.45-70 Rolling Block Loads?

Ed Dixon · September 6, 2002, 12:37 AM

Anybody? Anybody? ...

Gewehr98 · September 6, 2002, 10:07 AM

I'm assuming you want cast or swaged lead bullets.

Give us some help here with your intent, hunting, target, etc?

Jim Watson · September 6, 2002, 11:40 AM

If it is an original, use handbook loads as for Trapdoor. The rolling block is stronger, but when one blows due to an excessive load or bad brass, the damage is greater. A repro with modern steel, little wear, and good brass will take heavier loads; I think Ken Waters puts them in with original Winchester '86s.

EchoFiveMike · September 6, 2002, 12:31 PM

I seem to remember that the original GI smokeless load for the 45-70(load was M1898?) was 38.0gns of 3031 behind a 500gn cast lead bullet. The early barrels had really deep rifling in order to digest many loads of black powder without cleaning and so you need to use a dead soft alloy(20:1 or softer, and NO antimony) Do a little more research on this yourself , obviously, but if you like I'll check my notes, let me know. S/F...Ken M

Jim Watson · September 6, 2002, 05:56 PM

I doubt me the 1898 smokeless .45-70 was loaded with 3031. My book says it did not come out til 1934. It may have been made on a bulk basis for factory loading before that - it was what got the .257 Roberts going - but not 36 years, the technology was not there. The only suitable looking pre-'98 American smokeless I could find mention of was duPont No 1 Rifle Smokeless, made 1894 to 1927. Maybe they used that.

I don't have a .45-70 but load .38-55 with XMR 5744 and SR 4759. But I'm going to try plain old 2400 next.

Ed Dixon · September 6, 2002, 06:36 PM

Yes, I'm primarily interested in lead bullets. Target and hunting. Let me be clear that this is a Pedersoli repro of the Remington ("Creedmore-style"). I've got some books (inlcluding "Pet Loads"). I was looking for what others may have tried and liked. I'd be interested in even brand of bullet as well. Don't cast my own. Thanks for the input so far. Man, I'll have to get some of those 500 gr. monsters. Have shot only 405s so far and have some 300s I've yet to load.

TBAUS · September 6, 2002, 11:23 PM

I load 45/70 at levels that are safe in a trap door springfield since I shoot original trapdoors, replicas and rolling blocks. The following is taken directly from "Loading cartridges for the Original .45/70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J.S. and Pat Wolf.
RP or WW case without filler wads, using Federal 215 or WLRM Magnum primers, 500 gr cast bullet cast 20-1 or 16-1 and sized to .459. Seat depth .56 for over-all length of 2.80 to 2.82. Works best on precompressed powder but if bullet is of sufficient hardness powder can be compressed by the bullet. Use a firm taper crimp.

Load #1 70.0 FFg ( 2F Black powder) 19,770 cup to 21,600 cup
Load #2 25.0 gr SR 4759 21,700 cup to 22,900 cup
Load #3 7.0 SR 4759 placed in case first, followed by 52.0 FFg ( 2F Black powder) 15,000 cup to 15,400 cup

The book calls for the primer flash hole to be drilled to .096". My shooting partner did this, I did not. So far I can't tell the difference.

405 gr lead bullet
25.0 gr SR 4759

IMR 4759 is a bulky powder that is particularly suitable to the 45/70 cartridge. The book has more loads. I have yet to try them all. Do not lower the duplex loads as powder will migrate if you do. Be safe. Have fun!

September 6, 2002, 06:36 PM	#6
Ed Dixon Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2000 Location: Ireland Posts: 308	Yes, I'm primarily interested in lead bullets. Target and hunting. Let me be clear that this is a Pedersoli repro of the Remington ("Creedmore-style"). I've got some books (inlcluding "Pet Loads"). I was looking for what others may have tried and liked. I'd be interested in even brand of bullet as well. Don't cast my own. Thanks for the input so far. Man, I'll have to get some of those 500 gr. monsters. Have shot only 405s so far and have some 300s I've yet to load. __________________ I hate quotes. Tell me what you know. - Emerson

September 6, 2002, 12:37 AM	#1
Ed Dixon Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2000 Location: Ireland Posts: 308	.45-70 Rolling Block Loads? Anybody? Anybody? ... __________________ I hate quotes. Tell me what you know. - Emerson

September 6, 2002, 10:07 AM	#2
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Are you thinking blackpowder or smokeless? I'm assuming you want cast or swaged lead bullets. Give us some help here with your intent, hunting, target, etc? __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

September 6, 2002, 11:40 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	If it is an original, use handbook loads as for Trapdoor. The rolling block is stronger, but when one blows due to an excessive load or bad brass, the damage is greater. A repro with modern steel, little wear, and good brass will take heavier loads; I think Ken Waters puts them in with original Winchester '86s.

September 6, 2002, 12:31 PM	#4
EchoFiveMike Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 416	I seem to remember that the original GI smokeless load for the 45-70(load was M1898?) was 38.0gns of 3031 behind a 500gn cast lead bullet. The early barrels had really deep rifling in order to digest many loads of black powder without cleaning and so you need to use a dead soft alloy(20:1 or softer, and NO antimony) Do a little more research on this yourself , obviously, but if you like I'll check my notes, let me know. S/F...Ken M

September 6, 2002, 05:56 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I doubt me the 1898 smokeless .45-70 was loaded with 3031. My book says it did not come out til 1934. It may have been made on a bulk basis for factory loading before that - it was what got the .257 Roberts going - but not 36 years, the technology was not there. The only suitable looking pre-'98 American smokeless I could find mention of was duPont No 1 Rifle Smokeless, made 1894 to 1927. Maybe they used that. I don't have a .45-70 but load .38-55 with XMR 5744 and SR 4759. But I'm going to try plain old 2400 next.

September 6, 2002, 11:23 PM	#7
TBAUS Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2002 Location: Central Texas Posts: 111	I load 45/70 at levels that are safe in a trap door springfield since I shoot original trapdoors, replicas and rolling blocks. The following is taken directly from "Loading cartridges for the Original .45/70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by J.S. and Pat Wolf. RP or WW case without filler wads, using Federal 215 or WLRM Magnum primers, 500 gr cast bullet cast 20-1 or 16-1 and sized to .459. Seat depth .56 for over-all length of 2.80 to 2.82. Works best on precompressed powder but if bullet is of sufficient hardness powder can be compressed by the bullet. Use a firm taper crimp. Load #1 70.0 FFg ( 2F Black powder) 19,770 cup to 21,600 cup Load #2 25.0 gr SR 4759 21,700 cup to 22,900 cup Load #3 7.0 SR 4759 placed in case first, followed by 52.0 FFg ( 2F Black powder) 15,000 cup to 15,400 cup The book calls for the primer flash hole to be drilled to .096". My shooting partner did this, I did not. So far I can't tell the difference. 405 gr lead bullet 25.0 gr SR 4759 IMR 4759 is a bulky powder that is particularly suitable to the 45/70 cartridge. The book has more loads. I have yet to try them all. Do not lower the duplex loads as powder will migrate if you do. Be safe. Have fun!