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June 29, 2014, 05:18 PM | #51 | |
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The image of a black hummer with a light bar on top, slowly cruising my neighborhood streets does not rest well with me. |
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June 29, 2014, 05:28 PM | #52 | |
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June 29, 2014, 05:57 PM | #53 | |
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The biggest problem is the war on drugs. End it, already. We don't particularly care if people want to ruin their lives with alcohol (a very powerful drug in its own right), why should pot be any different? |
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June 29, 2014, 05:57 PM | #54 | |
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“The egg hatched...” “...the egg hatched... and a hundred baby spiders came out...” (blade runner) “Who are you?” “A friend. I'm here to prevent you from making a mistake.” “You have no idea what I'm doing here, friend.” “In specific terms, no, but I swore an oath to protect the world...” (continuum) “It's a goal you won't understand until later. Your job is to make sure he doesn't achieve the goal.” (bsg) |
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June 29, 2014, 07:11 PM | #55 | ||
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June 29, 2014, 08:05 PM | #56 | |
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To answer the second: it has to do with the mindset of the person driving and their interpretation of their job arising from the items they are issued. |
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June 29, 2014, 10:54 PM | #57 | |
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Dealing with isolated instances like you mention are not a justification of a militarization of the police. |
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June 30, 2014, 01:56 AM | #58 |
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Do I agree with the militarization of the police? Absolutely not. Almost daily, there are stories of abuse of power by police forces around the country. It a subject that deeply disturbs me. There is simply no excuse good enough to justify the taking of a single innocent life, period. Rules for use of units such as SWAT need to be defined absolutely and adhered to strictly. There is absolutely no need for no-knock raids, and they should be eliminated. There should be some type of local oversight established, using ordinary citizens, with the power to weed out those whose egos are too big for police work. There should be a zero tolerance policy concerning abuse of any type coming from police. They should set the standard for behavior, and that standard should be very high. How would you feel if it were your child, or wife, maimed or killed in the service of a warrant at the wrong address? We were just doing our job is of little consolation at that point, and it is an absolute lie, as at that point it is clearly obvious that someone wasn't.
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June 30, 2014, 08:54 AM | #59 | |
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Do you object to a police helicopter flying over the interstates. cities, and towns "quarterbacking" high speed chases, vectoring ground units to unsafe drivers, and so on? Global Positioning technology? Scrambled radio transmissions? Any sort of firearms at all as it's fairly common for the police forces to adopt current or previous Armed Forces firearms, especially side arms, for multiple reasons, not the least of which was cost and familiarity. |
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June 30, 2014, 09:07 AM | #60 |
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I think the litmus test is this: If ordinary citizens (i.e. civilians) are prohibited from owning and operating the equipment, then police (i.e. civilians) can't own and operate that same equipment either.
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June 30, 2014, 09:09 AM | #61 | |
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How exactly do we claim it's an inanimate object when it's our property, but a driving force in their actions when it's not? Well, how do we do it without being laughed out of the room for hypocrisy? |
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June 30, 2014, 09:54 AM | #62 | ||
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Last edited by manta49; June 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM. |
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June 30, 2014, 10:16 AM | #63 | |
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One issue I feel is ignored regularly on when looking at this and similar issues is how funding has slowly changed over time. Years ago, such essential services (fire/police/streets) where funded properly for the most part to ensure a basic level of staffing and equipment. There wasn't a question of not funding these areas years ago. Now, these same essential services are having to compete with non-essential services for funds so there is a need to substantiate the reason for this or that. People like free stuff when they are receiving it, so cut fire because My house hasn't burned, or police because I haven't been hit by a thief. Add to that grant funding, and the military trying to get rid of equipment, while some agencies are scrapping to get by and it makes for odd solutions. |
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June 30, 2014, 11:26 AM | #64 | ||
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You do not know that it is not a driving force in their actions. I cherry picked this from Ron Pauls' "Farewell to Congress Speech" Quote:
It is the first line in particular that I am focusing on. Gun owners are not under the illusion that because of their position, they are right. We know that if we initiate a conflict, we won't be let off the hook because of our occupation. |
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June 30, 2014, 11:51 AM | #65 | |
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June 30, 2014, 12:06 PM | #66 | |
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Bullet resistant glass: ok M4s: ok Vests: ok Trucks designed for serious off road use: not so much. And yes, I do need access to the same firearms used by my government, for reasons to numerous to list here. I would like to add that I really like the statement in post #42. |
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June 30, 2014, 06:27 PM | #67 | |
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June 30, 2014, 07:26 PM | #68 |
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You will never see an armored vehicle or a humvee on patrol because a chief would never choose that vehicle. Its not reliable, huge gas guzzler and too slow not to mention uncomfortable. In fact most armored vehicles are usually taken to the fight on huge flatbeds. I doubt you will ever see a humvee on patrol.
