Dealer Stops Stocking Hi-Points...

johnwilliamson062 · October 23, 2012, 08:53 PM

Was making the rounds in Dayton today and stopped in every gun store I knew of or ran across. In one of the shops I asked why they weren't stocking Hi-points.

Not available?
Warranty problems?
No demand?
No availability?

Nope. They had too many ATFE trace requests for them.
I never heard of a dealer having trouble with the number of ATFE trace requests unless they found something else going on. It would obviously be a red flag for a reviewing agent though. I know they are cheap, but they aren't that much cheaper than the other cheap competitors. Really surprise me as I never heard a dealer talk about their trace numbers before.

gearchecker · October 23, 2012, 08:58 PM

Hi-Point, the gangsters pistol of choice.

Accurate at distance during a drive-by, Cheap, and disposable
I'm not surprised by the trace issues.

stumper1300 · October 23, 2012, 09:32 PM

Crooks have figured out they will go bang every time they pull the trigger.

orionengnr · October 23, 2012, 09:39 PM

There have been a number of laws passed against "Saturday Night Specials"
The definition is not necessarily a consistent one; ergo hey get to make the rules as they go along.

In the end. the Feds (and their local imitators) make up their own definitions.

Not saying it's right...but it is reality.

Cheapshooter · October 23, 2012, 09:42 PM

Maybe the Hi-Point is the choice of gang bangers because the ZAMAK slide is so heavy the gun automatically leans over to the "gangsta" hold!

**Tom Servo** · October 23, 2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

I never heard of a dealer having trouble with the number of ATFE trace requests unless they found something else going on

If a dealer gets more guns traced than other shops, he's likely to end up on the radar with law enforcement. It just takes one shooting for his name to get plastered on the evening news.
The Hi-Point pistols, due to their low cost, are disproportionately traced to crimes.

It's not pretty, but I can understand the math.

bitttorrrent · October 23, 2012, 10:40 PM

I cannot register mine in Chicago because it is a gang gun. Too reliable and too cheap I guess.

I keep it in Michigan cause if I was stopped here they would think I am a gang member.

osbornk · October 24, 2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

If a dealer gets more guns traced than other shops, he's likely to end up on the radar with law enforcement. It just takes one shooting for his name to get plastered on the evening news.
The Hi-Point pistols, due to their low cost, are disproportionately traced to crimes.

I suspect the gun shop has issues beyond Hi-Point inquiries that they are worrying about. They are probably on the radar as being a source for gangs and other criminals with the Hi-Points only being one aspect of it.

robertsig · October 24, 2012, 10:19 AM

I had to laugh a little. By getting rid of the Hi-Points, it's like making the gun store into a high-rent district or nice suburb. You'll get rid of the riffraff by virtue of having only higher priced guns.

Oh Reginald, did you see who moved in next door?!

Hiddenpiece · October 24, 2012, 10:38 AM

it could have something to do with this.....
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kt7ppRkHyAO-IQ

shortwave · October 24, 2012, 02:36 PM

It would be very interesting to get the TRUE stats on the number of crimes done specifically with HP's versus all other brands/types of handguns.

Coltman 77 · October 24, 2012, 03:45 PM

I'm shocked.

Cheap, gang banger pistols traced by the BATF? Amazing.

**Tom Servo** · October 24, 2012, 04:31 PM

They seem to have stopped publishing the data awhile back, but here's a general idea:

Quote:

10 most frequently traced guns in 1994

1 Lorcin P25 (3,223)
2 Davis Industries P380 (2,454)
3 Raven Arms MP25 (2,107)
4 Lorcin L25 (1,258)
5 Mossburg 500 (1,015)
6 Phoenix Arms Raven (959)
7 Jennings J22 (929)
8 Ruger P89 (895)
9 Glock 17 (843)
10 Bryco 38 (820)

Source: ATF, May 1995. [pdf file]

The industry has changed in some respects. Lorcin, Davis, Raven, Jennings, and Bryco are no longer around, and Hi-Point is a relative newcomer. However, the criminal MO hasn't changed much. If there's one common factor, it's price.

