.30-06 bullet selection: matchking vs gameking vs your fave?

antsi · November 22, 2009, 08:49 AM

Starting a load project in .30-06 for my new (to me) Savage 110. Primary purpose of this load will be range fun, to see how accurate I can get with this gun. That got me thinking Matchkings - always had good luck with those.

On the off chance I might take this gun hunting some time, I was wondering if it might be a good idea to play around with Gamekings instead.

If you've loaded both GK and MK, how do they compare for accuracy? If it helps, I don't anticipate shooting beyond 300 yards.

I do want to start out with 150gr bullets. When I was looking at the gun, the previous owner let me shoot it to try it out. All I had was some American Eagle 150gr, but I got a surprisingly good group with them.

If you have another favorite 150gr bullet for .30-06, please share.

CPTMurdoc30 · November 22, 2009, 09:34 AM

SMK are match bullets. Sierra doesn't worry about expansion characteristics of SMK bullets. They worry about them being the same bullet to bullet lot to lot.

I would not recommend their use on big game. So Yes I would find you a load that works with 155gr SMK and 155 gr SGK.

**Unclenick** · November 22, 2009, 10:45 AM

In general, match bullets are thinner-skinned than hunting bullets because it is easier to keep a thin jacket uniform in the forming process. The small hollow point in match bullets is an artifact of the forming process which forms the base solid, then draws the sides of the cup up, stuffs it with lead, then forms the open end into the nose profile. That leaves the small open hole behind. It is too small to expand, which is why those bullets can now be used in combat by snipers and squad marksmen. The base is formed from the bottom of the jacket cup because its symmetry is much more important to accuracy than the nose's is. You can mess a nose up quite a bit without much visible effect on short range accuracy, but even small dings in a base can mess with your groups.

You will be pleased to learn that the negative effects of small asymmetries in the bullet mass have much more effect on the point of impact at long range than they do at 100 yards. I have had Hornady and Speer and Sierra hunting bullets print cloverleafs at 100 yards. You just need to get them lined up straight with your bore, so a Redding or Forster full sliding sleeve competition seater die may be in your future.

At short range, and especially with shorter bullet bearing surface, as lighter bullets have, it is generally easier to make a flat base bullet shoot accurately that a boattail. The time it takes to clear the muzzle exaggerates any asymmetric venting of gas due to slight crown imperfections. It is common for recrowning a factory barrel to improve accuracy. The effect seems to be visible about half the time, and it is most visible with boattail bullets. In my experience, the boattail design doesn't usually really shine till you get to around 300 yards and beyond. In some guns it only takes 200 to see a difference, but it is usually more like 300.

Match bullets kill things fairly well up to a certain size. Certainly the military snipers have had success with them. Berger used to advice against hunting with their match bullets, but has now stopped doing so, based on customer feedback. I just wouldn't expect as fast a stop as an expanding bullet gives in most circumstances. It is hard to be certain, because match bullets tend to shed their jackets in game, leaving a fairly blunt lead mass. Veral Smith's work with flat meplat solids show they often kill as fast and hard as expanding bullets. So there's no absolute certainty about comparative lethality here in any particular situation, though I would feel a lot more secure against dangerous game with a blunt lead projectile that was hard cast, like the Beartooth Bullets or Laser Cast LBT type designs, and not the soft swaged lead core of a match bullet.

That said, there are few flat base match bullets except from the benchrest bullet makers. The Berger #30407 is a flat base 150 grain match bullet that you will find does extremely well. Berger bullets have equaled or bettered the Sierras in my tests, so quality isn't an issue. Sierra doesn't make a flat base 150 grain match bullet, but Berger doesn't make a 150 grain flat base hunting bullet. So the Sierra #2150 ProHunter would be my choice for a 100 yard hunting bullet. You could also try the Hornady 150 grain flat base Interlock. It has a cannelure, and so is likely to be a little harder to achieve perfection with than the Sierra, but it will be less expensive and, in my .222 Remington, the Hornady flat base spire point, despite its cannelure, outshot the Sierra boattails at 100 yards, so it's worth a try. Your gun just may like them best, and there is no arguing with success.

As you work up loads for accuracy, be aware that the best pet load on the planet will not make a rifle shoot bug holes if the crown is off, or it shifts in its stock, or if the lugs aren't lapped to mate perfectly. Crowning, bedding, and lug lapping are almost automatic for me these days. So is firelapping if the barrel is not a custom hand-lapped barrel. I want the bore straight and smooth enough not to foul significantly during an extended course of fire.

antsi · November 22, 2009, 01:05 PM

Thanks for the ideas so far.

