777 FFFG in Ruger Old Army

drdirk · September 9, 2006, 12:25 PM

Hi everybody:

Just came across a bottle of American Pioneer 777 FFFG powder. Planning on shooting it in my Ruger Old Army. Any feedback as to how well it works and what load is recommended. I usually shoot real BP or 30 grains of Pyrodex.

How did 777 work for you guys? Does it really clean up easier than Pyrodex? What do you clean it with?

Thanks!

Lazarus777 · September 10, 2006, 10:31 AM

I've used American Pioneer before...Shockey's Gold. The powder was weak to say the least, but very clean. It looks very different than most powders...very gray looking and the 3 F looked more like 2 F to me. I packed my Ruger with 50 grains just to see what would happen, fairly powerful load, but still well within the Ruger's capability. I'veb been stuffing around 40 grains of Goex Black powder in my Ruger Old Army and it's been fairly accurate, enough for hunting Deer.

Laz.

Lazarus777 · September 10, 2006, 10:34 AM

P.S.,

Aren't you thinking of Hodgdon's Triple 7? If you are then 25 grains is a nice load, you can go higher of course but 25gr is pretty accurate. I've been trying 35 grains lately, for white-tail Deer and it is also very accurate. I think it mainly comes down to the ability of the guy holding more so than the amount of powder, though I imagine there is a point in which too much powder definitely effects accuracy regardless of one's ability to hold.

Laz.

drdirk · September 10, 2006, 03:48 PM

Sorry guys, I had a brain issue: I meant to say Amerian Pioneer Powder FFFG. This stuff used to be sold under "clean shot" . Can't find much on the internet and the American Pioneer Web Site is not help, just has a few pictures and a claim of "10,000 shots without cleaning". I find that hard to believe.
Looks like very few people use it.

arcticap · September 10, 2006, 06:33 PM

Clean Shot works fine in my rifles using moderate to heavy loads, but I've read that American Pioneer Powder produces lower velocity in pistol length barrels. It must have a different pressure curve than the other powders, but who's to say that's so bad? Maybe some people prefer lower target velocities for precision shooting.

I bought some of the Pioneer Powder recently but I haven't shot any yet, so I can't say if it shoots exactly the same as the earlier production Clean Shot does.
Here's another thread where someone asked about it, if I come across any chronograph data I'll post it:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217213

arcticap · September 11, 2006, 12:21 AM

Thanks for the picture & info. mec!

There's been quite a few threads that refer to American Pioneer Powder on www.thehighroad.org. Some offered bits of information about easy clean up with soap and water or with alcohol. You can go there and do the search yourself by going to "advanced search", entering "American Pioneer Powder" and by specifying "blackpowder shooting forum".
Some of the threads refer to APP, some to Clean shot, and some to Goex Pinnacle made by APP but which Goex claimed was different (i.e.-blacker in color). So it's important to distinguish when reading reference threads that it's similiar but not quite the same as APP, even though some people refer to it as APP.
Most people admit that it's not as powerful, but these figures show it can be when used in a revolver cylinder that hold a larger volume of powder.

Here's one:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.ph...Pioneer+Powder

mec · September 11, 2006, 07:19 AM

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=goex+pinnacle

Here's a thread onf pinnacle. Its a bit more energetic than American Pioneer but not nearly as consistent. It seemed to be gaining in shot to shot consistency in the dragoon chambers but was unsuitable for any other revolver.

drdirk · September 11, 2006, 08:44 AM

Thanks for the responses. I also did a search on thehighroad and it looks like mixed reviews. Will give it a try!

September 9, 2006, 12:25 PM	#1
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	777 FFFG in Ruger Old Army Hi everybody: Just came across a bottle of American Pioneer 777 FFFG powder. Planning on shooting it in my Ruger Old Army. Any feedback as to how well it works and what load is recommended. I usually shoot real BP or 30 grains of Pyrodex. How did 777 work for you guys? Does it really clean up easier than Pyrodex? What do you clean it with? Thanks!

September 10, 2006, 10:31 AM	#2
Lazarus777 Member Join Date: August 23, 2006 Posts: 39	I've used American Pioneer before...Shockey's Gold. The powder was weak to say the least, but very clean. It looks very different than most powders...very gray looking and the 3 F looked more like 2 F to me. I packed my Ruger with 50 grains just to see what would happen, fairly powerful load, but still well within the Ruger's capability. I'veb been stuffing around 40 grains of Goex Black powder in my Ruger Old Army and it's been fairly accurate, enough for hunting Deer. Laz.

September 10, 2006, 10:34 AM	#3
Lazarus777 Member Join Date: August 23, 2006 Posts: 39	P.S., Aren't you thinking of Hodgdon's Triple 7? If you are then 25 grains is a nice load, you can go higher of course but 25gr is pretty accurate. I've been trying 35 grains lately, for white-tail Deer and it is also very accurate. I think it mainly comes down to the ability of the guy holding more so than the amount of powder, though I imagine there is a point in which too much powder definitely effects accuracy regardless of one's ability to hold. Laz.

September 10, 2006, 03:48 PM	#4
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	Sorry guys, I had a brain issue: I meant to say Amerian Pioneer Powder FFFG. This stuff used to be sold under "clean shot" . Can't find much on the internet and the American Pioneer Web Site is not help, just has a few pictures and a claim of "10,000 shots without cleaning". I find that hard to believe. Looks like very few people use it.

September 10, 2006, 06:33 PM	#5
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Clean Shot works fine in my rifles using moderate to heavy loads, but I've read that American Pioneer Powder produces lower velocity in pistol length barrels. It must have a different pressure curve than the other powders, but who's to say that's so bad? Maybe some people prefer lower target velocities for precision shooting. I bought some of the Pioneer Powder recently but I haven't shot any yet, so I can't say if it shoots exactly the same as the earlier production Clean Shot does. Here's another thread where someone asked about it, if I come across any chronograph data I'll post it: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217213

September 11, 2006, 12:21 AM	#6
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Thanks for the picture & info. mec! There's been quite a few threads that refer to American Pioneer Powder on www.thehighroad.org. Some offered bits of information about easy clean up with soap and water or with alcohol. You can go there and do the search yourself by going to "advanced search", entering "American Pioneer Powder" and by specifying "blackpowder shooting forum". Some of the threads refer to APP, some to Clean shot, and some to Goex Pinnacle made by APP but which Goex claimed was different (i.e.-blacker in color). So it's important to distinguish when reading reference threads that it's similiar but not quite the same as APP, even though some people refer to it as APP. Most people admit that it's not as powerful, but these figures show it can be when used in a revolver cylinder that hold a larger volume of powder. Here's one: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.ph...Pioneer+Powder

September 11, 2006, 07:19 AM	#7
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...=goex+pinnacle Here's a thread onf pinnacle. Its a bit more energetic than American Pioneer but not nearly as consistent. It seemed to be gaining in shot to shot consistency in the dragoon chambers but was unsuitable for any other revolver.

September 11, 2006, 08:44 AM	#8
drdirk Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2004 Location: houston, tx Posts: 179	Thanks for the responses. I also did a search on thehighroad and it looks like mixed reviews. Will give it a try!