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Old August 19, 2006, 03:25 PM   #1
Ben Shepherd
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357 Maximum load(Calling WESHOOT2-AGAIN)

OK I'm a bit miffed here.....

I can't for the life of me get my 357 max blackhawk under 3 inches at 25 yards.

Gun checks out fine in every way. Brass mikes out ok, etc. All the mechanical/mathmatical stuff checks out fine. And it's not me having an off day either, as I picked up other guns with proven loads and they were as acurate as ever. At this point I am begining to suspect that D@#$ remington brass I have to use.

Without going into a lot of Q&A stuff here, can someone here recommend a load that is a proven preformer in thiers?

That way I have a starting point that I know has worked for someone.

Thanks
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Old August 19, 2006, 03:51 PM   #2
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since you don't mention much about the load , I will say use 158 grain or heavier bullets with 2400 or 4227 powder. I use remington brass and it shoots just fine in a 14 TC
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Old August 19, 2006, 04:04 PM   #3
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20 grains of H4227 and a 180 grain jacketed bullet with no crimp shoots about a 1 inch group at fifty yards out of my 10 inch Contender.
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Old August 19, 2006, 04:10 PM   #4
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Thanks for the quick responses.

I agree on the 158 or better slugs(If I want POI/POA to match that is) and the 2400 or slower powder. That's what I'm doing. But nothing seems to be meshing at the moment.

As for the no crimp, I really don't want a single shot six-shooter.

Keep 'em comin. And thanks.
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Old August 19, 2006, 04:48 PM   #5
Peter M. Eick
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Ben is yours the 10 inch or the 8 inch barrel?

I bought an 8 inch Ruger SBH a few weeks back and am just working up my first loads. I chose to start with 20.5 grns of IMR and H 4227 with a rem 158 JHP and Rem brass with the WSR primer. I hope to try them out soon but tomorrow is not looking good with to much work around the house.
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Old August 19, 2006, 04:51 PM   #6
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Eight inch.

The reason that this has me so cranked is this:

I am a 357 magnum FREAK.(I own more than a dozen pistols and a couple rifles in this caliber.) I can make that caliber do anything I want without much trouble, in any of my guns.

I have over 30 different 357 mag loads that will stay at or under 1" at 25 yards in any of my guns. But add the case length of the maximum and it all goes to pot? Come on now.
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Old August 19, 2006, 04:56 PM   #7
Peter M. Eick
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Yeah I have a bunch of S&W N frame 357 Mags myself. I bought the max just to see what it can do. My first time at the range with my hottest 357 mag loads in the Max I was able to shoot about a 2" 50 shot group at 15 yards. I think at 25 yards I could do better with more tailored loads and some mastery of the SBH grips. Your gun sounds identical to mine.

Let me know how it works out for you.
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Old August 19, 2006, 05:01 PM   #8
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I have trouble being consistent with the blackhawk grips.

But this is way beyond a slightly inconsistent grip issue. Post your results would you?
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Old August 22, 2006, 05:16 AM   #9
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1) New trimmed cases? (can try Starline)

2) Which powders? (some can be very temp-sensitive in that long case)

3) Crimp? (yo know my answer to that one)

4) Which primers? (I have read that a switch to WSPM can increase pressure significantly)

5) Which bullets have you tested? (heavy lead from Penn)

When all else fail, suggest first cleaning barrel and cylinder with a KLEEN-BORE Lead-Away cloth-cut patch or four (remember they eat bluing), then a thorough conventional cleaning, then a saturated patch of TetraGun Oil, then after drying a few clean patches; maybe you have a troubled bore?


I have never tried this cartridge, although I know a few who have......
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Last edited by WESHOOT2; August 22, 2006 at 05:20 AM. Reason: 'cause I thought of something else
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Old August 22, 2006, 08:20 AM   #10
Ben Shepherd
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Using federal small rifle primers.
New trimmed and sized remington cases.
Good crimp with "profile" die.

Used h4227, 296, n110, 2400. Even a little blue dot. Haven't tried AA7 or
AA9 yet.

Gun is SQUEAKY clean. And mechanically checks out fine(though I am not a gunsmith).

Bullets have been 180XTP, 180 Rem. SJHP, 158XTP, and 158 lazer-cast SWC.

Looking at this, I think a primer switch is the next switch up needed, ey?

Currently I don't believe starline is making this case. Not shown on thier website, and no e-mail response.

Some of those hammerheads may be tempting me shortly though.
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Old August 26, 2006, 05:08 AM   #11
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two things

Slug the bore (along with chamber throats).

