is one of them. 3lb. caddies go for $36.54+shipping and hazmat. Their website is www.grafs.com or phone 800-531-2666 for orders only.
I used WAP in 38 Super to make major for IPSC loads, and didn't have any problems with incomplete burning. It wasn't any better for me than AA#7 or WW540, but it worked fine with good accuracy.

Cheapo · August 2, 1999, 10:58 PM

If you want to "make major" in the .40, don't try it with WW 231--it's right on the ragged edge at those velocities using 180-gr leads. I got smiley-face case bulges and erratic accuracy (sometimes great, sometimes 2-3 times as large group sizes--and yes, I shot other control groups to assure it wasn't operator error).

Alliant PP makes major easy with 180s, and IIRC, even with the lighter bullets. The flash report from Yodar makes me hesitate to do load development for 155s.

Any reports of Power Pistol flash using 165- and 180-gr bullets?

Concerning Unique not metering well--it *still* seems to work! It appears that we just have a mental block about charge weights varying too much. Unique must work on charge volume more than weight...

[This message has been edited by Cheapo (edited August 03, 1999).]

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July 29, 1999, 10:25 AM	#1
nwgunman Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 1999 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 312	I am approaching the bottom of my last keg of Winchester Action Pistol Powder. The bozos at Winchester discontinued this stuff. I'm thinking about going to Alliant's Power Pistol. Will be loading 155gr jhp, and also 180gr jhp and fmj. I'm looking for easy metering (hopefully) fairly low muzzle flash. Anybody have experience with this propellent in these 40S&W loads? Thanks. Stay safe.

July 29, 1999, 02:47 PM	#2
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Alliant PP overall works great. I started with it in .357 Mag and was disappointed with speeds until I shot some in another 6-inch gun. In most, you really can get @1400 fps with 125-gr. JHPs. Its flash appears moderate...more than I want but far less than 296. I ran the math on one of those web ballistic computers, and the smaller charge weight gives something like 20% less recoil energy in a 40-oz gun. I'm just starting to use it in .40 S&W and have very little to report right now. Search this site and maybe rec.guns archives and you'll find signs of my search for a replacement for WAP. It was far better than the 231 I started with in .40! In .380, Power Pistol proved too good. A friend worked up to .1 or .2 gr below max with a 95-gr hard cast bullet, and was getting maybe 20 fps more than advertised. This was also with lower pressure signs than other nowhere near max charges in other powders. Above 1,000 FPS! Then the gun jammed after about 100 rounds and we found that the high slide velocity had cracked the aluminum frame. It's going to be a while before I get a chance to test-fire the .40 loads at night, so I'll defer the flash report to others. The stuff meters well! PP appears to approach the versatility of Unique, with a notable velocity advantage in some bullet weights. Accuracy has been good, but IME, my guns tend to shoot well at specific velocities regardless of the powder used...except for 231 with 180-gr lead--only one sub-max load ever showed promise with that one. HTH! Cheapo ------------------ Let us never forget that the only legitimate source of government power is the citizens. If WE cannot exercise a certain power, we cannot grant it to the state.

July 30, 1999, 11:35 AM	#3
10mmrules Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 1999 Posts: 140	I loaded up about 200 rounds of .45 with power pistol. went to a plate shoot last friday, and got plenty of comment about the muzzle flash and the reports from it. some asked if I was trying for a major load one guy I was shooting against said his .45 sounded like a .22 next to mine. I was useing .2gr less than the max. I liked the accuracy, and the feel of it. it didnt seem to have that bad a kick to me. Since then I have backed down to a medium 231 load. (4.6gr) I for one like the feel and accuracy of power pistol. Titegroup is also a favorite

July 31, 1999, 07:51 PM	#4
Yodar Member Join Date: January 20, 1999 Location: WinterPark,Fl. USA Posts: 89	My son is able to get .40 S & W 155 gr cast bullet loads into a bull the size of a silver dollar with loads based on Universal Clays(hodgdon) Alliant Power pistol and Accurate #7...alll loaded slightly under rated manufacturer's listed maximum..Power pistol pleases him the most becuse of the testosterone flow it evokes! Lotta noise, lotta flash,authoritative recoil. Details n file with him, shoult interst develop Yodar

August 1, 1999, 03:42 AM	#5
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	Nuts! I was hoping to get away from the flash. Anyone have experience with Unique in .40? I once had some really hot loads in .357 that showed only a dull red pencil-shaped glow...

August 1, 1999, 07:38 AM	#6
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Greetings. I use Unique for the majority of my handgun loads in .45acp, 9mm, and .40 S&W. I've found 5.8 gr Unique to deliver the following average velocities with 180 gr bullets: Winchester 180 gr JHP-972 ft/sec and Rucker 180 gr cast flat point - 996 ft/sec. The cast bullet load has proven very accurate out of my .40 Browning HP. Best.

August 1, 1999, 11:47 AM	#7
Sportster Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Posts: 62	I can see why they ditched action pistol. Never had problems with any other powder except that one. It burned dirty and did'nt burn completely,shooting powder out the barrel with the bullet and trashing the gun with unspent powder. All other powders I've used never did this,only action pistol......

August 1, 1999, 01:57 PM	#8
CCV Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 128	If you are looking for good performance, consistency, and clean burning try Hodgdon's TiteGroup. I load it in the 9mm and .45 ACP with good results. It should also be great in the .40.

August 2, 1999, 11:15 AM	#9
nwgunman Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 1999 Location: Olympia, WA Posts: 312	Thanks for the replies so far and keep them coming! I too want to stay away from powders that invoke excessive muzzle flash. Also want one that meters a little better than Unique. I haven't experienced the problems with Win AP being "dirty" and incompletely burning, but Win AP is history anyway so that's a mute point now. I have heard about a k-B (as in "ka-BOOM!) factor with AA #5 and the .40S&W cartridge. Any input on this? I watch my brass and loads very carefully 'cause I'm currently running with the Glock format and have not yet added a fully supported barrel to my practice gun (my carry gun is so equipped). Thanks again and stay safe.

August 2, 1999, 01:06 PM	#10
flatlander Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 1999 Posts: 120	I just got a new catalog from Graf&Sons, out of Mexico, Missouri. They have several discontinued Win. powders listed on the front cover, WAP is one of them. 3lb. caddies go for $36.54+shipping and hazmat. Their website is www.grafs.com or phone 800-531-2666 for orders only. I used WAP in 38 Super to make major for IPSC loads, and didn't have any problems with incomplete burning. It wasn't any better for me than AA#7 or WW540, but it worked fine with good accuracy.

August 2, 1999, 10:58 PM	#11
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	If you want to "make major" in the .40, don't try it with WW 231--it's right on the ragged edge at those velocities using 180-gr leads. I got smiley-face case bulges and erratic accuracy (sometimes great, sometimes 2-3 times as large group sizes--and yes, I shot other control groups to assure it wasn't operator error). Alliant PP makes major easy with 180s, and IIRC, even with the lighter bullets. The flash report from Yodar makes me hesitate to do load development for 155s. Any reports of Power Pistol flash using 165- and 180-gr bullets? Concerning Unique not metering well--it still seems to work! It appears that we just have a mental block about charge weights varying too much. Unique must work on charge volume more than weight... [This message has been edited by Cheapo (edited August 03, 1999).]