Help chosing a used 870

brionic · May 7, 2000, 02:38 PM

Hi, I've decided to pick up an 870 for HD/utility. I prefer wood stocks to synthetic, so the best deal seems to be buying used.

However, as a relative dope when it comes to SGs, I'm wondering about what I should be looking for/against in a used weapon.

For example:

Factory parkerized? Is there any advantage to this finish? Is it really any more durable, will I have trouble matching aftermarket accesories? I'll want to install Ghost Rings at some point, for example.

Police trade in? I understand that 870s are close to indestructable, but should I stay away from a PD "target" weapon? Most that I've seen look rough but cycle smoothly...

Wingmaster + new bbl? Or should I stay away from the longer forearm? They sure look fancy, though.

2 3/4", 3", or Magnum? I'm probably not going to do any hunting, so is this relevant? Why does SGT "upgrade" receivers to 3"?

Etc. Ballpark prices are $200 for the beaters up to $350 for lookers.

Any advice aprreciated.

Regards,
--
Brian

[This message has been edited by brionic (edited May 07, 2000).]

Dave McC · May 8, 2000, 06:46 AM

The receiver on my bird 870 started its professional life at the Md Pen. After surplusing, it was "parkerized" and switched to 3". I built a shotgun around it, the bbl's matte,and it blends in nicely.

The 870 I use for deer started out as an Arlington Va, cruiser gun. Bbl was replaced and the whole thing's blue, not matte or phosphated.

The HD 870 was bought USED by my father around 1956. It must be one of the first ever made. Finish is blue,of course, and despite close to 50 years of use,including a good bit of waterfowling,is in fine shape.

Except for turkey hunting, finish really isn't all that crucial,IMO. Keep it oiled and it'll hold up well.

Don't turn down an otherwise good buy because it's chambered for 2 3/4" shells only. Lots of effective loads in that length,and ammo is abundant.

Police turnins work fine, expect for the rare case of abuse. GUNS R US here takes the trade ins, parts out the worst ones(how I got my receiver for the bird gun) and sells the better ones. If an 870 has ever worn out, I haven't heard of it.

Older 870s have a carrier that,if the shell isn't pushed far enough into the mag, will allow the shell to come back behind the carrier,jamming the gun and requiring either dissassembly or a rather rough clearing technique that does the gun no good.The Flexi-Tab carrier is now standard, shown by a slot in the carrier.If the 870 doesn't have the Flexi-Tab, it's easy to install one.

Remember that a stock 870 is a great HD weapon for a trained and qualified person, w/o bellsnwhistles. The first accessory you should buy is plenty of practice ammo,and sue it. Good luck,and I hope I addressed all your concerns...

taco · May 10, 2000, 12:36 AM

$200 for "beaters"?? I got a Remington 870 Express from local Walmart for $209 last year and you had choice of 28" barrel and wood stock or 18" barrel and black synthetic stock. I also have 2 Chinese 870 copy from Sport Authority for $129 (my brother and father also got one). It came with 28" barrel with 6 shot magazine and black synthetic stock. I had the barrel cut to 19" on one and added a side saddle ammo carrier, tactical sling and Surefire fore grip. This is my HD shotgun. Works great and internal parts are interchangable with my Remington.

Dave McC · May 11, 2000, 09:52 AM

Taco, maybe that ChiCom 870 clone is a good weapon, I don't know and never will.

I DO know that it was produced by slave labor by the worst/largest dictatorship left on the planet. By buying their products, you perpetuate the system.....

pete80 · May 11, 2000, 04:48 PM

Your best buy would be the Remington 870HD. This is a tough gun, sports an 18" barrel with black synthetic furniture. I purchased one for $279, very tough and reliable. It is also a great platform for building a tactical weapon. All sorts of add-on's like Sure-Fire lights and side-saddels can be had for this weapon.

taco · May 11, 2000, 10:18 PM

Dave McC, I respect your decision but I think sometimes we make these decisions based on our emotions instead of facts. Do you boycott all Chinese products or only Chinese firearms?