Examine very carefully for erosion in the first inch of barrel......
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Old August 26, 2006, 09:56 AM   #12
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I was thinking the same thing as WESHOOT2, with more emphasis on the chamber throats. My Ruger SRH in .454 Casull has chamber throats that go 0.454-0.455", and although Ruger replied to my inquiry that those dimensions are within their specs, they really should go 0.452". I had mediocre accuracy until I went with a cast bullet that was sized 0.454".

Now, I realize that we are talking about two entirely different firearms ... manufactured a generation apart, but your .357 Max may have the same disease. So check the chamber throats and slug the bore to see if the numbers check out.

As a test load, I would suggest something at the opposite end of the spectrum. Whenever I have a .357 that is not behaving, I try a Hornady 148 gr. HBWC with 3.2 gr. of Winchester Superlite. No reason why you couldn't try this with the Max, and any fast powder should provide good results (Bullseye, Red Dot, W231, AA#2, etc., I just use Superlite because I have a bunch) ... somewhere in the 4.0 gr. range would probably be about right.
You may need to tip the barrel upward to position the powder against the primer in the long case after every shot for consistency.

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Old August 31, 2006, 08:06 AM   #13
Ben Shepherd
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Gentlemen: I AM AN IDIOT. Maybe I should try one of my best 357 mag loads. Ya think?

If it will group in the maximum, fine. If it won't, most likely the gun.

Someone have a brick? My skull needs to meet it.
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Last edited by Ben Shepherd; August 31, 2006 at 11:34 AM.
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Old September 4, 2006, 08:27 AM   #14
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well?

I know I wanna know how did it go.....
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Old September 5, 2006, 09:17 AM   #15
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Due to work scedules, it's going to be a couple weeks before I will get more trigger time in.

Rest assured though- I will post an update.
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Old September 6, 2006, 11:34 AM   #16
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my favorite load out of the same gun is rem small rifle bench rest primer,rem case,hornady 180silh.bullet,20.5gr h110 powder.very accurate out of my blackhawk and my nef single shot rifle.in fact i will use this load deer season with the hornady xtp 180gr hollowpoint bullet.hope this helps don
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Old October 3, 2006, 04:57 PM   #17
Ben Shepherd
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Update:

It seems to be the brass!!! Blasted remington pistol brass!!!!! :barf: AGAIN!

My good 357 mag loads shoot fine.

Peter M. Eick: Seems as per your thread over on THR, you're having the same troubles I am?


SO:

As I posted over on THR, is anyone here willing to order 357 max brass from starline if I can lean on them hard enough to produce it? Let me know.

If I can't locate some good brass then my max either becomes a safe queen until I can find a supply of high quality brass, or goes out for a caliber conversion to 475 or 500 linebaugh.
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Last edited by Ben Shepherd; October 4, 2006 at 04:00 PM.
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Old October 5, 2006, 09:03 PM   #18
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I called Remington. They asked me to send back some samples and a letter. The guy on the phone said that the brass should not do that but he was basing his comments on my description. So far Remington and Midway have offered to make it right but Remington does want samples.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt here, but would like some Starline if available.
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Old October 6, 2006, 01:58 PM   #19
Ben Shepherd
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I'm most likely screwed. None of mine split, but the accuracy was TERRIBLE!!!

Doubt there's anything I can get them to do for me.
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Old October 6, 2006, 04:58 PM   #20
flyinbrian
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I bought 500 pieces of Max brass at least five years ago. The 100 that I am using now seem fine. I have a bag of 100 that you can try unless you are turned off by Remington.
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Old October 6, 2006, 07:18 PM   #21
Peter M. Eick
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I sorted out the rest of the first 200 I shot and found a bunch more partial splits or incipient failures. I would guess now that roughly 50% are failures on the first firing.

I did ship off a bunch of them to Remington today. I am now just convinced that we got a bad batch of brass and Remington will make it right. Midway emailed back and again offered to replace or credit my account for the brass. I have to tip my hat to Midway for their concern, follow through and service. I emailed them that I was trying to work it out with Remington and they fired back that if I am not satisfied to email or call them and they would make it right.

I will keep you posted on what Remington says. They should have the brass on tuesday.
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Old October 8, 2006, 07:33 PM   #22
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357 mag accurate load

I use 15.5 grains of Lil Gun behind a 180 Grain Hornady xtp for excellent 50yard groups,
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Old May 22, 2009, 10:33 AM   #23
JohnMK
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357 Maximum

I have had the exact same problem with a TC rifle barrel in 445 supermag. My 44 mags shot very well, but the 445 supermag would not group under 12 inches. It turned out to be an oversized barrel from TC's custom shop. I switched to a .431 lead bullet from Penn Bullets and am very happy now.
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