Just picked up a lightly used Ruger SFAR 308 16". What should I expect?

[veprdude]

Bought a Ruger SFAR 16" in 308 today. I've been looking at them since they came out. Price was a bit of turn-off. I recall PSA AR-10s pre pandemic for about $525 so the $1000+ tag was a bit steep.

I paid $800 out the door for one (2022 model) with maybe 20rds though it. It still has assembly oil visible on the takedown pins and barrel.

What am I looking at as far as reliability, groups, etc.?

[imashooter]

Bought a Ruger SFAR 16" in 308 today. I've been looking at them since they came out. Price was a bit of turn-off. I recall PSA AR-10s pre pandemic for about $525 so the $1000+ tag was a bit steep.

I paid $800 out the door for one (2022 model) with maybe 20rds though it. It still has assembly oil visible on the takedown pins and barrel.

What am I looking at as far as reliability, groups, etc.?

Hope the gun works well for you. Are those not questions asked pre-purchase? I understand if it were gifted, won, etc.

[44caliberkid]

“ Bought a Ruger SFAR 16" in 308 today. I've been looking at them since they came out. Price was a bit of turn-off. I recall PSA AR-10s pre pandemic for about $525 so the $1000+ tag was a bit steep.”

The SFAR can’t be compared to an AR/LR 308. The SF means small frame, other than the mag well, it is the same size as an AR-15. The SFAR carbine weighs less than 7 pounds while the lightest AR-10s are close to 10 pounds.
Numerous YouTube videos show it will deliver 1 to 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with ammunition that it likes, like Federal Gold Medal or manufacturers using Barnes bullets.
Those same videos also demonstrate a high degree of reliability. Most ran fine out of the box, even though Ruger recommends a 200 round break in period. The ones that were problematic were because the user started swapping in aftermarket parts right away. It is a new gun, under warranty, if it doesn’t work like it’s supposed to, send it back to Ruger and they will fix it.
The light weight appeals to me. I have two AR-10’s, two FAL’s and an M1A and I feel they are all too heavy. The other light weight AR 308 is the POF, which is more than double the Rugers price. I will be an SFAR owner someday.

[tangolima]

There are threads on the Ruger forum on its issues. It's a relatively new design. May need some iterations to get everything right.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Recycled bullet]

I want an sfar to shoot cast bullets out of.

[veprdude]

Originally Posted by Recycled bullet

I want an sfar to shoot cast bullets out of.

Why specifically cast bullets?

[Recycled bullet]

Because I make lots of bullets

[Recycled bullet]

I handled one in Cabela's and it was nice.

[MarkCO]

I've shot 3 of them. They are nice, and I like them. I'll probably end up getting one at some point.

I'd not be putting cast bullets through a gas gun. I know some do, but just too many issues for me.

[44 AMP]

Do be aware that by going with that short a barrel, you are losing a couple hundred fps from the .308's potential. And that there are some places that require an 18" barrel for deer hunting. Not many, its an outmoded reg, but it might still be on the books, so check your local laws.

Also be aware that Ruger's repair policy currently (as far as I know) is that they will repair their guns, and send them back in the same configuration they first went out the door. Meaning, if you have put aftermarket parts in/on, Ruger will remove them.

[MarkCO]

Do be aware that by going with that short a barrel, you are losing a couple hundred fps from the .308's potential.

With standard loads using the heavier bullets, I'll agree.

But in my .308 Gas guns with 125 to 155 grain loads (I usually shoot 140 Noslers over TAC) the difference was not that much. My standard 3Gun load was 2801 from the 16", 2832 from the 18" and 2854 from the 20". The spread differences in my bolt guns are a little larger, but not much. Same load in my integrally suppressed 24" (Witt with a Proof barrel) is dang quiet for a .308 and is 2925 fps. So that load, in 8" difference is only about 125 fps.

The light for caliber match bullets are what most guys are using in Heavy in 3Gun. They work really well in the gas guns, keep the bullet base to case neck junction in a good place with no mag length worries at all.

The only reason I bumped back to 18" is to reduce the concussion a little more.

[44 AMP]

My .308 "gas gun" is a rack grade M1A. Standard, 22" barrel, so that's my general frame of reference, along with my first deer rifle, a Rem 600 .308 with an 18.5" tube.

Since I'm well past my days as a soldier climbing in and out of APCs armed, and don't shoot matches or play "run & gun" games, I have no use for ultra short barrel .308s. 18.5" is a short as I need to go.

If its your thing, go for it. Just be aware of the limitations that go with the benefits.

[veprdude]

Thanks for the responses. I owe a range report. Looks like some (internet people) have had trouble with the gas system, especially M80 ball or 7.62 loadings.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by veprdude

Thanks for the responses. I owe a range report. Looks like some (internet people) have had trouble with the gas system, especially M80 ball or 7.62 loadings.

That is because they gassed it right for .308Win. Nato .308 is lower pressure than .308Win.

[veprdude]

And I understand that from reading other complaints. But could you imagine an AR-15 that was designed around .223 and choked on 5.56 62gr green tip? Are 308 vs 7.62 NATO pressures really that different?

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by veprdude

And I understand that from reading other complaints. But could you imagine an AR-15 that was designed around .223 and choked on 5.56 62gr green tip? Are 308 vs 7.62 NATO pressures really that different?