You are right about the China's "slave labor systems" and "largest dictatorship" in the world but I don't agree with you about "worst" left on the planet. In past 12 years I have traveled to over 20 different countries in 5 continents due to my work including China and IMHO China is not the worst in the world (I'm not saying China is so good). There are other countries such as Bangladesh where police and politicians are involved in selling little girls to foreign countries for prostitution and little boys who are virtual slaves working in factories, Guatemala where until recently native Indian men, women and children were tortured and killed by police and military just for living in an area where insurgents were active, Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/Iran where political prisoners and their families were tortured and killed on regular basis, etc. etc. From these countries we import textiles, oil, fruit/vegetables, sporting goods, clothes, etc. from companies owned by the government or companies owned by top elite who controls the government. These are countries just as bad as China or even worse. Do you think these countries’ situation or ours will improve if we stopped trading with them?

I think we are more concerned and aware of problems in China because we are more exposed to it through the news media. I don't believe we should be tying world trade together with political system, as there is no correlation between the two. Just because we trade with a country does not mean we will perpetuate that country's unacceptable political system. Just look at China during 60's when we didn't trade with them. During the past 30 years that we have traded with China, for the average Chinese, life has improved greatly both financially and politically (I admit they still have long ways to go). Today's China is very different/better than even 11 years ago when I first went there.

I don't mean to lecture you nor am I trying to change your mind as you are fully entitled to your point of view but I just want to express my point of view too.

Now on to something more interesting... do you have any recommendation on what ammo to carry in my Kimber Ultra Carry? Great little pistol but with the short 3" barrel I don't think any JHP bullet will expand.

Dave McC · May 12, 2000, 05:28 AM

Taco, I don't support other dictatorships and/or corruption if I can uncover it. And the improvement for the average Chinese is despite the govt ther, not because of it. However, we won WWIII by outlasting the Soviet setup,and the same result may happen in China.

That Kimber is in 45 ACP,correct? There's no bad 45 loads out there, the slug starts out over what most 9mms end up at,and they all score over 90% on the one shot stop database.
I suggest bolting that Kimber into a machine rest,and testing some ammo for group. If you come up with two of similiar group size, go with the cheapest,or less flash in low light,etc.
If a rest isn't available, shoot carefully from a supported position.

Finally, carry ammo must be 100% reliable in your weapon.Shoot at least 100 rounds,200's better, w/o any feed/ejection glitches before depending on it.

Al Thompson · May 12, 2000, 09:14 AM

Taco - DMQ is right about no bad loads for the .45. Well, the old 185 target loads were pretty weak..

The +P 185s and 200s will surprise you if you test them. I like 200s and up for bullet weight.

The most important thing is reliability. Way mucho better to have a gun that 100 % with FMJ than a gun loaded with the ultimate vega-matic bullet and low reliability..

Giz

MakAttack · May 13, 2000, 07:43 AM

brionic wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ballpark prices are $200 for the beaters up to $350 for lookers.[/quote]

That does seem high. I bought a used 870 Wingmaster from my dealer a couple of months ago for $150. The gun is in great mechanical shape; bluing is worn on the barrel & there is some light pitting on the receiver but as I want to use it as a base for a HD gun that didn't matter.

I was suprised to see what used barrels go for. The last show I went to had a limited selection; the short barrels with sights were going for $110!

Didn't see any smooth bore long barrels. Considering the gun cost me $150, $110 for a barell seemed steep.

My plan was to buy an orphaned barrel & cut it of to 18" or 19". If I can't find one reasonable, may have to just cut this one.

------------------
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"
Thomas Alva Edison

Dave McC · May 13, 2000, 09:35 AM

Gizmo, back in the 70s my carry load was a B&M 200 gr SWC over 6.5gr of Unique. This was a target load that didn't lead the bbl, but performed impressively dispatching wounded/injured deer, printed very nice groups, and expanded nicely even from a Alloy frame Commander I wish I'd never sold. While I never shot a human with that load,only the teachings of Ayoob and advancements in terminal ballistics changed my mind.

Mak, any police supply shop should have some old bead sight, plain bbls around. Last prices around here I noted were $65-75. While many folks like rifles sights and the much ballyhooed "Ghost Ring", much good work has been done with plain beads.

Suggestion, if discretionary income is tight.Buy a cheap,plain,short bbl. First, when money's available,get the forcing cone lengthened. Then,upgrade the sights, Last,add
all the extended mags,lights,fender skirts, and fuzzy dice. An unaltered 870 in trained and motivated hands is a short range weapon of awe inspiring potential.

brionic · May 13, 2000, 10:14 AM

Thanks to all who replied for the valuable advice you provided.

