Interstate handgun Sales.

kraigwy · February 28, 2016, 01:33 PM

Quote:

U.S. District Court Judge Reed O’Connor ruled that the federal interstate handgun sales ban is unconstitutional.

What do we know of this?

I live near a small town on the WY-SD border. Rapid City being the closest large town, therefore I do a lot of shopping there. Scheels, Cabela's etc.

And of course I've been known to buy a firearm or two across state lines.

Long guns arnt the problem, Pay my money, fill out the 4473 and have the background check done, and take my new gun home.

Except for handguns, they have to be shipped to a dealer in my state which is a hassle plus the added expense of shipping and FFL Transfer fees.

My understanding the above ruling should eliminate this, a hand gun would be treated like a long gun.

Am I correct? Does this ruling only apply to the jurisdiction of the court case?

Any thoughts or idea's?

**Aguila Blanca** · February 28, 2016, 02:36 PM

District court? Not circuit court of appeals?

Does the ruling apply anywhere, to anyone other than the principal of the case at hand? IANAL but I thought district court decisions can't be cited as precedent.

kilimanjaro · February 28, 2016, 03:09 PM

Did he rule on the law, or is that just dicta?

From District to Circuit to SCOTUS, don't hold your breath.

But, now that we have NICS checks nationally, in a few minutes, just what is the purpose of an interstate commerce ban?

**Frank Ettin** · February 28, 2016, 04:09 PM

It's moot at this point. The order of Judge O'Connor has been stayed, and the case, Mance v. Lynch (No. 15-10311), is now on appeal to the Fifth Circuit.

**Spats McGee** · February 28, 2016, 04:13 PM

I don't know what court this is out of or the style of the case, but if someone can provide that information, I can try to follow up later in the week.

As far as where it applies, here's how precedence works:
SCOTUS -- binding on everything below it on matters of federal law (Circuit Courts of Appeal and District Courts).
Circuit Courts of Appeal -- binding on everything below them in their respective circuits; persuasive in other Circuit Courts of Appeal (District Courts).
District Courts -- Persuasive in other District Courts

Now, when you get to the interplay between federal and state law, it gets a little wrinkly, but I don't think that's what we're looking at here, so I'll leave that for another day.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 28, 2016, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

District Courts -- Persuasive in other District Courts

By this, do you mean persuasive only in other courts within the same District, or persuasive in all District courts?

**Spats McGee** · February 28, 2016, 07:44 PM

Persuasive in all other district courts. You probably know this but for the benefit of other readers who may not … All " persuasive" means is that a lawyer can point to it and tell a judge "See? Look at this reasoning! I think you should use the same reasoning here."

kilimanjaro · February 28, 2016, 09:03 PM

Another reason to miss Justice Scalia, I'm afraid.

Elections have consequences.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 28, 2016, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spats McGee

Persuasive in all other district courts. You probably know this but for the benefit of other readers who may not … All " persuasive" means is that a lawyer can point to it and tell a judge "See? Look at this reasoning! I think you should use the same reasoning here."

I always thought you couldn't "tell" a judge anything. Maybe you meant to write,

All " persuasive" means is that a lawyer can point to it and suggest to a judge "See? Look at this reasoning! I think you should consider using the same reasoning here."

DaleA · February 29, 2016, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Persuasive in all other district courts. You probably know this but for the benefit of other readers who may not … All " persuasive" means is that a lawyer can point to it and tell a judge "See? Look at this reasoning! I think you should use the same reasoning here."

I appreciate you spelling things out.

gc70 · February 29, 2016, 03:44 AM

Frank provided a good summary of the District Court's decision in an earlier thread. The District Court's decision is well worth reading, even with the case pending in the Fifth Circuit.

**Spats McGee** · February 29, 2016, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I always thought you couldn't "tell" a judge anything. Maybe you meant to write,

All " persuasive" means is that a lawyer can point to it and suggest to a judge "See? Look at this reasoning! I think you should consider using the same reasoning here."

Touche'

Al Norris · February 29, 2016, 09:02 AM

The case went to oral arguments on Jan. 6, 2016.

So we now wait for the Circuit Court Opinion.

Dreaming100Straight · March 3, 2016, 06:16 PM

But has the order enjoining the AG from enforcement ever been stayed?

62coltnavy · March 16, 2016, 11:31 PM

Good question, but it would be truly surprising if it was not, given such a dramatic change in the status quo. The government very much does not want to lose this case.

February 28, 2016, 04:09 PM	#4
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	It's moot at this point. The order of Judge O'Connor has been stayed, and the case, Mance v. Lynch (No. 15-10311), is now on appeal to the Fifth Circuit. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

February 28, 2016, 04:13 PM	#5
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I don't know what court this is out of or the style of the case, but if someone can provide that information, I can try to follow up later in the week. As far as where it applies, here's how precedence works: SCOTUS -- binding on everything below it on matters of federal law (Circuit Courts of Appeal and District Courts). Circuit Courts of Appeal -- binding on everything below them in their respective circuits; persuasive in other Circuit Courts of Appeal (District Courts). District Courts -- Persuasive in other District Courts Now, when you get to the interplay between federal and state law, it gets a little wrinkly, but I don't think that's what we're looking at here, so I'll leave that for another day. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

February 28, 2016, 07:44 PM	#7
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Persuasive in all other district courts. You probably know this but for the benefit of other readers who may not … All " persuasive" means is that a lawyer can point to it and tell a judge "See? Look at this reasoning! I think you should use the same reasoning here." __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

February 28, 2016, 02:36 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	District court? Not circuit court of appeals? Does the ruling apply anywhere, to anyone other than the principal of the case at hand? IANAL but I thought district court decisions can't be cited as precedent.

February 28, 2016, 03:09 PM	#3
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Did he rule on the law, or is that just dicta? From District to Circuit to SCOTUS, don't hold your breath. But, now that we have NICS checks nationally, in a few minutes, just what is the purpose of an interstate commerce ban?

February 28, 2016, 09:03 PM	#8
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Another reason to miss Justice Scalia, I'm afraid. Elections have consequences.

February 29, 2016, 03:44 AM	#11
gc70 Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,903	Frank provided a good summary of the District Court's decision in an earlier thread. The District Court's decision is well worth reading, even with the case pending in the Fifth Circuit.

February 29, 2016, 09:02 AM	#13
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	The case went to oral arguments on Jan. 6, 2016. So we now wait for the Circuit Court Opinion.

March 3, 2016, 06:16 PM	#14
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	But has the order enjoining the AG from enforcement ever been stayed?

March 16, 2016, 11:31 PM	#15
62coltnavy Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2011 Posts: 356	Good question, but it would be truly surprising if it was not, given such a dramatic change in the status quo. The government very much does not want to lose this case.