45acp +P and hotter...

J.T.King · June 30, 2000, 01:39 PM

I have been reloading for a bit now with the following 45acp load:

Remmington 230gr FMJ
Remmington +p nickel brass
CCI 300 LP Primers
5.4gr Alliant Bullseye

Unfortunately we dont have good balistic data on these as the chrony has been on the blink. But the accuracy is much better than factory plinking and out of 1000 rounds I have never had a failure to feed, fire or eject.

Now I am wanting to start upping the ante. I just ordered a bunch of new brass, and some Alliant Power Pistol powder. What I want to know is how hot can I go with the remmington +p nickel brass?

Also... does anyone have any loads they have tried in over +P preasures for 230gr?

Another question... from what I have read, normal 45acp preasure runs form 16,000-19,000psi, +P is from 21,000-22,000psi and 45Super is closer to 26,000psi..

I know that 45 super needs differnt brass, but what about a "+P+" style of round? Will the remmington brass take something closer to 23,000psi? (not that I know how to measure this other than watching for bulging cases and flattened primers)

Finally, since I fire nothing but fairly hot 230gr bullets, should I upgrade to the 16lb recoil spring? The stock spring is 13lbs.

Thanks for the input!

J.T.

RickB · June 30, 2000, 06:27 PM

Is it a comp gun? Which .45 has a 13# spring? "Stock" in a 1911 is at least 16, and 17 or 18 might be considered "stock" as well. If you're going to shoot only hot rounds, then consider changing the hammer spring and firing pin stop. A 25# hammer spring and EGW square-edged FP stop will delay unlocking without screwing up the feed cycle unnecessarily. I've been using an EGW stop for a couple of years in my .45, and it's part of the Ace Custom .45 Super conversion. Good move, going to a slower powder - some .45's apparently have trouble getting to hardball velocity levels, at safe pressures, with Bullseye.

J.T.King · June 30, 2000, 06:48 PM

My appologies.. I forgot to mention the pistol:

I am firing these out of a 1999 polygonal barreled USP45 full size with a match trigger in it.

Wolff only sells 14 and 16lb springs for the USP45f. I would guess that the main-spring is in the neighborhood of 10-12 pounds as that is the light weight spring that Wolff sells as well.

Anyone know different?

I have been told that he second recoil spring is around 20lbs and shouldnt be replaced.

Thanks for any input...

J.T

Dr_Johnson · June 30, 2000, 08:46 PM

King,

Another powder I would try is AA #5 with 230 grain JHPs.
With 8.7 grains it has a listed speed of 927FPS in non +p. I have worked up a 9.2 grain load that is great, one ragged hole at 7 yards. The brass showed no pressure signs, but don't take my word for it, work up slowly into the +P range.

In my H&K 45F I have found that AA #5 is the only powder that is really accurate for hotter loads.

Ruben Nasser · June 30, 2000, 10:53 PM

Hi J.T., go to www.realguns.com to get an excellent series of articles on the 45 Super and reloads. It's about turning a normal 1911 into a 45 Super, but you'll get the idea. I think you won't have a problem with a 16 pound recoil spring and loading to "+P+" levels, I would not worry about a stronger firing pin spring or anything else (just keep a look on the marks on unfired primers).

Henry Bowman · July 1, 2000, 09:57 PM

If your interested I've done some very successful testing with AA-7 in mixed .45acp brass in a "fully supported chamber" using published .45 Super data. 200gn H&[email protected] much prefer the old FBI Super-Vel loading of 230s@1000fps henry

J.T.King · July 1, 2000, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the responses guys....

As far as powders go, This next time through I will be using Bullseye and Power Pistol by Alliant since they are already purchased.

now correct me if I am wrong... But isnt the USP45 barel a "fully supported" chamber?

If so, great; its what I thought.

I am not interested in loading 45super brass. I *do* want to play with high performance loads in 45 +P nickel brass. I would like the brass to be reloadable to normal preasures after I shoot it once at high preasure.

I am interested in load data from those people who have "gone to the extreme" with +P brass. I know to not start at those loads and work my way up. but I want to know what OTHERS have done in 45 +P brass for higher performance loads.

Dr johnson: thanks forthe info, if I ever try that powder I will give that a shot.

Henry Bowman: I am interested in what you have done. my direct e-mail is [email protected]

thanks again, and any other feedback is welcome.

J.T.

Clark · July 5, 2000, 09:58 PM

1) 45 acp 185 gr 1100 fps 10.2 gr AA#5 18,000 psi
2) 45 acp +P 1200 fps 10.8 gr AA#5 21,700 psi
3) 45 Super 1312 fps 12.4 gr AA#5 28,000 cup
4) 460 Rowland 1500 fps 14.5 gr AA#5 38,800 cup

I have worked up all the way through this. I found a gun with good cases support and had good consistant brass. I did develop a flich and a shake though. I made a 42 pound triple recoil spring on a homemade guide rod and got rid of the flinch. I also had to double up on the magazine spring or the chamber would be empty after each shot. The extra spring meant there was room for one fewer rounds in the mag.

WESHOOT2 · July 6, 2000, 07:17 PM

Contact me directly for +P using Power Pistol.

