American Airlines Firearms Declaration Experience.

[Willie D]

So is that Yes or No for the TSA lock on the gun case? I'm still confused.

[OnTheFly]

Originally Posted by Willie D

So is that Yes or No for the TSA lock on the gun case? I'm still confused.

That is still up to personal interpretation of the regulations. I sent an e-mail to the TSA to ask about the locks. We'll see if they ever get back to me.

Fly

[nemo2econ]

I flew two domestic US flights on American Airlines and two on Frontier Airlines in the past eight days. Transported a single firearm -- a 38 snubby -- and a full box of 50 cartridges on each flight. I experienced no problems, although the "drill" varied from airline to airline and flight to flight. For what it's worth, I used a "LifeJacket 1" lockable case (http://www.life-jacket.com) from Mogul Security which leaves the end of the barrel and the end of the grip protruding from a very solid lockable case -- this "unusual" case caused a minor issue in only one of the four flights. Somewhat oddly, on four check-ins, I was only asked to open the locked case and show the firearm was unloaded three times. FWIW, two of the three commented on how "pretty" the gun looked and that they had never seen one like that before (my snubby is a Taurus Total Titanium, Model 85, in "bright spectrum blue").

For those of you who want more detail on the airline/TSA firearm process, read on.

On American Airlines out of Washington Reagan (DCA): I made the standard declaration "I am transporting a firearm. It is unloaded and is located inside the bag that I want to check." The ticket agent first asked me to fill out the brief declaration card, then asked me to unlock the LJ1 case and show that the weapon was unloaded. She seemed familiar with the process, but was not overly friendly. She asked me to lock the declaration card inside the lockable LJ1 case, which I did, leaving a bit of the card hanging out so that any curious TSA employee who might later see it would be able to easily assess the presence of the card. At Reagan Airport, all passengers are normally asked to then take their bag about 150 feet to the TSA checkers at the baggage x-ray machine. Even with my firearm declared, my process was no different. The AA agent did show up at the TSA area to identify my bag as containing a firearm for the TSA staffers. Interestingly, she walked behind the counter over to the TSA area while I walked on the "outside" in the unsecured bagage area and was, at least briefly, out of her sight, behind a wall etc. TSA asked me to stand by while they x-rayed my bag, then allowed me to lock the outside zipper bag lock once it had been x-rayed. No issues in baggage claim at my destination (Denver). And for those of you new to this process, there is no special handling at the baggage claim. Just be sure you are at the baggage claim to gain control of your bag immediately upon release from the airlines baggage belt system.

On American Airlines out of Denver International (DEN): I made the standard declaration again (as above). Odd process here. After making the standard verbal declaration, the ticket agent asked me not to unzip my bag and explicitly indicated she did not want to see the lockable case nor have me unlock the firearm case and show the firearm was unloaded at the bag check counter. "TSA will handle that." She called for a third party (calling aloud, I think, "CTX") to come walk my bag over to the other side (east side) of the terminal where we would meet the TSA folks for the x-ray process. From this point on, I did not touch my bag. The CTX person rolled my bag over to the TSA x-ray machine. I was still holding the firearms declaration card in my hand; it was neither inside my lockable firearm case nor inside my bag. Mr. CTX thought this unusual, and started to stop in the middle of the terminal area (now a great distance away from the American Airlines counter and only about halfway to where he would eventually hand the bag over to TSA at the x-ray machine) to get the card inserted into the bag. I demurred, indicating that I thought it best we follow the ticket agents' instructions, even if they were not correct, and just explain the card in my hand to TSA. I did so when we got over to the TSA folks. They x-rayed my bag. TSA never unzipped my bag or asked me to unlock my lockable case to examine the revolver to visually confirm it is unloaded. Apparently, the TSA technology is sufficient to do that check with no eyeballs. I asked if the outside of the bag could be locked with the little (lame) zipper lock; TSA said yes. So TSA inserted the declaration card inside the bag (NOT the locked case) and then secured the zipper lock was on the outside of my now fully checked and TSA approved bag. At this point, Mr. CTX rolled the back back across the terminal building, beyond the east side ticket counters and outside to the curbside check. I followed on the principal that it is my gun and I should assure firearm security as far as physically possible (which is until it enters the automated baggage system). Mr. CTX used his ID card to enable an electronic key mechanism that opened a baggage door and accepted my bag into the automated bag handling system. Process at the bag claim at my destimation was nominal, as described on the journey out of Reagan to Denver.

