what would you do? - Page 2

Double Naught Spy · July 20, 2011, 09:59 AM

Quote:

...so I would be watching the eyes they will tell you if its going to attack or not and if they look mean I SHOT TO KILL!

So you are basing your need to shoot on a personality assessment of the wolf's eyes which are supposed to tell you, therefore, if it is going to attack based on whether or not they look mean? I am sorry to say that there isn't any literature to back up your pre-attack criteria, especially for a person who has little or no actual experience in dealing directly with wolves and learning to read personality traits based on eye looks.

Quote:

MARKJ are you SERIOUS about what you said? there are plenty of people who get killed by WOLVES and MT.LIONS. There was a hiker in Canada who was EATEN BY these gentle creatures or how about the lions SNACKING on the hikers of CA. where there PROTECTED.

Plenty of people? Let's not quite stretch the truth too far. I bet you can't document more than 20 in the last century in North America, but I will help.

Yes, people have been attacked and some have been eaten, but the addition to mountain lions to your discussion to bolster your argument by noting the increased risk of wildlife isn't relavant to the issue of wolves proper. Yes, markj mentioned them, but with tigers and bears and in jest.

However, back to wolves.

Wiki has a nice summary. Nobody likes Wiki, but in looking through the references, the information compiled here does not appear to be in error.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans
In short, it says attacks are rare.

Other refs...
http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

Once again, attacks are very rare. Deaths of humans even rarer.

This is interesting. It is an alledged, unwitnessed attack and kill where the experts have differing opinions on whether the culprit was a wolf or not...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskat...f-verdict.html
It does note no documented human deaths by wolves in North America at the time.

Women killed...
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/1...ft-behind.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7060961.ece

And just for the record, mountain lion attacks are rare as well. They are quite newsworthy and dramatic. Keep in mind the 10s of millions of people who engage in outdoor activities in or near the habitats of mountain lions such as hiking, exploring, camping, hunting, jogging, biking, etc., not to mention all the folks who live in said habitat.
http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html

Skadoosh · July 20, 2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

so I would be watching the eyes they will tell you if its going to attack or not and if they look mean I SHOT TO KILL!

My neighbor's unneutered weimaraner has cold dead eyes that look at me through the slats of the privacy fence that seperates me from his fangs. Pretty frightening actually...

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 01:14 PM

At 18 years old I was the sole "non family caretaker" for a guy's exotic cat yard. On this yard he had cats ranging from the tiny "Egyptian Jungle Cat" to the lion. In between was bob cats, a lynx, several cougars, a jaguar and tigers and probably some I forgot.

These were cats that had been raised and handled their whole life. But I learned that they had only a slight respect for their owner and none for me...

They weren't panting all cute for a "pet pet" they were freakin' tasting the air! I challenge anyone to prove to me that they can "read" a predatory mammal... May get it right some of the time but you won't get it right all of the time...

Me??? Like I said... I ain't in the business of bein' the "critter shrink" nor am I in the business of offering any of my 2000 body parts to a predator for a snack!

Brent

Scorch · July 20, 2011, 01:37 PM

I find the whole premise as outlined by the OP as being ludicrous. OK, let's see: I am walking through the woods, right? And I am packing a 44 Mag, right? And suddenly, I see a WOLF!!!!! Well, in the real world, you would likely never see it because they are cautious of humans (like most predators). But let's say I do see a wolf, for argument's sake. I do a quick check: no, I am not wearing a red cape with a hood, nor am I on the way to Grandma's house with cookies or a small flask; I am not a Gingerbread Boy nor am I a Little Pig (well OK, maybe, but let's just say I'm not). Now answer me this: why in the world would you think the wolf is going to attack you? Because that is the only reason you would have for shooting a protected animal, if your life is in danger. OK, if the wolf is acting aggressive, you might be justified in shooting it, otherwise just enjoy the sighting. And if you do resort to shooting it, call a Game Warden right away and report it (and be ready to get asked some serious questions). And believe me, they have very little sense of humor when doing investigations.