It's not the fault of Hi-Point or MKS Supply that their guns get used in crimes, but the low cost makes it an unfortunate consequence.

kcub · October 24, 2012, 07:23 PM

low profit margin

employee or owner having to waste time with trace instead of sales

makes good business sense to me to drop it

carguychris · October 24, 2012, 11:14 PM

Folks, keep in mind that a gun doesn't have to be used in a crime to get traced. The basic reason a gun is traced by the police is to identify the original owner, and in many cases, the reason this information is needed is that the gun was found abandoned- perhaps left in an apartment when the tenant was evicted, or found in a broken-down car that was towed to the auto pound.

This is perhaps the primary reason why gun trace data is worthless or highly misleading as an ad-hoc crime statistic. It also helps explain why trace data is often packed with cheap brand names; which do you think is more likely to be abandoned in a "no-tell" motel, a $1,800 Les Baer or a $100 Lorcin?

Eagleks · October 25, 2012, 01:01 AM

HiPoints & Glocks.

Pistolgripshotty · October 25, 2012, 04:16 AM

I like my hi-points...I love my mossbergs tho

SRH78 · October 25, 2012, 08:53 AM

Very good point Chris.

wild cat mccane · October 25, 2012, 01:47 PM

anecdotal evidence creates causation.

Hiddenpiece · October 25, 2012, 03:37 PM

mine have been great. no problems... except they didn't like steel cased wolf ammo.
i put 5 or 6 thousand rounds through both over the past 7 years or so..... without cleanin' them. not an easy gun to take down. finally cleaned both about a month ago.

i got these WAY before they were "gangsta" guns and promise you they ain't never been leaned over sideways when shot.

johnwilliamson062 · October 25, 2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

anecdotal evidence creates causation.

Could you expand on what anecdotal evidence you are referring to and what result is being linked to it?

marine6680 · October 25, 2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Could you expand on what anecdotal evidence you are referring to and what result is being linked to it?

Its just a generic statement valid in many situations.

"Causation by correlation" is a common logical fallacy.

Just because two things are somehow related, happened close to the same time, close to the same location, or otherwise can be linked... does not mean one caused the other.

johnwilliamson062 · October 25, 2012, 05:57 PM

I understand the causation by correlation bit, but not exactly what statement you are referring to.

Nanuk · October 25, 2012, 06:21 PM

I would have never noticed they quit selling highpoints.

Eghad · October 25, 2012, 09:11 PM

My local dealer sells Hi-Points. I saw one on the range it worked every time the guy pulled the trigger. From what I understand they come with a lifetime warranty. Even poor folks need a way to defend themselves. I remember going to a web site where they were putting them through a torture test. Seems they would brake. They would send em back the factory and get a new one.

I watched a video on you tube where the guys really tried to make it go kaboom. It was still shooting at the end of the video.

October 23, 2012, 08:53 PM	#1
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Dealer Stops Stocking Hi-Points... Was making the rounds in Dayton today and stopped in every gun store I knew of or ran across. In one of the shops I asked why they weren't stocking Hi-points. Not available? Warranty problems? No demand? No availability? Nope. They had too many ATFE trace requests for them. I never heard of a dealer having trouble with the number of ATFE trace requests unless they found something else going on. It would obviously be a red flag for a reviewing agent though. I know they are cheap, but they aren't that much cheaper than the other cheap competitors. Really surprise me as I never heard a dealer talk about their trace numbers before.

October 23, 2012, 08:58 PM	#2
gearchecker Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: North IDAHO, Big Bear Country Posts: 466	Hi-Point, the gangsters pistol of choice. Accurate at distance during a drive-by, Cheap, and disposable I'm not surprised by the trace issues. __________________ When the time comes that I don't want a new gun, Call the undertaker! My firearm is an investment on my life. http://www.takdriver.com http://www.corneredcat.com

October 23, 2012, 09:42 PM	#5
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Maybe the Hi-Point is the choice of gang bangers because the ZAMAK slide is so heavy the gun automatically leans over to the "gangsta" hold! __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

October 24, 2012, 10:38 AM	#10
Hiddenpiece Member Join Date: October 24, 2012 Location: OHIO Posts: 32	it could have something to do with this..... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...kt7ppRkHyAO-IQ __________________ Clint Eastwood: "the .44 magnum. the most powerful handgun in the world. it can blow a mans head clean off. in all this excitement i can't remember if i fired 5, or if i fired 6 shots. but you got to ask yourself this one question, do you feel lucky..... punk.... well, do ya?" john 3:16-17-18, romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8, 10:13

October 24, 2012, 03:45 PM	#12
Coltman 77 Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 1,244	I'm shocked. Cheap, gang banger pistols traced by the BATF? Amazing. __________________ "A man can be destroyed but not defeated". Ernest Hemingway Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA

October 23, 2012, 09:32 PM	#3
stumper1300 Member Join Date: June 18, 2012 Posts: 55	Crooks have figured out they will go bang every time they pull the trigger.