Overall, a smooth firearms trip on American Airlines with no undue delays. I would guess that the firearm transport cost me less than five minutes additional time per check-in.

I also had a round trip on Frontier Airlines, from Denver to Salt Lake City. I may describe that in another post. But I will cut this description off here so that this post remains specific to American Airlines, consistent with the original post and thread title.

[OnTheFly]

Here was my email to the TSA...

I have traveled twice with firearms. Per the regulations, I've placed the firearm(s) in a hard sided case and locked it after declaration at the airport.

My question is regarding what kind of lock(s) can be used on the hard sided gun case. CFR Title 49 Part 1540.111(c)(2)(iv) states "The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination". In the past, I have traveled with TSA approved/accessible locks on the hard sided gun case. Are these locks acceptable under this regulation?

Thank you,

And here was their reply...

Thank you for your e-mail concerning TSA Approved Locks.

Under this system, TSA screeners are able to unlock and then relock luggage without damage through the use of passkey sets that are available to TSA screeners. These locks are accepted and recognized by the TSA for use at all airports where TSA screening is performed. However, TSA does not approve or endorse this particular product and we expect additional vendors to provide different versions of these "Dual Custody" padlocks to the retail market. While we cannot guarantee that the TSA accepted locks will not be broken during security screening, we do request that you report such incidents to the TSA Contact Center (TCC) so that we can take appropriate action.

Additional information on these products can be found on the Travel Sentry web site at www.travelsentry.org and on the Safe Skies web site at www.safeskieslocks.com.

Please visit our website at www.tsa.gov for additional information about TSA. We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.

TSA Contact Center

I'm going to annoy them with a follow up question.
Fly

[444]

I traveled from Pittsburgh to Las Vegas with a number of firearms all in one hard case.
I told the ticket agent about it. They didn't bat an eye. Told me I had to take ALL my luggage down to the TSA.
TSA put all my luggage other than the gun case on a conveyor belt then had me open the gun case. We spent about five seconds confirming they were unloaded. And we were done.
He said I didn't have good locks and he would be amazed if the guns were in the case when I got to Las Vegas.

The whole exercise probably added 3-5 minutes to the process of checking in. There was no hassle at all. Nobody was alarmed. Nobobdy even acted like they cared in the least about it.

[rescuesup]

The answer is no to a TSA lock. The rule is a combination lock or keyed lock that only you have in your possession.

[Wagonman]

I have been flying with firearms for about ten years. Never a hitch. I have a copy of the TSA regs in the hardsided case just in case. I reread the regs and realized I could have a loaded magazine in a holder which makes initial rearming much quicker.

[Glenn Dee]

Glad everyone had such nice experiences. After 9/11 I moved from NY to Florida. I flew out of Newark Intnl. to Ft Lauderdale Intl.

I flew with my 16 year old son, several pieces of luggage, and a pellican case containing 12 handguns. I was flying Jet Blue. As per their procedure I declaired my firearms to the Ticket Agent. She called the police. The PAPD responded, and I Identified myself (retired cop) showed them my CCW permit. They thanked me and informed the agent that I was perfectly legal.

The agent then asked to see if the firearms were unloaded. I showed her each one was unloaded. She thanked me, and walked me over to TSA. The TSA agent asked for the declaration forms... Back to the Ticket agents counter. Fill out the declaration forms... Back to TSA. I offer to unlock the pellican case for examination. TSA is happy to just X-Ray it... Place it in a army duffel, put an orange tag on it... and send it on its way.