Dave McC, your sound words rang true. I've decided to forget (for now) about all the add-ons and concentrated instead on finding a weapon that is ready NOW for its mission. The rest is up to me; training and practice time has already been arranged and will continue.

Taco, you are correct, some of the "deals" on used Remingtons don't seem to be that great when compared to the price of a new Express. That stated, though, I wasn't able to find your $209 special at Wal-Mart. I'm not surprised, though; here in El Lay several famous chains no longer even carry firearms. Anyway, Hans Vang advised me that his price on Express sgns was over $275. So that's where I set my price limit. (Interesting side note: Vang Comp recomends starting with any "newer" Express, as they prefer the "better" bbls produced since the "Class Action Lawsuit". ?????)

MakAttack, I found the bbls to be quite expensive as well, that reason alone steered me away from longer bbl'd examples. One highly regarded shop nearby quoted $70 to cut down and crown a vent ribbed bbl. Seems like a fair price, and is cheaper than a new bbl, but I couldn't find a decent example that priced out within my range. Few hunters here, so there aren't as many examples from which to choose.

I ended up chosing an excellent condition 20" bead sighted Riot model, parkerized, seldom fired, with a nice birch stock. Haggled with the shop (cash always helps, eh?). Final price: $265. I'm satisfied, but have to wait ten days... The cashier literally cried, telling me that she had wanted it herself because it was so "pretty".

Now I'll drum my fingers on the desk, just waiting to clean the beast inside and out...

Again, thanks to all!

Regards,
--
Brian

[This message has been edited by brionic (edited May 13, 2000).]

bergie · May 14, 2000, 10:32 AM

Brionic,
Judging by the number of question marks, I am guessing that you know very little about the class action lawsuit mentioned to you by Vang. I am also guessing that a number of the younger members, or those newer to the wonderful world of shotguns know nothing about it. Maybe Dave, who seems to be our resident expert on 870's can fill in some of the details on it, but I will give what little info that I have.
If I remember correctly, it was started about 8 - 10 years ago by a bunch of shooters who had barrels either blow up, or bulge, and it was settled 5 ? years ago. Remington claimed that all of the incidents were caused by the shooters, by reloads, or plugged barrels. The shooters, in their original complaints to Rem were dealt with unsatisfactorily, gathered more info from other owners, found out that it was not just a few isolated incidents but, rather a great number of guns were affected, and filed the lawsuit. Advertisements were placed in some of the gun magazines by the group filing the lawsuit, listing a specific serial # range spanning several years of affected guns and the number of members of the "class" swelled. My brother missed the deadline to become a member of the "class", the barrel on his 870 purchased in about 76 had severely bulged, and he had already purchased a replacement. He was/is a very careful hunter/shooter, and had noticed absolutely no apparent malf. of ammo(factory only) and swears the barrel was not plugged, he was at the trap range when it happened.
I can't remember what the settlement consisted of. But I think that while admitting no fault Rem did offer some form of compensation. It only applied to people who had filed as members of the class, and had no effect on the many people and shotguns that knew nothing about it. So there are a great many Remington shotguns out there that may have barrels that could potentially be a problem. Even Rem admitted to change in barrel steel, company records provided the serial # range and dates of production to specify who could become members of the "class".
If there really was nothing to it, and Rem settled just to save legal fees, why would someone such as Vang specify a preference for the "better" barrels?
bergie

[This message has been edited by bergie (edited May 14, 2000).]

Dave McC · May 15, 2000, 01:42 AM

I know little about the lawsuit,during that time both my 870s and the agency ones kept going and going and going....

Urban legends about that include the idea that Remington tried to skimp on bbl steel,both quality and quantity and came up short,with a few splits and bulges.Some bulges MAY have occurred after using heavy loads of steel shot in older,full choke, bbls, or Rem Choke bbls using turkey and full tubes.

Another is that the Light Contour bbls intro'd a few years ago were the old bbls reconfigured and heat treated.

Again, during that period I fired or saw fired hundreds if not thousands of rounds through 870s of all vintages w/o a problem, nor did I hear of any agency problems through the grapevine..