I have hunted and fished all over the West for about 30 years (since before the wolf restoration started), and even though I am sure there are wolves in some of the areas I frequent, I have never had an encounter with one. Coyotes, yes. Badgers, yes. Bobcats, weasels (the little furry ones and the hairless two-legged ones), yes. Range cattle, yes (now those do scare me). Wolves, never.

roberto mervicini · July 20, 2011, 02:58 PM

hunt and fish on a remote area in Quebec province for over 13 yrs. For the first 10 years hardly no one else use the area, 7 mile of narrow and very very bad trail at places almost not existing... to the top of the mountain, 3 lake on the top, paradise for moose, black bear and wolf. At time hunters try to drive up, but after the first mile even the brave turn around...
the first 2 years I tent, the 3 yr I build a box cabin.!
In all this time only seeing a timber wolf once and he was running away from me. I ear them many time at dusk or in the night, seeing many fresh tracks and escrements in the mud of the trails, but they where like gost!.
However in our woods I always carri a short shoot gun outside hunting season, (handguns not allowed in the province outside gunclubs) and If feel threatened by bear or wolf I would not esitate to take them out.
I rather give my explaination to a judge than to St.Peter!!
______
roberto

markj · July 20, 2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

MARKJ are you SERIOUS about what you said? there are plenty of people who get killed by WOLVES

Get a grip, that gal was killed not eaten by yotes not wolves. Lions surely do eat kids in California, but show me one just one documented human wolf attack. Then go out in the woods like I do and see for yourself what them mean ol wolves will do. I said it before, every wolf I ever saw was headed the other way.

Get yer facts right, then come talk to me. I am outdoors every day, not in some city reading internets myths.

Just like the wolves eating the caribou, reality found that hunters were killing them and leaving them there taking their antlers.

JACK308 · July 20, 2011, 04:45 PM

Well MARKJ GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT MAN BEFORE YOU MOUTH OFF TO ME! MAYBE THERE NOT MANY WOLVEES IN IOWA BUT DONT COMPARE IOWA TO THE UPPER PARTS OF WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN WHERE THER ALOT! and he person in Canada that was KILLED by WOLVES she was to EATEN SO YOU GET A GRIP THERE MAN!

myshoulderissore · July 20, 2011, 04:49 PM

Woah, man. Just a forum, don't let your blood pressure get you over the internet.

bullethole1 · July 20, 2011, 05:08 PM

Whatever you do,do not look eyes to eyes with the wolf,that shows you are a threat to the wolf, from what Ive heard and seen. I would definitely shoot it. For crying out loud it could be rabid but not showing signs just yet.

Im more scared of confronting a Sow feral hog with piglets. That lady can get pretty darn mean. Pitbulls are known to be vicious dangerous dogs,therefore if you can shoot a pit bull if they are a threat then you can certainly kill any other animal if they are a threat,Im scared of rabid animals. 10 years ago I seen a racoon during the afternoon,I think they usually come out at night,he was coming towards me as if it was drunk stumbling around.I was thankful that I had my regular farm rifle (.22 Mag) with me. I quickly shot it with iron sights then put it in a bag with a shovel making sure I did not touch it and took it to the vet the next day. It turned out that the racoon tested positive for rabies. I then had all my dogs and cats tested as well and they were fine.

Double Naught Spy · July 20, 2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Well MARKJ GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT MAN BEFORE YOU MOUTH OFF TO ME! MAYBE THERE NOT MANY WOLVEES IN IOWA BUT DONT COMPARE IOWA TO THE UPPER PARTS OF WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN WHERE THER ALOT! and he person in Canada that was KILLED by WOLVES she was to EATEN SO YOU GET A GRIP THERE MAN!

Well Jack, I got my facts straight and the facts are that very few people are hurt by wolves, much less than by mountain lions and mountain lions hurt fewer people than bears and even then bears don't hurt all that many people.

So what woman was eaten by wolves in Canada? Personally, whether or not a person is eaten by wolves doesn't bother me one way or the other. Once dead, they are potentially food for a variety of higher and lower organisms. The troubling part is the killing, not the eating.

Quote:

but show me one just one documented human wolf attack.

Markj, I already posted a whole bunch of them.

Quote:

Just like the wolves eating the caribou, reality found that hunters were killing them and leaving them there taking their antlers.

Wolves do hunt and eat caribou. That is a fact. They hunt and eat deer, elk, moose, and even mice and rats. Wolves may gladly scavenge kills by human trophy hunters, but they will hunt and eat caribou.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0E6geAq1k8
http://animal.discovery.com/videos/n...ou-calves.html
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1376732

youp · July 20, 2011, 08:02 PM

Shoot, shovel, and SHUT UP

JACK308 · July 20, 2011, 08:21 PM

he only thing is when I go hunting in the woods I dont bring a shovel with me youp but that the SMART THING TO DO!

