The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 14, 2015, 03:06 AM   #26
drobs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2015
Location: South Central MO / Africa
Posts: 1,111
I gotcha.

You might consider a shoulder stock for a pistol over the carbine.

Pic borrowed from http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494632

With either I'd recommend keeping your off hand away from the front of the cylinder.
drobs is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 05:53 AM   #27
peggysue
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2014
Posts: 1,835
I will share a couple of my Kirst conversion pistols with you all. Fun to build and dremel the loading port. Yet not cheap but it is unregistered beings home built.

peggysue is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 06:39 AM   #28
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
Y...PN

Stands for: "Yep.....Pretty Nice"
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 07:14 AM   #29
drobs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2015
Location: South Central MO / Africa
Posts: 1,111
peggysue - not cheap was my experience as well. For the price of the BP revolver and Kirst Conversion - could've easily bought a new or used Ruger Blackhawk.


drobs is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 07:37 AM   #30
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
Or....

....A Smokewagon or Cattleman.
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 08:45 AM   #31
Pond, James Pond
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2011
Location: Top of the Baltic stack
Posts: 6,079
So how do those conversions work? Do they allow you to fire a CF cartridge out of a BP gun?

Isn't that risky with smokeless being so much more powerful? Or is it the cylinder that takes the brunt of the pressure?
__________________
When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic.
Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

Last edited by Pond, James Pond; September 14, 2015 at 03:03 PM.
Pond, James Pond is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 09:18 AM   #32
Captchee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 2, 2013
Posts: 439
Quote:
So how do those conversions work? Do they allow you to fire a CF cartridge out of a BP gun?
yes .
but depending on the gun it maynot be recommended to shoot common factory ammo.

Quote:
Isn't that risky with smokeless being so much more powerful? Or I'd it the cylinder that takes the brunt of the pressure?
yes and no .
Its not recommended that you use a brass framed revolver
Kirst warns not to use loads greater then 1000fps .. There is debate as to what that’s all about but there it is .
You don’t just go out and buy a can of smokeless and start cranking out shells.
it’s the cylinder that takes most of the pressure . that’s not to say the barrel isn’t also subject to pressure . As we discussed previously it’s an overall design consideration , not just the pressure .

Its best IMO if your going to shoot smokless, to either purchase so called cowboy rounds from a repratable source or do your research , collect recommended load data and learn to reload your own .
In my 36 cal 1851 Uberti I load 4.2 gr of American select and a 125 heel bullet . Works very nice , low recoil and still pushing 900fps .

If your on the cheep , its going to be cheeper to Buy one of the models that others have listed .
That also , depending on the maker, can mean you can use Factory loads
Captchee is offline  
Old September 14, 2015, 09:54 AM   #33
BlackPowderBen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2015
Posts: 380
Hickok45 and Mike Belvieu have videos on conversions, just google it
__________________
"If you have to shoot, shoot! Dont talk"
BlackPowderBen is offline  
Old September 15, 2015, 06:56 PM   #34
B.L.E.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
Quote:
Isn't that risky with smokeless being so much more powerful? Or is it the cylinder that takes the brunt of the pressure?
There's more to it than strength of the gun. If being strong enough for smokeless pressure was the only issue, then the Ruger Old Army, which is a modern gun converted to percussion revolver, would be happy with loads of Unique or Bullseye.
Smokeless powder must be ignited with a sealed primer. This the cartridge conversions provide.
You can't just set smokeless on fire with a spark, the primer explosion is responsible not only for igniting the powder, but also for establishing the initial high chamber pressure that smokeless needs to burn rapidly.

There is a company called Weslake Engineering that takes modern Taurus revolvers and converts them to smokeless cap and ball pistols so that the British can more easily own them. These use #209 shotgun primers instead of #11 percussion caps.
__________________
Hanlon's Razor
"Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."
B.L.E. is offline  
Old September 16, 2015, 04:51 AM   #35
Gator Weiss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Posts: 117
Revolving carbines were designed as a short range repeater to fire on human targets for the purpose of stopping them with a wound or a kill. It was never designed as a hunter piece and not for a long range piece. It is light and has a thin barrell. You COULD hunt small game such as rabbit and squirrel. A deer might be left wounded. Not much energy or accuracy or any means for developing distance accuracy. When you overload a cylinder in the Remington action you risk at the very least, warping the cylinder pin ton the point your cylinder is slightly angled, the cylinder pin now can't be withdrawn from the frame, the seating "hole" in the frame for the pin can be affected in that it takes a slight oval shape, the cylinder develops non-visible cracks or visible cracks thus becoming a serious hazard to fire again. Also in these actions, anything at all positioned beyond the cone becomes the cause of a barrell bulge. Never ever trust a revolver action of this sort to anything generating extreme pressures. It simply isn't designed for it and it can injure or kill and or destroy a very valuable piece.
Gator Weiss is offline  
Old September 17, 2015, 03:08 PM   #36
DD4lifeusmc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2012
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 351
simply put NO.
If all the machining is correct based on being a true 44

presume chambers are bored at .448
the bore is a true .440 (44 caliber)
the groove depth is .003 (common these days) remember the earlier model piettas used odd # of grooves, thus at any given spot no two grooves were in exact alignment
( close, but not exact.)
thus you would have a max internal diameter in the barrel of .443, but
the projectile except some very small areas would actually only be .440.
Thus the projectile now for all intents and purposes would be a slip fit in the chamber.
It would no longer have the tight friction fit needed to stay in-place until enough gas pressure had built up from the ignition and burning of the powder behind it, to dislodge it and propel it down the barrel.

I wouldn't worry about the extra powder because of this.
But even if it would work, still would worry about the 5 or 8 grains you might gain

Now if you meant seat the ball just above the forcing cone still in the barrel.
Then again no.
Majority of the 'force" from igniting, will just go out the cylinder end gap.
Also since you have not in anyway, "contained" the explosion of the ignition and powder burning, the pressures just aren't going to be there anyway.
Yes the pressure that is developed, might propel the ball out the barrel, But it won't have enough force behind it, to be useful for hunting or even target practice.
Mostly all you will get is a powder flash, just as if you lit a pile of powder on the table top.

Last edited by DD4lifeusmc; September 17, 2015 at 03:14 PM.
DD4lifeusmc is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06979 seconds with 10 queries