May 7, 2000, 02:38 PM	#1
brionic Member Join Date: July 14, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 87	Hi, I've decided to pick up an 870 for HD/utility. I prefer wood stocks to synthetic, so the best deal seems to be buying used. However, as a relative dope when it comes to SGs, I'm wondering about what I should be looking for/against in a used weapon. For example: Factory parkerized? Is there any advantage to this finish? Is it really any more durable, will I have trouble matching aftermarket accesories? I'll want to install Ghost Rings at some point, for example. Police trade in? I understand that 870s are close to indestructable, but should I stay away from a PD "target" weapon? Most that I've seen look rough but cycle smoothly... Wingmaster + new bbl? Or should I stay away from the longer forearm? They sure look fancy, though. 2 3/4", 3", or Magnum? I'm probably not going to do any hunting, so is this relevant? Why does SGT "upgrade" receivers to 3"? Etc. Ballpark prices are $200 for the beaters up to $350 for lookers. Any advice aprreciated. Regards, -- Brian [This message has been edited by brionic (edited May 07, 2000).]

May 8, 2000, 06:46 AM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	The receiver on my bird 870 started its professional life at the Md Pen. After surplusing, it was "parkerized" and switched to 3". I built a shotgun around it, the bbl's matte,and it blends in nicely. The 870 I use for deer started out as an Arlington Va, cruiser gun. Bbl was replaced and the whole thing's blue, not matte or phosphated. The HD 870 was bought USED by my father around 1956. It must be one of the first ever made. Finish is blue,of course, and despite close to 50 years of use,including a good bit of waterfowling,is in fine shape. Except for turkey hunting, finish really isn't all that crucial,IMO. Keep it oiled and it'll hold up well. Don't turn down an otherwise good buy because it's chambered for 2 3/4" shells only. Lots of effective loads in that length,and ammo is abundant. Police turnins work fine, expect for the rare case of abuse. GUNS R US here takes the trade ins, parts out the worst ones(how I got my receiver for the bird gun) and sells the better ones. If an 870 has ever worn out, I haven't heard of it. Older 870s have a carrier that,if the shell isn't pushed far enough into the mag, will allow the shell to come back behind the carrier,jamming the gun and requiring either dissassembly or a rather rough clearing technique that does the gun no good.The Flexi-Tab carrier is now standard, shown by a slot in the carrier.If the 870 doesn't have the Flexi-Tab, it's easy to install one. Remember that a stock 870 is a great HD weapon for a trained and qualified person, w/o bellsnwhistles. The first accessory you should buy is plenty of practice ammo,and sue it. Good luck,and I hope I addressed all your concerns...

May 10, 2000, 12:36 AM	#3
taco Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: USA Posts: 936	$200 for "beaters"?? I got a Remington 870 Express from local Walmart for $209 last year and you had choice of 28" barrel and wood stock or 18" barrel and black synthetic stock. I also have 2 Chinese 870 copy from Sport Authority for $129 (my brother and father also got one). It came with 28" barrel with 6 shot magazine and black synthetic stock. I had the barrel cut to 19" on one and added a side saddle ammo carrier, tactical sling and Surefire fore grip. This is my HD shotgun. Works great and internal parts are interchangable with my Remington.

May 11, 2000, 09:52 AM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Taco, maybe that ChiCom 870 clone is a good weapon, I don't know and never will. I DO know that it was produced by slave labor by the worst/largest dictatorship left on the planet. By buying their products, you perpetuate the system.....

May 11, 2000, 04:48 PM	#5
pete80 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 1999 Posts: 454	Your best buy would be the Remington 870HD. This is a tough gun, sports an 18" barrel with black synthetic furniture. I purchased one for $279, very tough and reliable. It is also a great platform for building a tactical weapon. All sorts of add-on's like Sure-Fire lights and side-saddels can be had for this weapon.

