7.62x54 bullets?

rude robert · January 30, 2011, 08:15 PM

Hi, i met a guy at the Orange county gun show yesterday. He was saying that the bullets in .311 or .308 are shorter then the actual Russian bullets? He said that he couldn't find any bullets that are the proper lenght? I was about to buy the dies for it, then remembered that i read some where that besides the dies something else was needed to reload them. I am sure some one here knows something about this thx Robert

schnarrgj · January 30, 2011, 09:08 PM

I have been reloading the 7.62x54r for a number of years. The length of the bullet is as far as I am concerned a non-issue. Just long enough to be seated in the case for enough tension to adequately hold the bullet and fit the magazine. Think of the 30-06. It has many different bullet lengths and weights. All will work. If you are going for bench rest accuracy, the bullet length will make a difference because you want to load it to very close to the lands.

For my Mosin Nagants, I use either a .311 or .312 depending on which rifle that is going to shoot it. For all but two, I have had great results with the Rem 180 gr rn in .311. It has a longer bearing surface than most of the others and for me more accurate.

As for as what else is needed but the dies, the proper shell holder. I don't have anything else. Now if you want to try .308 bullets, you will need a different expander ball for the sizing die. For me, .308 bullets have given me very poor results.

Now for length of the actual bullets here are a few.

Hungarian HB 1.313 in. 183gr .311
Hungarian LB 1.121 in. 148gr .3115
Albanian 1.281 in. 151gr .311

Hornady 1.068 in. 150gr spire point .312
Hornady 1.11 in. 174gr RN .312
Remington 1.062in. 180gr RN .311

LloydXmas250 · January 31, 2011, 12:11 AM

Do you know what caliber you need? I've read Mosins can be anywhere from .306 to .312. Have you checked your diameter? As said already, any length will do as long as you're within the maximum and minimum overall lengths.

chris in va · January 31, 2011, 12:19 AM

On a side note, how do you plan to reload 7.62x54R? Unless you buy hens-teeth-rare Boxer primed brass, you won't be able to reload them.

LloydXmas250 · January 31, 2011, 01:07 AM

That's a good comment. It's hard to reload 7.62X54R cheaper than buying it in bulk. But he may need the extra accuracy or better quality bullets for hunting. If he's ok with taking a loss on it for the brass then kudos. Where I'm at in CA there's a huge lead free zone. I wanted to hunt with my Mosin for the challenge but the my reloading shop charges $80 for 20 rounds of their own lead free 7.62X54R. So I look at it a few different ways.

schnarrgj · January 31, 2011, 08:43 AM

You can very often find brass here http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/771. Also if you get some Privi Partizan, wolf gold or Winchester ammo, that brass is reloadable boxer primed. I do use my Mosins for hunting. If you have more then one, segregate the brass to each rifle in that the chambers will vary by a lot. I neck size to help with the life of teh brass. The barrels on my 10 Mosins bore vary from .3105 to .313. The .313 is a M91 built in 1897. The Finnish have the tighter barrels in the .308 range.

GP100man · January 31, 2011, 09:25 AM

I cast for mine & have a .314 mold it does good in 1 rifle ,the other not so good, according to the fired brass it`ll will swallow a .316 bullet

But I`m not going to get a 8mm mold & sizer for 1 rifle, maybe the Lee stuff later

FrankenMauser · January 31, 2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

I cast for mine & have a .314 mold it does good in 1 rifle ,the other not so good, according to the fired brass it`ll will swallow a .316 bullet

Using throat and chamber dimensions is not a safe way to determine bore size.

rude robert · February 1, 2011, 09:37 AM

Thx for the information, i swabbed/swagged the barrel and it wass .311. If you buy non military rounds like from winchester then you get your brass. ?? why would you need a expander for a .308 bullet? what diameter comes with the dies for 7.62x54?

wpcexpert · February 1, 2011, 10:07 AM

Do they generally have a .311-.312 dia bore also? I'd hate to run a lead sinker all the way down the bore with a wooden dowel to find out. I've got a set of calipers, but would I get an accurate reading with the calipers?

