How the AR pistol is changing

peggysue · February 22, 2015, 05:51 AM

I built my first AR pistol in 2000. Last year I built another. I noticed on this link of AR pistol photos on AR15.Com from 2005 to present. Popularity, Colors and Accessories forever changing.
http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.htm...=245757&page=1

Pic of my latest creations and improvements...

**4V50 Gary** · February 22, 2015, 09:58 PM

and my classmate put it better: Barbie Dolls for men. I suppose the 22 LR is the only one you can have that doesn't need a buffer tube. One like that could be made into a modern Broomhandle.

giaquir · February 25, 2015, 09:05 PM

Can one actually use the sights on those pistols
to any degree of accuracy?

2ndsojourn · February 26, 2015, 10:09 AM

^^^ Sure. When you shoulder it! lol.

jimbob86 · February 26, 2015, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Can one actually use the sights on those pistols
to any degree of accuracy?

A full sized M-16a1 recoils so little that shouldering them is not really necessary* ...... it would help as far as accuracy/stability, true ..... but the gun won't fly back and whack you, either. I don't have any experience with the pistols, but I can't imagine them being a whole lot worse.

*to demonstrate this at the beginning of the BRM block of basic training at Ft. Sill back in the 1980's the DI's would have demonstrators rip off full auto mag dumps with the gun's stock on the guy's crotch, face, stomach, etc.

**44 AMP** · February 26, 2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Can one actually use the sights on those pistols
to any degree of accuracy?

If you are talking about the GI type peepsights, and holding the gun the way one normally holds a handgun (at arms length) the answer is effectively, NO.

First off, let me say that my opinions about the AR pistol (and any of the other "handguns" that are essentially a chopped rifle or SMG design) have NOTHING to do with our right to own what we want, like, or enjoy.

I've had, or had shooting experience with a number of these kinds of pistols (although I will admit, not the AR pistol specifically), and I've done my share of "one handing" the M16.

Cobray (Mac), Tec-9, Uzi, HK, Tommygun, AR, AK, and all the others in this general group of handguns are all less efficient for practical purposes than other designs. Where they excel is giving us the enjoyment of owning them, as the closest thing to their design ancestors as allowed under US law.

I was thinking of discussing the details here, but I think that question deserves its own thread.

skizzums · February 26, 2015, 12:05 PM

if you look at the last page of that thread. 169 I think. a couple pics down is a strange grip, ooks like a standard vert grip, just angled. apparently called a "Stark SE-5". s this still legal on a pistol(w/o AOW), as the magpul AFG is? they look pretty handy

http://shop.starkequipment.com/product.sc?productId=13

cc-hangfire · February 26, 2015, 12:21 PM

Question: I haven't handled or shot any AR pistols, but can you push the gun out against sling pressure for "normal rifle" sight alignment (rather than pulling a stock to your shoulder)? With the low recoil, it seems that would work - although it'd be more tiring for extended use since it's a different muscle set than normally used.

A few of the photos in the link have single point slings - would a two-point sling attachment allow an even more stable push and brace for sight alignment?

I ask cause I have a lower to build out and am considering a pistol build.

TMD · February 26, 2015, 02:24 PM

Quote:

if you look at the last page of that thread. 169 I think. a couple pics down is a strange grip, ooks like a standard vert grip, just angled. apparently called a "Stark SE-5". s this still legal on a pistol(w/o AOW), as the magpul AFG is? they look pretty handy

http://shop.starkequipment.com/product.sc?productId=13

Angles forward grips like this and the one from Magpul along with bipods are ok. Pistols grips are going to require a $200 tax stamp

Sharkbite · February 26, 2015, 02:31 PM

The BATFE has said the Magpul AFG (by NAME) is good to go. Any other brand is a grey area.

The letters that BATFE write are good only on the specific item in the letter.

Also the one pictured would allow a person to grasp the AFG by itself. Not the forend tube as a whole. That alone would put question about the purpose VS. The Magpul version.

ragwd · February 26, 2015, 03:00 PM

I have iron sights on my Ar15 pistol, but i dont use them. IMO they are not for accuracy. I put a green laser on the rail and works great fired from waist high. I have no real need for the ar pistol, I bought it because I could, hind sight I should have saved the money for something useful like a colt python.

skizzums · February 26, 2015, 04:41 PM

AFG magpul, by name, like he said are legal. that is why I was wondering about the one I showed, I have never seen it by name, on a pistol or anything. just because it is angled, I don't thin makes it legal w/o having the atf overlook it. I dunno, I was just curious because I like it

Skans · February 27, 2015, 09:04 AM

I have a Carbon-15. I can use the sights on my pistol for a good bit of accuracy.....if I am firing it slowly. It takes me a bit to get it back on target. I use the magwell as a forward pistol grip to shoot it two-handed.

