Hello...need help with a revolver

tallman85 · February 28, 2015, 11:59 AM

Hello. I always liked the revolvers and now after many many years i might aquiere one. All i know is that it is a Montenegrin prob Belgian and does not look to be in a very good condition.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130037...3/16661511055/

See picture in link.

Not much info on the net....any help please? How much are they worth? Are they prestigious? Do you recommend them? Can they be restored?

Many thanks in advance

lee n. field · February 28, 2015, 01:01 PM

You know you're not going to be shooting this, right, even if restored?

What do you want a revolver for?

Old 19th century Belgian guns might be good, might be crap (even when new).

Sgt127 · February 28, 2015, 01:13 PM

What country are you in? For a gun for shooting, I can't imagine a more impractical gun. A S&W model 10 .38 special revolver would be a whole lot better gun. Are you limited to what you can own?

tallman85 · February 28, 2015, 01:32 PM

Hello. Thanks for the reply. Well i know this wont fire but i really love antiques and western style revolvers are my favourite. I am located in malta (europe) so a bit limited whats around...of course there is always the internet.

So any suggestions what else i can buy? Western style.

What about value of the Montenegrin. Well it would be nice to fire it once in a while...i am referring to other brands.

Thanks.

James K · February 28, 2015, 01:42 PM

Those guns were made in Belgium, France, and Spain, but also in other countries. Guns made for Montenegro (literally "Black Mountain") were usually in 11.75 mm (.46 caliber). Power was low in spite of the large caliber.

That one looks to be in good shape and has some engraving.

BUT, be careful. Recently, some folks have begun to round up all sorts of 19th century guns, including pinfires, putting on some cheap engraving and giving them a quick re-blue job, with or without gold plating. The guns are then sold to novice collectors in the U.S. and elsewhere for prices ranging up to $5000, often with stories about ownership by royalty. Since original guns of that type usually sell for $100-200 even in good condition, there is a decent profit to be made.

Those guns are attractive to some people since they are antiques and exempt from many laws controlling the traffic in modern weapons. However, ammunition is obsolete and rarely available in any quantity, and even if modern ammunition will fit, it would probably be dangerous to fire.

Jim

tallman85 · February 28, 2015, 01:56 PM

Thanks Jim very informative. No this is definitely a genuine, no doubt in that. These used to belong to old policemen here, so its documented. So what you think Jim, how much should i bargain? What would you pay if it were you? Thanks

James K · February 28, 2015, 02:34 PM

I don't know anything about the economy of Malta so I don't know what would be considered a high or low price in Euros, but if the gun were on sale here and I wanted it, I probably would not go much over $200 (€178). I might go more if I could actually see and hold the gun and learn more about it.

Jim

tallman85 · February 28, 2015, 02:42 PM

Thanks Jim. Any western style rev that you can mention to me as other alternative?

Thx

James K · February 28, 2015, 02:55 PM

I don't know of any Western style revolvers now being made except in the U.S. and Italy. The Italian revolvers by Uberti are a very good combination of quality and reasonable cost. Whether they would be available in Malta, I don't know, but they would probably be more available there than Colts or Rugers.

Jim

lee n. field · February 28, 2015, 05:20 PM

Quote:

So any suggestions what else i can buy? Western style.

Western style. There's a couple companies in Italy that make good quality & fire-able reproductions of United Statesian Old West revolvers. One is Pietta. The other would be Uberti.

These might be black powder cap and ball revolvers, black powder cartridge revolvers, or able to shoot modern ("smokeless") cartridges.

Take a look at their stuff.

Driftwood Johnson · February 28, 2015, 08:30 PM

Howdy

There is nothing 'Western' about that revolver. If you want something 'Western' look into the replicas made by Uberti.

James K · February 28, 2015, 10:34 PM

You mean Billy the Kid didn't carry an 11.75mm Montenegrin revolver? Did the guy who sold me the gun lie?

Jim

tallman85 · March 1, 2015, 04:48 AM

Very good stuff on their web! But is seems dealers are located only in the usa...but there must be a distributor in europe...i mean they are made in italy after all, 200 miles away from my country.

Very nice stuff indeed

lee n. field · March 1, 2015, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Very good stuff on their web! But is seems dealers are located only in the usa...but there must be a distributor in europe...i mean they are made in italy after all, 200 miles away from my country.

Uberti is a subsidiary of Beretta. Check with whoever distribures Beretta.

Chiappa and Pedersoli are another couple nearby (to you) makers of "Old West" replicas to look into.

tallman85 · March 1, 2015, 02:24 PM

Ahh, good to know that...thanks, this is a great forum with lots of knowledge.

lee n. field · March 1, 2015, 07:13 PM

Also, check out the capandball Youtube channel. They guy's a Hungarian who's into black powder firearms of the period you're interested in. Audios are in English and (what I presume is) Hungarian.

Model12Win · March 2, 2015, 03:48 PM

Uberti is a great company, they make great cap n' balls and centerfire Old West revolvers!