Edited: I did some more looking and it looks like they are .311 aslo.

schnarrgj · February 1, 2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

why would you need a expander for a .308 bullet? what diameter comes with the dies for 7.62x54?

I have not measured the expander plug but the .311 and .312 seat with plenty of tension. If you had a Finnish, which have smaller bores, you might want to use .308 bullets therefor the need for a .308 expander plug. And yes the non Swede rifles are generally .311-.312 bores. Use a .311 or .312 bullet start low and work up slowly watching for pressure signs.

Clark · February 2, 2011, 01:25 AM

I get the best groups with Sierra 180 gr 2310 bullet.

But like customs profilers, after a while they only catch people who fit the profile.

So after 10 years, all my good groups from all my Nagant like rifles are all with that bullet, because I use that the most.

Here is the last target I shot on 8-28-2009:

Well, I guess I don't shoot them that often.

azar92 · February 7, 2011, 03:29 PM

Clark,

That's quite a group for a Nagant! What was the range?

Rangefinder · February 7, 2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

It's hard to reload 7.62X54R cheaper than buying it in bulk. But he may need the extra accuracy or better quality bullets for hunting.

Not if you're casting. I shoot mine for about .08 per shot---cost of a primer and a little powder.

Quote:

I cast for mine & have a .314 mold it does good in 1 rifle ,the other not so good, according to the fired brass it`ll will swallow a .316 bullet

Quote:

Using throat and chamber dimensions is not a safe way to determine bore size.

While true, I'm pretty sure GP knows how to slug his barrel--and has. I think his meaning is that the throat is loose enough to accept the .316 boolit size, where-as one with a rather tight chamber like mine would probably be difficult and likely even swage the neck and bullet down if I tried to chamber one sized all the way up at .316 rather than the .311 I use.

Qtiphky · February 8, 2011, 07:26 AM

If 7.62x54R and 7.62 NATO are the same diameter caliber, (.308) why would you need to buy a different expander ball to size the casing to .308? Some of the postings are saying that they load larger sized bullets, (.311 up to .316), which would seem to me to need bigger sizing (larger expander) of the brass than a .308 bullet would. What size expander do the dies come with? I assumed that they would come with a .308 size expander. I don't own a Nagant yet, but I like to learn about everything so in case that day comes I will be well versed on what I will need.

Bush Pirate · February 8, 2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Thx for the information, i swabbed/swagged the barrel and it wass .311. If you buy non military rounds like from winchester then you get your brass. ?? why would you need a expander for a .308 bullet? what diameter comes with the dies for 7.62x54?

The Lee dies come with .308 expander. You can get a .311 by ordering one for 303 brit and swap them out.

GP100man · February 8, 2011, 09:33 AM

The bore on the one I was refering to is .314 & oblong at the muzzle , the shooter was of all things left handed !!

Now the one that shoots better has a dead -on .312 bore , alittle ruff but .312 & it gets .313 bullets !

My mold the Lyman 314299 throws a .314 bullet & 305 nose !

FrankenMauser · February 8, 2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

While true, I'm pretty sure GP knows how to slug his barrel--and has. I think his meaning is that the throat is loose enough to accept the .316 boolit size, where-as one with a rather tight chamber like mine would probably be difficult and likely even swage the neck and bullet down if I tried to chamber one sized all the way up at .316 rather than the .311 I use.

Most of my posts on these forums are not necessarily directed at the authors I quote.
Always keep in mind, that the typical thread has as many as 50 times more member viewers as posters; and over time, there are many more non-member viewers that will see a post (as guests on the board, or search engine results).

I just wanted to make sure the less experienced readers of this thread didn't think sticking bullets in the throat, until one was snug, was an acceptable method of judging bore size (I've seen far worse methods actually used).

Rangefinder · February 8, 2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

I just wanted to make sure the less experienced readers of this thread didn't think sticking bullets in the throat, until one was snug, was an acceptable method of judging bore size (I've seen far worse methods actually used).

This, my friend, is entirely too true--it never ceases to amaze me what "gun smithing" methods I've witnessed over the years... Point well-made.

schnarrgj · February 8, 2011, 10:24 PM

One of the interesting things about these older rifles is that the designations do not necessarily correspond with today's designations. The 7.62 used by the Russians for their rifles and pistols, denote a bullet diameter of .311ish. With our 7.62 x51 nato, it is a .308. This is in a way like the swiss 7.5, it is actually a .308. This is what keeps it interesting.