However if I'm wacking the trigger as fast as i can, I'm spraying lead everywhere.

peggysue · February 28, 2015, 05:54 AM

Here is my first AR Pistol I made in 2000... RRA 2 state lower, Bushie upper, DPMS bolt, Smith Ent, break. and Gun Smoke gent 1 buffer. I runs like a sewing machine.

darkgael · February 28, 2015, 06:36 AM

I understand that an AR pistol is probably great fun to shoot. Aside from that....range toy.....I do not see them as very efficient for any purpose other than burning up ammo. (And there is nothing wrong with that)....

peggysue · March 1, 2015, 09:03 AM

All for the love of Gun Collecting,

darkgael.

psalm7 · March 1, 2015, 10:13 AM

I saw a ad from Rock River Arms showing a AR Pistol with piston system and no buffer tube . The return spring must be in the forarm . Nice but Im sure $$$ . Its called the PDS Pistol .

HiBC · March 1, 2015, 11:53 AM

Yes,psalm.RRA sent me a catalogue,its in there.

I believe it is also a unique lower,the whole pkg is necessary.

If you register as an NSA item,they also have a side swing folding stock.

alan · March 30, 2015, 09:53 PM

Re these "AR-15 pistols", I find myself curious re the following aspects.

1.What is the overall length of a typical example.
2.What is the overall height of a typical example.
3. What is the weight of a typical example.

Thanks.

Alan

**4V50 Gary** · April 1, 2015, 12:52 PM

alan - there is no standard but my teacher told me 10.5" barrel seems to be optimal for a pistol. I forgot what size gas port hole he recommended.

rep1954 · April 1, 2015, 06:38 PM

I'm short, stiff, and on the heavy side. For me the AR pistol is a pleasure to shoot. I shoot the pistols off hand as well as any rifle off hand. My cheek takes a weld on the buffer tube just fine and I am able to tuck both my arms into my body for support. The top gun has a carbine gas and sight system and shoots as accurate as most carbines I have shot. The bottom gun is what it is, out to 50 yards if the dot is there so is the bullet. To me both of these guns are 50 yards or less guns performance wise anyway. 11 1/2" and 7 1/2" barrels.

Venom1956 · April 2, 2015, 01:22 AM

clearly im missing something here... I dont see how the ar pistol has changed whatso ever over time retaliative to itself or fullsized ARs. same goes for the furniture or add-ons. same action same operation same controls same sights. we've made new plastic in different colors? Whoa.

peggysue · April 2, 2015, 06:29 AM

Venum why the anger? Look at link I put on my OP OF 2/27.

suncoastarmory · April 2, 2015, 07:14 AM

It may be silly. But I just have a hard time liking the look of the skinny buffer tube out back. I probably will build one anyway one of these days for the fun. Right now I dont even shoot my SBRs.

KyJim · April 2, 2015, 12:06 PM

The AR pistol must really juice up the anti-gun crowd -- a hi-cap handgun derived from and looking like an "assault" rifle. That's the only reason I can think of to own one.

February 22, 2015, 09:58 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	I call it the Lego of the gun world and my classmate put it better: Barbie Dolls for men. I suppose the 22 LR is the only one you can have that doesn't need a buffer tube. One like that could be made into a modern Broomhandle. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 26, 2015, 12:05 PM	#7
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	if you look at the last page of that thread. 169 I think. a couple pics down is a strange grip, ooks like a standard vert grip, just angled. apparently called a "Stark SE-5". s this still legal on a pistol(w/o AOW), as the magpul AFG is? they look pretty handy http://shop.starkequipment.com/product.sc?productId=13 __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 26, 2015, 12:21 PM	#8
cc-hangfire Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2014 Posts: 304	Question: I haven't handled or shot any AR pistols, but can you push the gun out against sling pressure for "normal rifle" sight alignment (rather than pulling a stock to your shoulder)? With the low recoil, it seems that would work - although it'd be more tiring for extended use since it's a different muscle set than normally used. A few of the photos in the link have single point slings - would a two-point sling attachment allow an even more stable push and brace for sight alignment? I ask cause I have a lower to build out and am considering a pistol build. Last edited by cc-hangfire; February 26, 2015 at 12:38 PM.