[email protected]

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

June 30, 2000, 01:39 PM	#1
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	I have been reloading for a bit now with the following 45acp load: Remmington 230gr FMJ Remmington +p nickel brass CCI 300 LP Primers 5.4gr Alliant Bullseye Unfortunately we dont have good balistic data on these as the chrony has been on the blink. But the accuracy is much better than factory plinking and out of 1000 rounds I have never had a failure to feed, fire or eject. Now I am wanting to start upping the ante. I just ordered a bunch of new brass, and some Alliant Power Pistol powder. What I want to know is how hot can I go with the remmington +p nickel brass? Also... does anyone have any loads they have tried in over +P preasures for 230gr? Another question... from what I have read, normal 45acp preasure runs form 16,000-19,000psi, +P is from 21,000-22,000psi and 45Super is closer to 26,000psi.. I know that 45 super needs differnt brass, but what about a "+P+" style of round? Will the remmington brass take something closer to 23,000psi? (not that I know how to measure this other than watching for bulging cases and flattened primers) Finally, since I fire nothing but fairly hot 230gr bullets, should I upgrade to the 16lb recoil spring? The stock spring is 13lbs. Thanks for the input! J.T.

June 30, 2000, 06:27 PM	#2
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Is it a comp gun? Which .45 has a 13# spring? "Stock" in a 1911 is at least 16, and 17 or 18 might be considered "stock" as well. If you're going to shoot only hot rounds, then consider changing the hammer spring and firing pin stop. A 25# hammer spring and EGW square-edged FP stop will delay unlocking without screwing up the feed cycle unnecessarily. I've been using an EGW stop for a couple of years in my .45, and it's part of the Ace Custom .45 Super conversion. Good move, going to a slower powder - some .45's apparently have trouble getting to hardball velocity levels, at safe pressures, with Bullseye.

June 30, 2000, 06:48 PM	#3
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	My appologies.. I forgot to mention the pistol: I am firing these out of a 1999 polygonal barreled USP45 full size with a match trigger in it. Wolff only sells 14 and 16lb springs for the USP45f. I would guess that the main-spring is in the neighborhood of 10-12 pounds as that is the light weight spring that Wolff sells as well. Anyone know different? I have been told that he second recoil spring is around 20lbs and shouldnt be replaced. Thanks for any input... J.T

June 30, 2000, 08:46 PM	#4
Dr_Johnson Member Join Date: March 14, 2000 Posts: 34	King, Another powder I would try is AA #5 with 230 grain JHPs. With 8.7 grains it has a listed speed of 927FPS in non +p. I have worked up a 9.2 grain load that is great, one ragged hole at 7 yards. The brass showed no pressure signs, but don't take my word for it, work up slowly into the +P range. In my H&K 45F I have found that AA #5 is the only powder that is really accurate for hotter loads.

June 30, 2000, 10:53 PM	#5
Ruben Nasser Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2000 Location: Asuncion, Paraguay Posts: 280	Hi J.T., go to www.realguns.com to get an excellent series of articles on the 45 Super and reloads. It's about turning a normal 1911 into a 45 Super, but you'll get the idea. I think you won't have a problem with a 16 pound recoil spring and loading to "+P+" levels, I would not worry about a stronger firing pin spring or anything else (just keep a look on the marks on unfired primers).

July 1, 2000, 09:57 PM	#6
Henry Bowman Junior member Join Date: April 27, 2000 Location: AK Posts: 139	If your interested I've done some very successful testing with AA-7 in mixed .45acp brass in a "fully supported chamber" using published .45 Super data. 200gn H&[email protected] much prefer the old FBI Super-Vel loading of 230s@1000fps henry

July 1, 2000, 11:54 PM	#7
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	Thanks for the responses guys.... As far as powders go, This next time through I will be using Bullseye and Power Pistol by Alliant since they are already purchased. now correct me if I am wrong... But isnt the USP45 barel a "fully supported" chamber? If so, great; its what I thought. I am not interested in loading 45super brass. I do want to play with high performance loads in 45 +P nickel brass. I would like the brass to be reloadable to normal preasures after I shoot it once at high preasure. I am interested in load data from those people who have "gone to the extreme" with +P brass. I know to not start at those loads and work my way up. but I want to know what OTHERS have done in 45 +P brass for higher performance loads. Dr johnson: thanks forthe info, if I ever try that powder I will give that a shot. Henry Bowman: I am interested in what you have done. my direct e-mail is [email protected] thanks again, and any other feedback is welcome. J.T.

July 5, 2000, 09:58 PM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	1) 45 acp 185 gr 1100 fps 10.2 gr AA#5 18,000 psi 2) 45 acp +P 1200 fps 10.8 gr AA#5 21,700 psi 3) 45 Super 1312 fps 12.4 gr AA#5 28,000 cup 4) 460 Rowland 1500 fps 14.5 gr AA#5 38,800 cup I have worked up all the way through this. I found a gun with good cases support and had good consistant brass. I did develop a flich and a shake though. I made a 42 pound triple recoil spring on a homemade guide rod and got rid of the flinch. I also had to double up on the magazine spring or the chamber would be empty after each shot. The extra spring meant there was room for one fewer rounds in the mag.

July 6, 2000, 07:17 PM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Contact me directly for +P using Power Pistol. [email protected] ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"