May 11, 2000, 10:18 PM	#6
taco Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: USA Posts: 936	Dave McC, I respect your decision but I think sometimes we make these decisions based on our emotions instead of facts. Do you boycott all Chinese products or only Chinese firearms? You are right about the China's "slave labor systems" and "largest dictatorship" in the world but I don't agree with you about "worst" left on the planet. In past 12 years I have traveled to over 20 different countries in 5 continents due to my work including China and IMHO China is not the worst in the world (I'm not saying China is so good). There are other countries such as Bangladesh where police and politicians are involved in selling little girls to foreign countries for prostitution and little boys who are virtual slaves working in factories, Guatemala where until recently native Indian men, women and children were tortured and killed by police and military just for living in an area where insurgents were active, Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/Iran where political prisoners and their families were tortured and killed on regular basis, etc. etc. From these countries we import textiles, oil, fruit/vegetables, sporting goods, clothes, etc. from companies owned by the government or companies owned by top elite who controls the government. These are countries just as bad as China or even worse. Do you think these countries’ situation or ours will improve if we stopped trading with them? I think we are more concerned and aware of problems in China because we are more exposed to it through the news media. I don't believe we should be tying world trade together with political system, as there is no correlation between the two. Just because we trade with a country does not mean we will perpetuate that country's unacceptable political system. Just look at China during 60's when we didn't trade with them. During the past 30 years that we have traded with China, for the average Chinese, life has improved greatly both financially and politically (I admit they still have long ways to go). Today's China is very different/better than even 11 years ago when I first went there. I don't mean to lecture you nor am I trying to change your mind as you are fully entitled to your point of view but I just want to express my point of view too. Now on to something more interesting... do you have any recommendation on what ammo to carry in my Kimber Ultra Carry? Great little pistol but with the short 3" barrel I don't think any JHP bullet will expand.

May 12, 2000, 05:28 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Taco, I don't support other dictatorships and/or corruption if I can uncover it. And the improvement for the average Chinese is despite the govt ther, not because of it. However, we won WWIII by outlasting the Soviet setup,and the same result may happen in China. That Kimber is in 45 ACP,correct? There's no bad 45 loads out there, the slug starts out over what most 9mms end up at,and they all score over 90% on the one shot stop database. I suggest bolting that Kimber into a machine rest,and testing some ammo for group. If you come up with two of similiar group size, go with the cheapest,or less flash in low light,etc. If a rest isn't available, shoot carefully from a supported position. Finally, carry ammo must be 100% reliable in your weapon.Shoot at least 100 rounds,200's better, w/o any feed/ejection glitches before depending on it.

May 12, 2000, 09:14 AM	#8
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Taco - DMQ is right about no bad loads for the .45. Well, the old 185 target loads were pretty weak.. The +P 185s and 200s will surprise you if you test them. I like 200s and up for bullet weight. The most important thing is reliability. Way mucho better to have a gun that 100 % with FMJ than a gun loaded with the ultimate vega-matic bullet and low reliability.. Giz

May 13, 2000, 07:43 AM	#9
MakAttack Member Join Date: April 20, 2000 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 37	brionic wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ballpark prices are $200 for the beaters up to $350 for lookers.[/quote] That does seem high. I bought a used 870 Wingmaster from my dealer a couple of months ago for $150. The gun is in great mechanical shape; bluing is worn on the barrel & there is some light pitting on the receiver but as I want to use it as a base for a HD gun that didn't matter. I was suprised to see what used barrels go for. The last show I went to had a limited selection; the short barrels with sights were going for $110! Didn't see any smooth bore long barrels. Considering the gun cost me $150, $110 for a barell seemed steep. My plan was to buy an orphaned barrel & cut it of to 18" or 19". If I can't find one reasonable, may have to just cut this one. ------------------ "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" Thomas Alva Edison

May 13, 2000, 09:35 AM	#10
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Gizmo, back in the 70s my carry load was a B&M 200 gr SWC over 6.5gr of Unique. This was a target load that didn't lead the bbl, but performed impressively dispatching wounded/injured deer, printed very nice groups, and expanded nicely even from a Alloy frame Commander I wish I'd never sold. While I never shot a human with that load,only the teachings of Ayoob and advancements in terminal ballistics changed my mind. Mak, any police supply shop should have some old bead sight, plain bbls around. Last prices around here I noted were $65-75. While many folks like rifles sights and the much ballyhooed "Ghost Ring", much good work has been done with plain beads. Suggestion, if discretionary income is tight.Buy a cheap,plain,short bbl. First, when money's available,get the forcing cone lengthened. Then,upgrade the sights, Last,add all the extended mags,lights,fender skirts, and fuzzy dice. An unaltered 870 in trained and motivated hands is a short range weapon of awe inspiring potential.