You need to research these older firearms to see what they actually use. It can vary depending on who,when and how they were made. Sometimes I think the wind direction and the phase of the moon have an effect too. This is one reason you hear someone so often say "have it checked by a competent gunsmith". It is because through the the last 30 years of shooting, I have gained just enough knowledge to get myself in DEEP trouble.

rude robert · July 29, 2012, 05:53 PM

I know this is a old post of mine, but I FINALLY bought dies for the Mosin. It has two expander plugs with it. I will check the measurement of them, I believe he said one was 308 and 310". My bore is 313" probably more like 312. would that be too tight on a 303 bullet? I really dont like the limited choice on the 303 but then I was wondering if I went to a smaller diameter how would that do. I am tumbling brass now. I want to play with it, but do want to hit the side of a barn lol

GP100man · July 29, 2012, 09:57 PM

rr I posted on the other post , the larger may be enuff but a slight flare may save a crushed neck , certainly will help starting a bullet .

FrankenMauser · July 30, 2012, 12:33 AM

Use the .310" expander, and chamfer your case mouths. It'll be fine. (with good neck tension)

January 30, 2011, 08:15 PM	#1
rude robert Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Posts: 116	7.62x54 bullets? Hi, i met a guy at the Orange county gun show yesterday. He was saying that the bullets in .311 or .308 are shorter then the actual Russian bullets? He said that he couldn't find any bullets that are the proper lenght? I was about to buy the dies for it, then remembered that i read some where that besides the dies something else was needed to reload them. I am sure some one here knows something about this thx Robert

January 30, 2011, 09:08 PM	#2
schnarrgj Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: St Louis, Missouri Posts: 167	I have been reloading the 7.62x54r for a number of years. The length of the bullet is as far as I am concerned a non-issue. Just long enough to be seated in the case for enough tension to adequately hold the bullet and fit the magazine. Think of the 30-06. It has many different bullet lengths and weights. All will work. If you are going for bench rest accuracy, the bullet length will make a difference because you want to load it to very close to the lands. For my Mosin Nagants, I use either a .311 or .312 depending on which rifle that is going to shoot it. For all but two, I have had great results with the Rem 180 gr rn in .311. It has a longer bearing surface than most of the others and for me more accurate. As for as what else is needed but the dies, the proper shell holder. I don't have anything else. Now if you want to try .308 bullets, you will need a different expander ball for the sizing die. For me, .308 bullets have given me very poor results. Now for length of the actual bullets here are a few. Hungarian HB 1.313 in. 183gr .311 Hungarian LB 1.121 in. 148gr .3115 Albanian 1.281 in. 151gr .311 Hornady 1.068 in. 150gr spire point .312 Hornady 1.11 in. 174gr RN .312 Remington 1.062in. 180gr RN .311 __________________ Once I was young and stupid. Now that I am no longer young-------

January 31, 2011, 08:43 AM	#6
schnarrgj Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: St Louis, Missouri Posts: 167	You can very often find brass here http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/771. Also if you get some Privi Partizan, wolf gold or Winchester ammo, that brass is reloadable boxer primed. I do use my Mosins for hunting. If you have more then one, segregate the brass to each rifle in that the chambers will vary by a lot. I neck size to help with the life of teh brass. The barrels on my 10 Mosins bore vary from .3105 to .313. The .313 is a M91 built in 1897. The Finnish have the tighter barrels in the .308 range. __________________ Once I was young and stupid. Now that I am no longer young-------

January 31, 2011, 09:25 AM	#7
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Russian M44s Bores I cast for mine & have a .314 mold it does good in 1 rifle ,the other not so good, according to the fired brass it`ll will swallow a .316 bullet But I`m not going to get a 8mm mold & sizer for 1 rifle, maybe the Lee stuff later __________________ GP100man

February 1, 2011, 10:07 AM	#10
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	What about the Romanian PSLs? Do they generally have a .311-.312 dia bore also? I'd hate to run a lead sinker all the way down the bore with a wooden dowel to find out. I've got a set of calipers, but would I get an accurate reading with the calipers? Edited: I did some more looking and it looks like they are .311 aslo. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson Last edited by wpcexpert; February 1, 2011 at 10:15 AM.