Double Naught Spy · July 20, 2011, 09:02 PM

So Jack, you can't document the woman being eaten in Canada?

bigkrackers · July 20, 2011, 09:47 PM

To the op: two things - your excessive use of caps is annoying. Second, I don't think you're serious at all. "look into it's eyes"!? Watch Beastmaster much? I laughed so hard at that my wife had to pause the dvr. You'd be better off planing what you're going to do after wining the lotto than getting attacked by a wolf in the wild. In fact, you're probably more likely to be attacked by a wolf at a zoo than in the wild. Google "wolf killed at Minneapolis zoo".

Someone needs to put this thread down.

MLeake · July 20, 2011, 10:50 PM

DNS, I think he was referring to a fatal attack in Alaska in 2010. The woman's name was Candice Berner. She was a 32yo teacher, who went jogging by herself on a road near Chignik Lake.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35913715...laska-village/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...adly-pack.html

So, yes, this does happen - but it's a very rare occurrence.

And, yes, the OP uses CAPS too much.

Buzzcook · July 20, 2011, 11:53 PM

I travel with smaller weaker people just for this eventuality. Throw the little people to the wolf and head off on your business.

hogdogs · July 21, 2011, 12:00 AM

Buzz, That is wrong on so many levels!

I don't show prejudice against the little short meek folks... I just tell them they need to wear steel toe chest waders "for the swamp"... This way I don't throw them to the wolves getting a guilty conscience... I don't have to out run the wolves... just the slow guy in the goofy boots/pants!

Brent

jgcoastie · July 21, 2011, 01:58 AM

While oversized wolf populations are a problem in a couple of states (parts of Alaska for sure, I seem to remember something about Wyoming too though?) I seriously doubt this would ever be a realistic situation for anyone. After all, if wolves were so prone to attacking humans, then it would be a lot easier to get close to them to knock down the population in AK where wolves have done a number on caribou herds in recent years...

JACK308, you need to calm down. This is an internet forum that promotes the responsible ownership and use of firearms. It is also a family-friendly site, so please mind your manners and post in good taste.

FYI, rude and insulting language directed towards long-standing, respected members is no way to make friends around here.

hogdogs · July 21, 2011, 02:04 AM

Quote:

FYI, rude and insulting language directed towards long-standing, respected members is no way to make friends around here.

Not to mention the mods address these issues "with a quickness"...

Brent

jgcoastie · July 21, 2011, 02:13 AM

Yup.

Isn't it past your bedtime Brent?

hogdogs · July 21, 2011, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Isn't it past your bedtime Brent?

God Yes it is!!! Been up since 4:30 am most of the day spent chasin' my little 1.33 year old grand daughter!

Fittin' to hit the hay!
Brent

MLeake · July 21, 2011, 05:12 AM

... is generally not a recommended tactic, unless you are deliberately challenging for Alpha status.

The recommended body language for avoiding trouble is to look slightly offset from it, not eye to eye, while calmly backing away in a semi-circular arc. Linear motions, forward or backward, can be considered aggressive or prey-like.

Just an FYI.

Edit: Believe it or not, yawning is also a de-escalatory tactic. Canids do this to try to chill each other out. It's canine for, "Relax, dude."

SurplusShooter · July 21, 2011, 06:33 AM

Wolves usually go in packs of in upwards of 6 so if you see one there are bond to be others. That said if wolves see one of there own get killed their self preservation will make the back off as animals do not want harm to come to the as it is almost a death sentence in the wilderness. Finally if it was me or them I will do my best to make it them.

zincwarrior · July 21, 2011, 06:40 AM

Quote:

I travel with smaller weaker people just for this eventuality. Throw the little people to the wolf and head off on your business.

Remember, you don't have to be fastest, just faster than your friend.

40caljustice · July 21, 2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

So Jack, you can't document the woman being eaten in Canada?

I think the attack you are thinking about was a coyote attack on a Canadian Singer who went on a hike with her family. Now I say coyote but it's what they are starting to call a "Northeastern Coyote". Its a lot bigger and more aggressive coyote/wolf that has been taking over from Michigan to Maine and as far south as Pennsylvania. These hybrid coyotes can be up to 40 pounds heavier than full blood coyotes. (Correct me if I'm wrong fellas. I'm trying to go off memory.)