February 26, 2015, 04:41 PM	#12
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	AFG magpul, by name, like he said are legal. that is why I was wondering about the one I showed, I have never seen it by name, on a pistol or anything. just because it is angled, I don't thin makes it legal w/o having the atf overlook it. I dunno, I was just curious because I like it __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

February 28, 2015, 06:36 AM	#15
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Changing I understand that an AR pistol is probably great fun to shoot. Aside from that....range toy.....I do not see them as very efficient for any purpose other than burning up ammo. (And there is nothing wrong with that).... __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

February 25, 2015, 09:05 PM	#3
giaquir Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Deerfield,New Hampshire Posts: 512	Can one actually use the sights on those pistols to any degree of accuracy?

February 26, 2015, 10:09 AM	#4
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	^^^ Sure. When you shoulder it! lol.

February 26, 2015, 02:31 PM	#10
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	The BATFE has said the Magpul AFG (by NAME) is good to go. Any other brand is a grey area. The letters that BATFE write are good only on the specific item in the letter. Also the one pictured would allow a person to grasp the AFG by itself. Not the forend tube as a whole. That alone would put question about the purpose VS. The Magpul version.

February 26, 2015, 03:00 PM	#11
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	I have iron sights on my Ar15 pistol, but i dont use them. IMO they are not for accuracy. I put a green laser on the rail and works great fired from waist high. I have no real need for the ar pistol, I bought it because I could, hind sight I should have saved the money for something useful like a colt python.

February 27, 2015, 09:04 AM	#13
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I have a Carbon-15. I can use the sights on my pistol for a good bit of accuracy.....if I am firing it slowly. It takes me a bit to get it back on target. I use the magwell as a forward pistol grip to shoot it two-handed. However if I'm wacking the trigger as fast as i can, I'm spraying lead everywhere.

March 1, 2015, 09:03 AM	#16
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	All for the love of Gun Collecting, darkgael.

March 1, 2015, 10:13 AM	#17
psalm7 Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2014 Location: Middle TN Posts: 543	I saw a ad from Rock River Arms showing a AR Pistol with piston system and no buffer tube . The return spring must be in the forarm . Nice but Im sure $$$ . Its called the PDS Pistol .

March 1, 2015, 11:53 AM	#18
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	Yes,psalm.RRA sent me a catalogue,its in there. I believe it is also a unique lower,the whole pkg is necessary. If you register as an NSA item,they also have a side swing folding stock.

March 30, 2015, 09:53 PM	#19
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	Re these "AR-15 pistols", I find myself curious re the following aspects. 1.What is the overall length of a typical example. 2.What is the overall height of a typical example. 3. What is the weight of a typical example. Thanks. Alan

April 1, 2015, 12:52 PM	#20
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	alan - there is no standard but my teacher told me 10.5" barrel seems to be optimal for a pistol. I forgot what size gas port hole he recommended. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 1, 2015, 06:38 PM	#21
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	I'm short, stiff, and on the heavy side. For me the AR pistol is a pleasure to shoot. I shoot the pistols off hand as well as any rifle off hand. My cheek takes a weld on the buffer tube just fine and I am able to tuck both my arms into my body for support. The top gun has a carbine gas and sight system and shoots as accurate as most carbines I have shot. The bottom gun is what it is, out to 50 yards if the dot is there so is the bullet. To me both of these guns are 50 yards or less guns performance wise anyway. 11 1/2" and 7 1/2" barrels.

April 2, 2015, 01:22 AM	#22
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	clearly im missing something here... I dont see how the ar pistol has changed whatso ever over time retaliative to itself or fullsized ARs. same goes for the furniture or add-ons. same action same operation same controls same sights. we've made new plastic in different colors? Whoa. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

April 2, 2015, 06:29 AM	#23
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	Venum why the anger? Look at link I put on my OP OF 2/27.

April 2, 2015, 07:14 AM	#24
suncoastarmory Member Join Date: December 21, 2013 Posts: 37	It may be silly. But I just have a hard time liking the look of the skinny buffer tube out back. I probably will build one anyway one of these days for the fun. Right now I dont even shoot my SBRs.

April 2, 2015, 12:06 PM	#25
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	The AR pistol must really juice up the anti-gun crowd -- a hi-cap handgun derived from and looking like an "assault" rifle. That's the only reason I can think of to own one.