January 31, 2011, 12:11 AM	#3
LloydXmas250 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 334	Do you know what caliber you need? I've read Mosins can be anywhere from .306 to .312. Have you checked your diameter? As said already, any length will do as long as you're within the maximum and minimum overall lengths.

January 31, 2011, 12:19 AM	#4
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	On a side note, how do you plan to reload 7.62x54R? Unless you buy hens-teeth-rare Boxer primed brass, you won't be able to reload them.

January 31, 2011, 01:07 AM	#5
LloydXmas250 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 334	That's a good comment. It's hard to reload 7.62X54R cheaper than buying it in bulk. But he may need the extra accuracy or better quality bullets for hunting. If he's ok with taking a loss on it for the brass then kudos. Where I'm at in CA there's a huge lead free zone. I wanted to hunt with my Mosin for the challenge but the my reloading shop charges $80 for 20 rounds of their own lead free 7.62X54R. So I look at it a few different ways.

February 1, 2011, 09:37 AM	#9
rude robert Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Posts: 116	Thx for the information, i swabbed/swagged the barrel and it wass .311. If you buy non military rounds like from winchester then you get your brass. ?? why would you need a expander for a .308 bullet? what diameter comes with the dies for 7.62x54?

February 7, 2011, 03:29 PM	#13
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Clark, That's quite a group for a Nagant! What was the range?

February 8, 2011, 07:26 AM	#15
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	Further Explanation Please? If 7.62x54R and 7.62 NATO are the same diameter caliber, (.308) why would you need to buy a different expander ball to size the casing to .308? Some of the postings are saying that they load larger sized bullets, (.311 up to .316), which would seem to me to need bigger sizing (larger expander) of the brass than a .308 bullet would. What size expander do the dies come with? I assumed that they would come with a .308 size expander. I don't own a Nagant yet, but I like to learn about everything so in case that day comes I will be well versed on what I will need.

February 8, 2011, 09:33 AM	#17
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	The bore on the one I was refering to is .314 & oblong at the muzzle , the shooter was of all things left handed !! Now the one that shoots better has a dead -on .312 bore , alittle ruff but .312 & it gets .313 bullets ! My mold the Lyman 314299 throws a .314 bullet & 305 nose ! __________________ GP100man

February 8, 2011, 10:24 PM	#20
schnarrgj Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: St Louis, Missouri Posts: 167	One of the interesting things about these older rifles is that the designations do not necessarily correspond with today's designations. The 7.62 used by the Russians for their rifles and pistols, denote a bullet diameter of .311ish. With our 7.62 x51 nato, it is a .308. This is in a way like the swiss 7.5, it is actually a .308. This is what keeps it interesting. You need to research these older firearms to see what they actually use. It can vary depending on who,when and how they were made. Sometimes I think the wind direction and the phase of the moon have an effect too. This is one reason you hear someone so often say "have it checked by a competent gunsmith". It is because through the the last 30 years of shooting, I have gained just enough knowledge to get myself in DEEP trouble. __________________ Once I was young and stupid. Now that I am no longer young-------

July 29, 2012, 05:53 PM	#21
rude robert Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Posts: 116	I know this is a old post of mine, but I FINALLY bought dies for the Mosin. It has two expander plugs with it. I will check the measurement of them, I believe he said one was 308 and 310". My bore is 313" probably more like 312. would that be too tight on a 303 bullet? I really dont like the limited choice on the 303 but then I was wondering if I went to a smaller diameter how would that do. I am tumbling brass now. I want to play with it, but do want to hit the side of a barn lol

July 29, 2012, 09:57 PM	#22
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	rr I posted on the other post , the larger may be enuff but a slight flare may save a crushed neck , certainly will help starting a bullet . __________________ GP100man

July 30, 2012, 12:33 AM	#23
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Use the .310" expander, and chamfer your case mouths. It'll be fine. (with good neck tension) __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.