40 s&w and red dot powder

bear-fighter · April 29, 2009, 11:16 PM

I have some 40 cal 155 grain jhp loaded with 5.5 grains of red dot

c.o.l. is 1.120

what would the pressures be for this load and is it safe to shoot?

thanks in advance

zxcvbob · April 29, 2009, 11:52 PM

Quickload says it's >50000 psi (assuming Hornady HP/XTP bullet.) However, Alliant's reloading guide says 5.9 is a max load with 150 grain JHP and 1.105" overall length.

So I don't know if it's safe or not, but I wouldn't start that high. Where did you get the load data?

bear-fighter · April 30, 2009, 09:15 AM

I got the load from the old alliant site about 3 to 4 years ago.

I'm thinking that I have some bullets to pull

thanks for your input

Dragon55 · April 30, 2009, 09:18 AM

Whooooooooaaa pull the bullets!!

45Marlin carbine · April 30, 2009, 09:23 AM

seems that's pushing it a bit but maybe fire them one-at-a-time chambered and check for pressure signs.
RD is a real good powder for cast slugs in every chambering I load for but haven't had much luck with jacketed slug loads.

Shoney · April 30, 2009, 04:19 PM

Here is that old data:
40SW 150Gr JHP
OAL___Bbl Length____Primer __________Powder_________(fps)____(psi)
1.105___4"_______Win. 1.5-108_____Red Dot 5.9gr.____1,155___34,000

The new manual does not list Red Dot for use in any 40SW load.

SAAMI pressure max for 40SW is 35,000 PSI

bear-fighter
You did not list your barrel length, but presuming it is 4". The increased OAL will result in a small reduction of pressure. With the reduction of the load from 5.8 gr for 150gr bullet to 5.5 for 155gr bullet, it is hard to extrapolate what the pressure will be.

Considering all the above, I think you would be wise to pull the loads, since there are no reliable pressure indicators until you get a KB.

bear-fighter · May 1, 2009, 08:30 AM

going to pull the bullets and reload 5 gr win 231
thanks for the help guys

SL1 · May 1, 2009, 09:24 AM

You need to tell us what bullet you are using. I get 50,000 psi for the Hornady XTP HP and 38,000 psi for the Speer GD HP, USING DEFAULT VALUES in QuickLOAD.

Since those two are the only JHPs in the 155 grain .400 data for QuickLOAD, what we REALLY need is the length of YOUR bullets.

This is an excellent example of why you need to be very careful in substituting bullets. With a small change in case volume between the QuickLOAD data and YOUR case, it is possible that the load would be a safe max for the GD bullet, but still be WAY over pressure for the XTP bullet. A small difference in bullet length (0.060" in this example) makes a LOT of difference in pressure.

I also checked the load posted here as the old Alliant data. With the 150 grain Nosler and Sierra JHPs, they come out to 44,400 and 46,600 psi respectively, due to a 0.012" difference in length. Those are way over the 35,000 psi SAAMI limit. They are indicated as compressed loads by QuickLOAD.

Since QuickLOAD's default case capacities are typically a little lower than most that I measure, I tried to see what case capacity would need to be in order for this Alliant data to match SAAMI pressure specs. I got 21.5 grains of water, compared to the QuickLOAD default of 19.3 grains, that is an 11.4% increase. Not likely, so I'm not so sure that those Alliant data is OK.

My R-P .40 S&W cases measure 20.2 grains water capacity. That would be enough capacity to make the 5.5 grain load with the 155 grain GD bullets at 1.120" COL meet SAAMI pressure specs, but would leave the XTP a few thousand psi over.

So, if you want DECENT pressure estimates, you need to give us BOTH your bullet length AND the water capacity of a fired and resized case. If you measure your water capacity, also tell us the case length for the case you measured capacity. We need to adjust that to match the case length in the calc. to get the right result.

SL1

April 29, 2009, 11:16 PM	#1
bear-fighter Junior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Posts: 6	40 s&w and red dot powder I have some 40 cal 155 grain jhp loaded with 5.5 grains of red dot c.o.l. is 1.120 what would the pressures be for this load and is it safe to shoot? thanks in advance

April 29, 2009, 11:52 PM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Quickload says it's >50000 psi (assuming Hornady HP/XTP bullet.) However, Alliant's reloading guide says 5.9 is a max load with 150 grain JHP and 1.105" overall length. So I don't know if it's safe or not, but I wouldn't start that high. Where did you get the load data? __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

April 30, 2009, 09:18 AM	#4
Dragon55 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 811	Whooooooooaaa pull the bullets!! __________________ sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W

April 30, 2009, 04:19 PM	#6
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Here is that old data: 40SW 150Gr JHP OAL___Bbl Length____Primer __________Powder_________(fps)____(psi) 1.105___4"_______Win. 1.5-108_____Red Dot 5.9gr.____1,155___34,000 The new manual does not list Red Dot for use in any 40SW load. SAAMI pressure max for 40SW is 35,000 PSI bear-fighter You did not list your barrel length, but presuming it is 4". The increased OAL will result in a small reduction of pressure. With the reduction of the load from 5.8 gr for 150gr bullet to 5.5 for 155gr bullet, it is hard to extrapolate what the pressure will be. Considering all the above, I think you would be wise to pull the loads, since there are no reliable pressure indicators until you get a KB. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

April 30, 2009, 09:15 AM	#3
bear-fighter Junior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Posts: 6	I got the load from the old alliant site about 3 to 4 years ago. I'm thinking that I have some bullets to pull thanks for your input

April 30, 2009, 09:23 AM	#5
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	seems that's pushing it a bit but maybe fire them one-at-a-time chambered and check for pressure signs. RD is a real good powder for cast slugs in every chambering I load for but haven't had much luck with jacketed slug loads.

May 1, 2009, 08:30 AM	#7
bear-fighter Junior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Posts: 6	going to pull the bullets and reload 5 gr win 231 thanks for the help guys

May 1, 2009, 09:24 AM	#8
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	You need to tell us what bullet you are using. I get 50,000 psi for the Hornady XTP HP and 38,000 psi for the Speer GD HP, USING DEFAULT VALUES in QuickLOAD. Since those two are the only JHPs in the 155 grain .400 data for QuickLOAD, what we REALLY need is the length of YOUR bullets. This is an excellent example of why you need to be very careful in substituting bullets. With a small change in case volume between the QuickLOAD data and YOUR case, it is possible that the load would be a safe max for the GD bullet, but still be WAY over pressure for the XTP bullet. A small difference in bullet length (0.060" in this example) makes a LOT of difference in pressure. I also checked the load posted here as the old Alliant data. With the 150 grain Nosler and Sierra JHPs, they come out to 44,400 and 46,600 psi respectively, due to a 0.012" difference in length. Those are way over the 35,000 psi SAAMI limit. They are indicated as compressed loads by QuickLOAD. Since QuickLOAD's default case capacities are typically a little lower than most that I measure, I tried to see what case capacity would need to be in order for this Alliant data to match SAAMI pressure specs. I got 21.5 grains of water, compared to the QuickLOAD default of 19.3 grains, that is an 11.4% increase. Not likely, so I'm not so sure that those Alliant data is OK. My R-P .40 S&W cases measure 20.2 grains water capacity. That would be enough capacity to make the 5.5 grain load with the 155 grain GD bullets at 1.120" COL meet SAAMI pressure specs, but would leave the XTP a few thousand psi over. So, if you want DECENT pressure estimates, you need to give us BOTH your bullet length AND the water capacity of a fired and resized case. If you measure your water capacity, also tell us the case length for the case you measured capacity. We need to adjust that to match the case length in the calc. to get the right result. SL1