October 23, 2012, 09:39 PM	#4
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	There have been a number of laws passed against "Saturday Night Specials" The definition is not necessarily a consistent one; ergo hey get to make the rules as they go along. In the end. the Feds (and their local imitators) make up their own definitions. Not saying it's right...but it is reality.

October 23, 2012, 10:40 PM	#7
bitttorrrent Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Chicago Posts: 703	I cannot register mine in Chicago because it is a gang gun. Too reliable and too cheap I guess. I keep it in Michigan cause if I was stopped here they would think I am a gang member.

October 24, 2012, 10:19 AM	#9
robertsig Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 262	I had to laugh a little. By getting rid of the Hi-Points, it's like making the gun store into a high-rent district or nice suburb. You'll get rid of the riffraff by virtue of having only higher priced guns. Oh Reginald, did you see who moved in next door?!

October 24, 2012, 02:36 PM	#11
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	It would be very interesting to get the TRUE stats on the number of crimes done specifically with HP's versus all other brands/types of handguns.

October 24, 2012, 07:23 PM	#14
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,318	low profit margin employee or owner having to waste time with trace instead of sales makes good business sense to me to drop it

October 24, 2012, 11:14 PM	#15
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	Folks, keep in mind that a gun doesn't have to be used in a crime to get traced. The basic reason a gun is traced by the police is to identify the original owner, and in many cases, the reason this information is needed is that the gun was found abandoned- perhaps left in an apartment when the tenant was evicted, or found in a broken-down car that was towed to the auto pound. This is perhaps the primary reason why gun trace data is worthless or highly misleading as an ad-hoc crime statistic. It also helps explain why trace data is often packed with cheap brand names; which do you think is more likely to be abandoned in a "no-tell" motel, a $1,800 Les Baer or a $100 Lorcin? __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

October 25, 2012, 01:01 AM	#16
Eagleks Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 575	HiPoints & Glocks.

October 25, 2012, 04:16 AM	#17
Pistolgripshotty Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Somewhere out there Posts: 184	I like my hi-points...I love my mossbergs tho __________________ *12 Gauge Fury!*

October 25, 2012, 08:53 AM	#18
SRH78 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 517	Very good point Chris. __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

October 25, 2012, 01:47 PM	#19
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,629	anecdotal evidence creates causation.

October 25, 2012, 03:37 PM	#20
Hiddenpiece Member Join Date: October 24, 2012 Location: OHIO Posts: 32	mine have been great. no problems... except they didn't like steel cased wolf ammo. i put 5 or 6 thousand rounds through both over the past 7 years or so..... without cleanin' them. not an easy gun to take down. finally cleaned both about a month ago. i got these WAY before they were "gangsta" guns and promise you they ain't never been leaned over sideways when shot. __________________ Clint Eastwood: "the .44 magnum. the most powerful handgun in the world. it can blow a mans head clean off. in all this excitement i can't remember if i fired 5, or if i fired 6 shots. but you got to ask yourself this one question, do you feel lucky..... punk.... well, do ya?" john 3:16-17-18, romans 3:23, 6:23, 5:8, 10:13

October 25, 2012, 05:57 PM	#23
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I understand the causation by correlation bit, but not exactly what statement you are referring to.

October 25, 2012, 06:21 PM	#24
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	I would have never noticed they quit selling highpoints. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

October 25, 2012, 09:11 PM	#25
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	My local dealer sells Hi-Points. I saw one on the range it worked every time the guy pulled the trigger. From what I understand they come with a lifetime warranty. Even poor folks need a way to defend themselves. I remember going to a web site where they were putting them through a torture test. Seems they would brake. They would send em back the factory and get a new one. I watched a video on you tube where the guys really tried to make it go kaboom. It was still shooting at the end of the video. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member Last edited by Eghad; October 25, 2012 at 09:26 PM.