OK now son and I are on the plane in our seats. I hear my name being called out. The flight attendant is asking me to speak with a guy in a plain clothes. He asks me to step off the plane and speak with him for a moment. OK I go with him to the gangway... He says that I'll be slightly delayed. OK I ask will the plane wait for me?.. I'm told that If were not finished he'll put me on the next available flight. I ask him to allow my son to get off. They hold the plane long enough for my son to get off... and we miss out flight.

The guy identifies himself as airline security... And he's a retired cop too. He tell's me that I cant fly with all my guns. He suggests that I leave them there. That didnt go over with me too well. Then the conversation turned to why do I have so many guns. He says that he was a cop like me and he only owned one. back and forth we went... four and a half hours later were still sitting in newark. He simply wont let me fly with so many guns, that in his opinion I dont need. He hung his hat on an airline rule that limits two guns to any one locked box.

I finally called the airline to make a complaint. Within a few minutes a supervisor of some kind walks into the office and asks whats going on. The security guy explains the situation... The supervisor is clearly upset. She tells him that if he insists on enforcing that rule... to loan me as many gun boxes as I need. It turns out that the airline has gun boxes just for such an occasion. He gives me several boxes and I repack my iron. I had to take a cab to a hardware store to buy additional locks.

6 Hours later were wheels up... and on the way to florida...

[45Gunner]

Excellent posts guys. Good info. For years, I flew as a LEO and always by-passed security. Now, for the first time, I will have to fly with my artillery packed in my luggage. I know the drill but I'm not thrilled with it.

Has anyone had any experience in LGA? I have to fly to NYC next month and not as much concerned about the trip into NYC as I am returning back and dealing with the counter people/TSA in NYC. I will be flying Southwest which is always cool and employees helpful as they can be.

Any insight will be appreciated.

[44 AMP]

So, I don't know all the current details, but from the posts, other than indivdual airports doing things a little different, things have not changed much.

I do have a tip, consider having your guns, especially long guns cased with the action open, visible when you open the case. IF you feel comfortable with it, I would go so far as to remove bolts, or disassemble handguns, maybe even keeping the parts in separate luggage, or seperate containers in the same luggage, not in the gun case.

Beside being obvious to even an idiot that the gun is not loaded, it has the advantage of you not having to handle the gun in public to show anyone. And, if your gun does go missing () at least who ever took it can't use it!

[Mr Dish]

I hate airplanes anyway....I'd rather drive.

[ClayInTx]

First: I am not afraid to fly.
With that said, next:

I hate flying on airlines because of the hassle and wasted time. If I have a long way to go I’ll do it but it has to be a long, long way and a real, real need to be there.

To fly commercial I have to pack my luggage for airline travel; small cans and nothing suspicious and don’t wear boots because I’ll have to have my shoes inspected.

I have to drive to the airport, which might be in the opposite direction of my destination and from Texas usually is. The airport is 1-1/2 hours away.

I have to find a place in a parking lot or garage and this takes time.

I have to arrive at the check-in at least an hour ahead of time. If I want to take a gun there’s all that additional hassle (not worth it, so leave it).

At my destination I have to wait for my luggage.

I have to rent a car, but I admit I can do this while waiting for my luggage.

I have to get a shuttle to the car lot.

I have to drive to my final destination which might be opposite to the way I flew in.

And worse, I have to make my schedule there fit my return time with any extensions being a hassle.

And the places I need to go to aren’t usually on the “hot list” of cheap flights. “Sir, your ticket to Cancun will be forty-nine dollars and if you stay at the Raykoff Hotel you’ll get a fifty dollar rebate. Oh, you want to fly to Podunk, Georgia? That’ll be nine hundred thirty-seven dollars, one way, and there’s a surcharge on your luggage, but they do give you a pack of peanuts and a cup of water for only seventeen dollars.”

If I drive to my destination I pack my bags to my preferences, take my gun without having to declare it to anyone, wear boots if I want to, and head out in the direction I need to go. If I need to overstay at my destination I do not have to call my car and tell it I’ll be late.

....it has to be a long, long way and a real, real need to be there. And even then I’ll probably drive.