James K · March 2, 2015, 08:57 PM

Lock, Stock and Barrel in Santa Venera handles Uberti, but I don't know if that is cartridge guns or only percussion revolvers.

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · March 3, 2015, 12:51 PM

According to Cartridges of the World the 11mm Montenegro revolver cartridge churned out about 330 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle.

That's actually not bad at all, and was on part with a number of American cartridges of the same time frame.

February 28, 2015, 11:59 AM	#1
tallman85 Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 6	Hello...need help with a revolver Hello. I always liked the revolvers and now after many many years i might aquiere one. All i know is that it is a Montenegrin prob Belgian and does not look to be in a very good condition. https://www.flickr.com/photos/130037...3/16661511055/ See picture in link. Not much info on the net....any help please? How much are they worth? Are they prestigious? Do you recommend them? Can they be restored? Many thanks in advance

February 28, 2015, 01:01 PM	#2
lee n. field Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: The same state as Mordor. Posts: 5,569	You know you're not going to be shooting this, right, even if restored? What do you want a revolver for? Old 19th century Belgian guns might be good, might be crap (even when new). __________________ "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

March 1, 2015, 07:13 PM	#16
lee n. field Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: The same state as Mordor. Posts: 5,569	Also, check out the capandball Youtube channel. They guy's a Hungarian who's into black powder firearms of the period you're interested in. Audios are in English and (what I presume is) Hungarian. __________________ "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

March 3, 2015, 12:51 PM	#19
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	According to Cartridges of the World the 11mm Montenegro revolver cartridge churned out about 330 ft. lbs of energy at the muzzle. That's actually not bad at all, and was on part with a number of American cartridges of the same time frame. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 28, 2015, 01:13 PM	#3
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	What country are you in? For a gun for shooting, I can't imagine a more impractical gun. A S&W model 10 .38 special revolver would be a whole lot better gun. Are you limited to what you can own?

February 28, 2015, 01:32 PM	#4
tallman85 Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 6	Hello. Thanks for the reply. Well i know this wont fire but i really love antiques and western style revolvers are my favourite. I am located in malta (europe) so a bit limited whats around...of course there is always the internet. So any suggestions what else i can buy? Western style. What about value of the Montenegrin. Well it would be nice to fire it once in a while...i am referring to other brands. Thanks.

February 28, 2015, 01:42 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Those guns were made in Belgium, France, and Spain, but also in other countries. Guns made for Montenegro (literally "Black Mountain") were usually in 11.75 mm (.46 caliber). Power was low in spite of the large caliber. That one looks to be in good shape and has some engraving. BUT, be careful. Recently, some folks have begun to round up all sorts of 19th century guns, including pinfires, putting on some cheap engraving and giving them a quick re-blue job, with or without gold plating. The guns are then sold to novice collectors in the U.S. and elsewhere for prices ranging up to $5000, often with stories about ownership by royalty. Since original guns of that type usually sell for $100-200 even in good condition, there is a decent profit to be made. Those guns are attractive to some people since they are antiques and exempt from many laws controlling the traffic in modern weapons. However, ammunition is obsolete and rarely available in any quantity, and even if modern ammunition will fit, it would probably be dangerous to fire. Jim

February 28, 2015, 01:56 PM	#6
tallman85 Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 6	Thanks Jim very informative. No this is definitely a genuine, no doubt in that. These used to belong to old policemen here, so its documented. So what you think Jim, how much should i bargain? What would you pay if it were you? Thanks

February 28, 2015, 02:34 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't know anything about the economy of Malta so I don't know what would be considered a high or low price in Euros, but if the gun were on sale here and I wanted it, I probably would not go much over $200 (€178). I might go more if I could actually see and hold the gun and learn more about it. Jim

February 28, 2015, 02:42 PM	#8
tallman85 Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 6	Thanks Jim. Any western style rev that you can mention to me as other alternative? Thx

February 28, 2015, 02:55 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't know of any Western style revolvers now being made except in the U.S. and Italy. The Italian revolvers by Uberti are a very good combination of quality and reasonable cost. Whether they would be available in Malta, I don't know, but they would probably be more available there than Colts or Rugers. Jim

February 28, 2015, 08:30 PM	#11
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy There is nothing 'Western' about that revolver. If you want something 'Western' look into the replicas made by Uberti.

February 28, 2015, 10:34 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	You mean Billy the Kid didn't carry an 11.75mm Montenegrin revolver? Did the guy who sold me the gun lie? Jim

March 1, 2015, 04:48 AM	#13
tallman85 Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 6	Very good stuff on their web! But is seems dealers are located only in the usa...but there must be a distributor in europe...i mean they are made in italy after all, 200 miles away from my country. Very nice stuff indeed

March 1, 2015, 02:24 PM	#15
tallman85 Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 6	Ahh, good to know that...thanks, this is a great forum with lots of knowledge.

March 2, 2015, 03:48 PM	#17
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Uberti is a great company, they make great cap n' balls and centerfire Old West revolvers!

March 2, 2015, 08:57 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Lock, Stock and Barrel in Santa Venera handles Uberti, but I don't know if that is cartridge guns or only percussion revolvers. Jim