How To Limp Wrist

[Sturmgewehre]

Those videos got a new home:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA

Limp wristing most certainly does happen and it clearly happens more often with 9mm Glocks.

Why?

Simple. The Glock has the lightest frame of any of the guns used in the test. It's super light weight polymer frame offers little resistance to the slide as it tries to cycle during firing if the weapon isn't held with a firm grip. If a pistol has functional problems to begin with, say an improperly fitted 1911, it may FTF when "limp wristed". But a properly built steel frame gun like the 1911 would be VERY hard pressed to be limp wristed and have it fail to fire. It's heavier steel frame gives the slide something to work against during firing even if the operator doesn't have a firm grip. It's simple physics and it has to do with mass.

[JohnKSa]

Limpwristing is an Internet Myth perpetuated by some who have FTF's and cannot maintain their pistol properly.

Limpwristing is most certainly not a myth. I've see it happen in well-maintained pistols. One person shot it with the proper grip and had no malfunctions. Another person shot it with a poor/limp grip and couldn't get through a magazine without multiple malfunctions. The same person when taught the proper grip was able to shoot the gun without malfunctions.

That's all in a single shooting session with no maintenance performed on the gun.

PHYSICS: 101 Newton's Laws: There will be an opposite & equal reaction whether you are holding against something solid or not.

Yes, that is correct--the gun recoils whether it's held or not. HOWEVER, that's not the issue here.

The problem is that in order for the gun to cycle properly (extract/eject/feed) the slide has to move in recoil while the frame of the gun has to stay more or less stationary.

No one is suggesting that holding the gun is what generates recoil. As you note, recoil happens whether the gun is held or not. BUT if the frame does not remain somewhat stationary while the slide moves in recoil the gun will not cycle properly. If the whole gun recoils more or less as a unit it's easy to see that the slide will not cycle and the gun will not extract/eject/feed.

If the frame has a lot of inertia (is pretty heavy as most steel frames are) then the inertia of the frame may be sufficient to prevent limp-wristing. But if the frame has very little inertia (is very light as most polymer frames are) then something will have to help prevent it from moving in recoil so that the slide will move enough relative to the frame in order to cycle the firearm properly.

Also the problem will become more pronounced as the recoil spring becomes stiffer. A stiffer recoil spring couples the slide to the frame more tightly and makes it harder for the slide to move relative to the frame during recoil.

Kind of strange, this senior while in the service and in subsequent decades, while discussing firing with friends informally or on the range never heard of it...

Limpwristing was not much of an issue until autopistols with very lightweight frames became popular. If you could go back not so far in time to an era when "gun" meant "steel", and the word "polymer" was never mentioned in the same sentence with "firearm", you would also find that limpwristing was almost unheard of.

These days things are different.

If you want to understand how and why limpwristing works, try to rack the slide on your favorite autopistol without touching the frame or allowing anything else to touch the frame.

Without much experimentation you can determine that it is essentially impossible with a gun with a very light frame, especially if the recoil spring is very stiff. HOWEVER, if you could add a lot of weight (inertia) to the frame then the task would become much easier. Of course if you're allowed to use your other hand to keep the frame from moving then the task is very simple.

Obviously the recoil impulse is more abrupt than the force you can apply but the principle is the same.

[Myakka]

The glock is new to me. After shooting, i cleaned and properly oiled it but haven't been out to shoot it since. The person I got it from has been working with guns for 20 years so I assumed it was ready to go when he said it was. I'll probably get out to the range on Monday so I'll find ou if it was just dirty. Also, I've been told glocks will shoot in the mud - a bit of an exagration,I'm sure. Does this mean they aren't as resilliant as they are made out to be? In reply to the gansta grip comment; I shoot because I want to do it correctly and not because I saw it on tv or a video game. I use two hands and wrap the grip, all fingers below the slide and thumbs pointing forward with primary above the weak hand thumb. Of couse, if my thumbs weren't below the slide, I'd only do that once.

[greyson97]

does your grip look like this?


do you see how his left hand is forward and his fingers and palm are wrapped around his main hand.

[crghss]

My friend bought a Glock 30 (I think) it's a .45 compact model. He kept getting stovepipes. So we met at the range. Sure enough he can't get through a mag without a stovepipe. So I shoot it, no problem. Fires correctly every time. So another in the group tells us about "limpwristing". I'd never heard of this. But it must be true....what else would explain it?

He has since worked out his problem.

[Magyar]

My friend bought a Glock 30 (I think) it's a .45 compact model. He kept getting stovepipes. So we met at the range. Sure enough he can't get through a mag without a stovepipe. So I shoot it, no problem. Fires correctly every time. So another in the group tells us about "limpwristing". I'd never heard of this. But it must be true....what else would explain it?

If this is an indictment against Glocks, makes one wonder how precarious these pistols are between success & failure...I don't believe this would explain why some experience this phenomena with heavier guns...
I understand the physics & mass of the argument, but still feel in most cases you are dealing with other variables besides that when some pistols FTF...

[N.H. Yankee]

I have several pistols, a while back a friend who doesn't shoot much was over my house and we shot out back at my range. I brought out 3 pistols that I have put many rounds of factory and reloads through with no problems. He couldn't get through a clip on 2 of them without a stovepipe, I was baffled.

I put a clip through both both of them and perfect, he tried again and stovepipes. I then watched how he was holding the gun and corrected his showed him how to lock his wrist with his arm extended. he only had 1 stovepipe on the next clip and none after that firing several rounds.

I think that once a shooter learns the proper way and becomes seasoned its second nature and you actually find it hard to try to intentionally limpwrist a gun that another shooter can't seem to get through a clip without jam from limpwristing. I agree that the lighter the gun and especially a light gun with a very light slide mass will suffer this phenomenon more than a heavier gun especially with more slide mass. I have seen it happen to new shooters more with the mouse guns and polymer guns than anything else.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I understand the physics & mass of the argument, but still feel in most cases you are dealing with other variables besides that when some pistols FTF...

It's the very physics that you mentioned.... "equal and opposite forces".

Imagine a Glock firing in outer space with no support of any kind. It's entirely likely that that the gun would spin (very rapidly) but would not cycle at all. Why? There is nothing preventing the frame from moving with the slide. Remember, the slide has got to overcome the force of the recoil spring in order to properly cycle the gun. The slide is "pushing" backwards on the gun. In order for the slide to move relative to the frame something must be pushing forward on the frame to prevent it's rearward movement. Otherwise, the entire gun would, more or less, move as a single unit. The force of the recoil spring is greater than the inertia of the frame.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well... I managed an example of this today at the range.

Taurus Pt-101P .40 S&W

I was trying some new grips, which block the decocker from the left side but not the right. I was also "testing" informally the decocker mechanism, which requires a trigger pull. I detest this sort of decocking mechanism, having to pull the trigger to decock is just foolish.

Anyhow, I was holding the pistol rather loosely in both hands, not supporting the backstrap, and was able to, as I suspected, find a point where the decocking lever was depressed, but not fully, allowing the pistol to fire. The slide only came back partially, not fully removing the casing from the chamber.

So it is possible to "limp wrist", and I dislike trigger-pull decockers even more.

[MYSTERT85]

i have never had the problam with any pistol i have shot...my friend though had a stovepipe ever 5-7 rounds with his SR9 before he sold it...i never had a problam with the same pistol