Google Canadian Singer killed by coyote. I'm sure its what you are talking about. If not I apologize.

July 20, 2011, 01:37 PM	#29
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I find the whole premise as outlined by the OP as being ludicrous. OK, let's see: I am walking through the woods, right? And I am packing a 44 Mag, right? And suddenly, I see a WOLF!!!!! Well, in the real world, you would likely never see it because they are cautious of humans (like most predators). But let's say I do see a wolf, for argument's sake. I do a quick check: no, I am not wearing a red cape with a hood, nor am I on the way to Grandma's house with cookies or a small flask; I am not a Gingerbread Boy nor am I a Little Pig (well OK, maybe, but let's just say I'm not). Now answer me this: why in the world would you think the wolf is going to attack you? Because that is the only reason you would have for shooting a protected animal, if your life is in danger. OK, if the wolf is acting aggressive, you might be justified in shooting it, otherwise just enjoy the sighting. And if you do resort to shooting it, call a Game Warden right away and report it (and be ready to get asked some serious questions). And believe me, they have very little sense of humor when doing investigations. I have hunted and fished all over the West for about 30 years (since before the wolf restoration started), and even though I am sure there are wolves in some of the areas I frequent, I have never had an encounter with one. Coyotes, yes. Badgers, yes. Bobcats, weasels (the little furry ones and the hairless two-legged ones), yes. Range cattle, yes (now those do scare me). Wolves, never. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

July 20, 2011, 08:02 PM	#36
youp Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Location: south of Canada, eh? Posts: 438	Shoot, shovel, and SHUT UP __________________ Use enough gun.

July 20, 2011, 09:02 PM	#38
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	So Jack, you can't document the woman being eaten in Canada? __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

July 21, 2011, 01:58 AM	#43
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	While oversized wolf populations are a problem in a couple of states (parts of Alaska for sure, I seem to remember something about Wyoming too though?) I seriously doubt this would ever be a realistic situation for anyone. After all, if wolves were so prone to attacking humans, then it would be a lot easier to get close to them to knock down the population in AK where wolves have done a number on caribou herds in recent years... JACK308, you need to calm down. This is an internet forum that promotes the responsible ownership and use of firearms. It is also a family-friendly site, so please mind your manners and post in good taste. FYI, rude and insulting language directed towards long-standing, respected members is no way to make friends around here. __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights. Last edited by jgcoastie; July 21, 2011 at 02:12 AM.

July 21, 2011, 02:13 AM	#45
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	Yup. Isn't it past your bedtime Brent? __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

July 20, 2011, 01:14 PM	#28
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	At 18 years old I was the sole "non family caretaker" for a guy's exotic cat yard. On this yard he had cats ranging from the tiny "Egyptian Jungle Cat" to the lion. In between was bob cats, a lynx, several cougars, a jaguar and tigers and probably some I forgot. These were cats that had been raised and handled their whole life. But I learned that they had only a slight respect for their owner and none for me... They weren't panting all cute for a "pet pet" they were freakin' tasting the air! I challenge anyone to prove to me that they can "read" a predatory mammal... May get it right some of the time but you won't get it right all of the time... Me??? Like I said... I ain't in the business of bein' the "critter shrink" nor am I in the business of offering any of my 2000 body parts to a predator for a snack! Brent

July 20, 2011, 02:58 PM	#30
roberto mervicini Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: Laval, Quebec, Canada Posts: 151	hunt and fish on a remote area in Quebec province for over 13 yrs. For the first 10 years hardly no one else use the area, 7 mile of narrow and very very bad trail at places almost not existing... to the top of the mountain, 3 lake on the top, paradise for moose, black bear and wolf. At time hunters try to drive up, but after the first mile even the brave turn around... the first 2 years I tent, the 3 yr I build a box cabin.! In all this time only seeing a timber wolf once and he was running away from me. I ear them many time at dusk or in the night, seeing many fresh tracks and escrements in the mud of the trails, but they where like gost!. However in our woods I always carri a short shoot gun outside hunting season, (handguns not allowed in the province outside gunclubs) and If feel threatened by bear or wolf I would not esitate to take them out. I rather give my explaination to a judge than to St.Peter!! ______ roberto

July 20, 2011, 04:45 PM	#32
JACK308 Junior member Join Date: July 10, 2011 Posts: 377	Well MARKJ GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT MAN BEFORE YOU MOUTH OFF TO ME! MAYBE THERE NOT MANY WOLVEES IN IOWA BUT DONT COMPARE IOWA TO THE UPPER PARTS OF WISCONSIN AND MICHIGAN WHERE THER ALOT! and he person in Canada that was KILLED by WOLVES she was to EATEN SO YOU GET A GRIP THERE MAN!