May 13, 2000, 10:14 AM	#11
brionic Member Join Date: July 14, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 87	Thanks to all who replied for the valuable advice you provided. Dave McC, your sound words rang true. I've decided to forget (for now) about all the add-ons and concentrated instead on finding a weapon that is ready NOW for its mission. The rest is up to me; training and practice time has already been arranged and will continue. Taco, you are correct, some of the "deals" on used Remingtons don't seem to be that great when compared to the price of a new Express. That stated, though, I wasn't able to find your $209 special at Wal-Mart. I'm not surprised, though; here in El Lay several famous chains no longer even carry firearms. Anyway, Hans Vang advised me that his price on Express sgns was over $275. So that's where I set my price limit. (Interesting side note: Vang Comp recomends starting with any "newer" Express, as they prefer the "better" bbls produced since the "Class Action Lawsuit". ?????) MakAttack, I found the bbls to be quite expensive as well, that reason alone steered me away from longer bbl'd examples. One highly regarded shop nearby quoted $70 to cut down and crown a vent ribbed bbl. Seems like a fair price, and is cheaper than a new bbl, but I couldn't find a decent example that priced out within my range. Few hunters here, so there aren't as many examples from which to choose. I ended up chosing an excellent condition 20" bead sighted Riot model, parkerized, seldom fired, with a nice birch stock. Haggled with the shop (cash always helps, eh?). Final price: $265. I'm satisfied, but have to wait ten days... The cashier literally cried, telling me that she had wanted it herself because it was so "pretty". Now I'll drum my fingers on the desk, just waiting to clean the beast inside and out... Again, thanks to all! Regards, -- Brian [This message has been edited by brionic (edited May 13, 2000).]

May 14, 2000, 10:32 AM	#12
bergie Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 1999 Posts: 567	Brionic, Judging by the number of question marks, I am guessing that you know very little about the class action lawsuit mentioned to you by Vang. I am also guessing that a number of the younger members, or those newer to the wonderful world of shotguns know nothing about it. Maybe Dave, who seems to be our resident expert on 870's can fill in some of the details on it, but I will give what little info that I have. If I remember correctly, it was started about 8 - 10 years ago by a bunch of shooters who had barrels either blow up, or bulge, and it was settled 5 ? years ago. Remington claimed that all of the incidents were caused by the shooters, by reloads, or plugged barrels. The shooters, in their original complaints to Rem were dealt with unsatisfactorily, gathered more info from other owners, found out that it was not just a few isolated incidents but, rather a great number of guns were affected, and filed the lawsuit. Advertisements were placed in some of the gun magazines by the group filing the lawsuit, listing a specific serial # range spanning several years of affected guns and the number of members of the "class" swelled. My brother missed the deadline to become a member of the "class", the barrel on his 870 purchased in about 76 had severely bulged, and he had already purchased a replacement. He was/is a very careful hunter/shooter, and had noticed absolutely no apparent malf. of ammo(factory only) and swears the barrel was not plugged, he was at the trap range when it happened. I can't remember what the settlement consisted of. But I think that while admitting no fault Rem did offer some form of compensation. It only applied to people who had filed as members of the class, and had no effect on the many people and shotguns that knew nothing about it. So there are a great many Remington shotguns out there that may have barrels that could potentially be a problem. Even Rem admitted to change in barrel steel, company records provided the serial # range and dates of production to specify who could become members of the "class". If there really was nothing to it, and Rem settled just to save legal fees, why would someone such as Vang specify a preference for the "better" barrels? bergie [This message has been edited by bergie (edited May 14, 2000).]

May 15, 2000, 01:42 AM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I know little about the lawsuit,during that time both my 870s and the agency ones kept going and going and going.... Urban legends about that include the idea that Remington tried to skimp on bbl steel,both quality and quantity and came up short,with a few splits and bulges.Some bulges MAY have occurred after using heavy loads of steel shot in older,full choke, bbls, or Rem Choke bbls using turkey and full tubes. Another is that the Light Contour bbls intro'd a few years ago were the old bbls reconfigured and heat treated. Again, during that period I fired or saw fired hundreds if not thousands of rounds through 870s of all vintages w/o a problem, nor did I hear of any agency problems through the grapevine..