223Rem and 5.56 are not that far apart, but yes, .308Win and 7.62 do have a pretty decent gap. It's another one of those things that what you read on the internet may be right or wrong. Some say the 7.62 NATO is higher pressure than the commercial designation, and in every other cartridge, it is. No one cares in bolt guns because it is irrelevant.

Much of the old Mil-Surplus ammo I have shot has been pretty soft. Reversing out probable powder and pressure, likely only in the 45 to 50 Kpsi range, less for steel case stuff. Whereas .308 Win ammo is usually loaded pretty close to the top, or in the 58-62 Kpsi range for commercial loads.

Set a .308 pattern AR to run NATO ammo and you will likely be popping primers with standard .308Win loads.

[44 AMP]

The spec for USGI M80 ball is 50,000 psi. Velocity is 2750fps (+/- 30fps).

Compare that with commercial .308 Winchester and you'll find commercial ammo "all over the map", but generally a higher velocity (by 100fps +) and I expect a higher pressure.

I have no idea what foreign made NATO ammo is, I's sure you can look up the specs, somewhere.

point here is that semi auto rifles are rarely true "omnivores" and all require a diet within their acceptable range, and some are more picky than others.

Find out what YOUR rifle wants to eat, and feed it that. Don't feed it a diet it doesn't like, it won't be happy with that, and odds are, neither will you.

[davidsog]

7.62 NATO / 308 Win

They are the same cartridges and interchangeable. Call Ruger Customer service if you are worried about it. For that matter, call any ammo manufacturer and ask them.

https://ruger.com/products/sfar/models.html

My SFAR 16" shoots very well and has been 100% reliable. That being said, it is not stock. I replaced the handguards, dust cover, stock, mounted a JP Enterprises Flash Hider for now, and mounted a pinned Riflespeed gas block because I will run it suppressed. No issues whatsoever and it is a 1.2 MOA rifle with Igman M80 ball. More than accurate enough with cheap ammo for hunting or anything else you might need it.
Ruger has a new gas plug available if your rifle is one of the first ones produced. Again, contact Ruger customer service and they will help you out.

Enjoy your rifle!

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by davidsog

They are the same cartridges and interchangeable.

Absolutely false!

[veprdude]

So my next big question is which cartridge (308 vs 7.62x51) are other AR-10 platforms designed around? I would guess 7.62x51. These typically have fixed gas systems. With this setup is someone running, for example, an original DPMS with the only flexibility in buffer weights?

[davidsog]

Absolutely false!

Call any ammo manufacturer or gun manufacturer and they will tell you the two are interchangeable. .308 Winchester does come in more varieties than 7.62mm NATO because the military does not need so many varieties but that does not make it unsafe to shoot in a serviceable weapon.

Call Winchester, they engineered the round. 7.62mm is nothing more than the military version of the .308 Winchester specifications.

Internet experts have been generating myths about this for a long time. If you are buying your ammo off the shelf from a reputable ammunition manufacturer, .308 Winchester and 7.62mm NATO are interchangeable. If you have a serviceable rifle that is within its manufacturing specifications, it is safe to shoot either cartridge.

All modern .308 rifles can chamber and shoot modern .308 and 7.62 NATO ammunition without any problems, such as the SAINT Victor .308 rifles. The 7.62 NATO M1A can also safely fire both rounds.

If you plan on using a surplus rifle chambered in either .308 Win or 7.62 NATO, you should have the gun’s headspace checked by a professional to ensure you can safely shoot .308 ammunition. You can also check this on your own with quality Go-NoGo headspace gauges.

https://www.thearmorylife.com/7-62-n...-a-difference/

If you are a reloader then there are some differences due to the thicker military casings and the way military chambers are formed. I am sure that anyone being an experimental weapon engineer with their bubba handloads might be able to damage their gun and injure themselves but then they it does not matter what caliber or weapon they chose as the results of their experimentation will be the same.

It is safe to shoot 308 Winchester in your 7.62x51 rifles (even the Ishapores) and vice versa. Handloaders should be aware that they should reduce the amount of powder when using military 7.62 NATO cases by about 10-
12% and work up to safe pressures with corresponding velocities.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...3&d=1532181807

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by veprdude

So my next big question is which cartridge (308 vs 7.62x51) are other AR-10 platforms designed around? I would guess 7.62x51. These typically have fixed gas systems. With this setup is someone running, for example, an original DPMS with the only flexibility in buffer weights?

It depends. JP and Ruger used the .308Win. Aero and Stag used the 7.62. Folks who know will typically suggest adjustable gas for the 308 pattern ARs. However, if one builds, they can adjust the components to the gas port size and length for any specific load they want.

223 and 308 ARs can be adjusted to run subs, if one wants to, as well.

[davidsog]

Lee Precision says:



All cartridge specifications fall within a range of tolerances. Measuring the capacity of one brand vs another brand is about useless. Both will fall within the specifications of the cartridge.

[davidsog]

SAMMI specs:




My SFAR eats Federal .308 Winchester Gold Medal SMK 168 grain, Tula 150 grain .308 Winchester, and Igman 7.62mm NATO M80 Ball with equal gusto.

[rickyrick]

These ar interesting rifles.
Davidsog,
What is your optic? What accessories have been added?
This SFAR concept seems to be a better option than an AR10