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June 30, 2014, 07:59 PM | #69 |
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I don't like it, as it sets a tone of us against them. In addition it is a waste of taxpayer dollars even if the Feds "give" them to state, and local law enforcement. We've paid for them once, now we pay for them again in operating expenses, and maintenance. These are huge dollars as they must run, and practice using them. The LEO's will say they are free, but they are far from it.
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June 30, 2014, 09:42 PM | #70 |
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I think police should have the tools and equipment needed to enforce reasonable and popular laws, using reasonable measures, where people are innocent until proven guilty.
That is the starting point. Now, where does stacked units of men armed with M4s and MP5s and night vision, doing an Iraq style raid on a home at 2am, shooting pets and throwing people on the ground, shooting anyone who is armed inside... where exactly does that fall in the 'innocent until proven guilty American citizen with Constitutional Rights' spectrum? Is a drug dealer really MORE dangerous or costly to society than such raids, done by the tens or hundreds of thousands every year across the nation? I would suggest the MORE dangerous activity is a violent military style raid, endangering innocents and violating rights is far more damaging to society than a drug dealer. I've also said often that the war on drugs is the biggest threat to liberty and the 4th and 2nd Amendments. Both of which have repeatedly been eroded on the guise of this 'war on drugs.' Read up on it. All major search and seizure defeats, and gun control, are premised on drugs/prohibition. Police should serve and protect. We see too much abuse today. Standard patrol police should have weapons to do their job, and respond to bad situations. Nobody wants a cop to be outgunned. That means vests, pistols, long guns, and training and backup. Yes, military style SWAT is needed to respond to high threat situations, as they arise. Terrorism, LA Bank robberies, riots, etc. But the mentality of the police as demonstrated through no knock raids, or abusing and beating people, or ignoring rights, etc. has got to change. It's not the equipment necessarily, it's the mentality. But I do agree that when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. |
June 30, 2014, 09:47 PM | #71 | |
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July 1, 2014, 02:42 AM | #72 | |
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No to Militarization of police
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July 1, 2014, 03:00 AM | #73 | |
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Definition needed...
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July 1, 2014, 05:45 AM | #74 |
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I graduated from high school 1970.The draft was an issue.I wrote a paper for a class about it.All volunteer Army vs draft.Before I get jumped,I was 17.
I wrote about a professional cadre,carrying skills and experience,infused with folks whose loyalty was to home,mom,apple pie,their neighborhood.The citizen soldier draftee maintains a certain balance.With them it is less likely we would ever have a military forcibly disarming civilians,for example. I saw a danger in a military separated,isolated from the civilian population.Their own closed world.The Civilians become "other". Us vs them is a different set of rules than "We". I think this compliments what kraigwy said.Good if a cop is Steward of his neighborhood.Serve and protect..neighbors,friends,like people. I wonder,if Columbine had happened at Mayberry...might Andy and Barney have handled it like one woman did at the New Life Church in Co Springs. She took her handgun and headed toward the guy shooting the AR and stopped him. Serve and protect. With great respect,the military job is kill people and break things.The Patton approach.While I think there needs to be some capacity for this available,it should not be an LEO way of looking at the neighborhood. I do see the police sniper as a valuable resource. Shooting peoples dogs for barking at them,beating homeless people to death,gunning down campers and tossing grenades in cribs...the headlines tell me something is wrong. |
July 1, 2014, 07:26 AM | #75 | |
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