July 20, 2011, 04:49 PM	#33
myshoulderissore Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 447	Woah, man. Just a forum, don't let your blood pressure get you over the internet.

July 20, 2011, 05:08 PM	#34
bullethole1 Junior member Join Date: June 8, 2011 Location: San Antonio , Texas Posts: 253	Whatever you do,do not look eyes to eyes with the wolf,that shows you are a threat to the wolf, from what Ive heard and seen. I would definitely shoot it. For crying out loud it could be rabid but not showing signs just yet. Im more scared of confronting a Sow feral hog with piglets. That lady can get pretty darn mean. Pitbulls are known to be vicious dangerous dogs,therefore if you can shoot a pit bull if they are a threat then you can certainly kill any other animal if they are a threat,Im scared of rabid animals. 10 years ago I seen a racoon during the afternoon,I think they usually come out at night,he was coming towards me as if it was drunk stumbling around.I was thankful that I had my regular farm rifle (.22 Mag) with me. I quickly shot it with iron sights then put it in a bag with a shovel making sure I did not touch it and took it to the vet the next day. It turned out that the racoon tested positive for rabies. I then had all my dogs and cats tested as well and they were fine.

July 20, 2011, 08:21 PM	#37
JACK308 Junior member Join Date: July 10, 2011 Posts: 377	he only thing is when I go hunting in the woods I dont bring a shovel with me youp but that the SMART THING TO DO!

July 20, 2011, 09:47 PM	#39
bigkrackers Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2011 Location: Minnesota Posts: 117	To the op: two things - your excessive use of caps is annoying. Second, I don't think you're serious at all. "look into it's eyes"!? Watch Beastmaster much? I laughed so hard at that my wife had to pause the dvr. You'd be better off planing what you're going to do after wining the lotto than getting attacked by a wolf in the wild. In fact, you're probably more likely to be attacked by a wolf at a zoo than in the wild. Google "wolf killed at Minneapolis zoo". Someone needs to put this thread down.

July 20, 2011, 10:50 PM	#40
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	DNS, I think he was referring to a fatal attack in Alaska in 2010. The woman's name was Candice Berner. She was a 32yo teacher, who went jogging by herself on a road near Chignik Lake. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35913715...laska-village/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...adly-pack.html So, yes, this does happen - but it's a very rare occurrence. And, yes, the OP uses CAPS too much.

July 20, 2011, 11:53 PM	#41
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	I travel with smaller weaker people just for this eventuality. Throw the little people to the wolf and head off on your business.

July 21, 2011, 12:00 AM	#42
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Buzz, That is wrong on so many levels! I don't show prejudice against the little short meek folks... I just tell them they need to wear steel toe chest waders "for the swamp"... This way I don't throw them to the wolves getting a guilty conscience... I don't have to out run the wolves... just the slow guy in the goofy boots/pants! Brent

July 21, 2011, 05:12 AM	#47
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Staring canines in the eyes... ... is generally not a recommended tactic, unless you are deliberately challenging for Alpha status. The recommended body language for avoiding trouble is to look slightly offset from it, not eye to eye, while calmly backing away in a semi-circular arc. Linear motions, forward or backward, can be considered aggressive or prey-like. Just an FYI. Edit: Believe it or not, yawning is also a de-escalatory tactic. Canids do this to try to chill each other out. It's canine for, "Relax, dude."

July 21, 2011, 06:33 AM	#48
SurplusShooter Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: Upstate,New york Posts: 308	Wolves usually go in packs of in upwards of 6 so if you see one there are bond to be others. That said if wolves see one of there own get killed their self preservation will make the back off as animals do not want harm to come to the as it is almost a death sentence in the wilderness. Finally if it was me or them I will do my best to make it them.