Quote:

I would not recommend their use on big game. So Yes I would find you a load that works with 155gr SMK and 155 gr SGK.

I think I was unclear. I'm not talking about hunting with match bullets. I was thinking about shooting hunting bullets at paper, on the off chance that I may wind up hunting with this rifle some day. However, this is not an immediate prospect as my state doesn't allow hunting large game with centerfire rifles. More of a "contingency planing" thing.

hodaka · November 22, 2009, 01:32 PM

Although Sierra Matchkings have always been my favorites, I have begun to use Hornady AMax more and more. I can't say they are more accurate, but they aren't any less accurate in my experience. I have found that when I work up a load with the Matchkings, the ProHunters or Gamekings in the same weight had pretty much the same POI.

amamnn · November 22, 2009, 03:40 PM

I have had the same experience with the MKs except that I've switched to Berger bullets.

HiBC · November 23, 2009, 05:48 AM

Sierra is a great bullet company,they make a top product,and the have been a great asset to shooters.Try both bullets,they may shoot very close,point of aim.You might consider the 155 Palma bullet,also,though I' try them in small qty before I bought a 1000.

I have also found the Nosler Ballistic tip to be a very accurate bullet,good BC's,and they have a Custom Comp bullet in 155 and 168 grThe BT is a good thinskin hunter,with the Accubond for more penetration.

Hornady SSt's are another possibility.They are a sleek,accurate,polymer tip hunting bullet.

On the A-Max and other long ogive VLDish bullets.While the can give superb results,that long ogive has 2 drawbacks.One,it ,with a long boat tail,leaves a short bearing surface on the bullet.another issue,not likely a problem on a 150 30 cal bullet,mag box length can limit LOA to a point the rifling will be some jump away from the bullet.I have this problem with a M-70 7mag,about .150 off the lands is the best I can do.

At 300 yds,really,BC is not an issue so much.A flat base bullet might give a longer cylindrical bearing surface.

My point,have fun learning about it!!Try,compare,study,keep notes.Get Sierra's ballistic software.Good luck!!

darkgael · November 23, 2009, 06:59 AM

As far as .30 cal bullets are concerned, I have had my greatest success with run of the mill 165 Remington PSP hunting bullets. Flat base, soft point. Cheap. In five different rifles (a converted Mauser, a T/C Encore, a 1903 Springfield and an 03A3, and a Rizzini 90L), that bullet and a load of 54 grains of 4350 has produced MOA groups at 100 yards.
There used to be a greater price differential between the Remington bullets (about 23 cents each nowadays) and the match hollow points (about 30 cents each). For general range use and hunting, the match bullets stay home; only for competition are they nowadays (and that rarely).
Pete

zxd9 · November 23, 2009, 09:28 AM

I've shot both the 165gr GK and the 168gr MK in .308 and have found that they are very close in accuracy. Close enough that I may shoot more GK's because they are a bit cheaper.

November 22, 2009, 08:49 AM	#1
antsi Member Join Date: April 20, 2002 Posts: 92	.30-06 bullet selection: matchking vs gameking vs your fave? Starting a load project in .30-06 for my new (to me) Savage 110. Primary purpose of this load will be range fun, to see how accurate I can get with this gun. That got me thinking Matchkings - always had good luck with those. On the off chance I might take this gun hunting some time, I was wondering if it might be a good idea to play around with Gamekings instead. If you've loaded both GK and MK, how do they compare for accuracy? If it helps, I don't anticipate shooting beyond 300 yards. I do want to start out with 150gr bullets. When I was looking at the gun, the previous owner let me shoot it to try it out. All I had was some American Eagle 150gr, but I got a surprisingly good group with them. If you have another favorite 150gr bullet for .30-06, please share.

November 22, 2009, 03:40 PM	#6
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	I have had the same experience with the MKs except that I've switched to Berger bullets. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

November 23, 2009, 06:59 AM	#8
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Bullets As far as .30 cal bullets are concerned, I have had my greatest success with run of the mill 165 Remington PSP hunting bullets. Flat base, soft point. Cheap. In five different rifles (a converted Mauser, a T/C Encore, a 1903 Springfield and an 03A3, and a Rizzini 90L), that bullet and a load of 54 grains of 4350 has produced MOA groups at 100 yards. There used to be a greater price differential between the Remington bullets (about 23 cents each nowadays) and the match hollow points (about 30 cents each). For general range use and hunting, the match bullets stay home; only for competition are they nowadays (and that rarely). Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

November 22, 2009, 09:34 AM	#2
CPTMurdoc30 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: Stafford VA Posts: 969	SMK are match bullets. Sierra doesn't worry about expansion characteristics of SMK bullets. They worry about them being the same bullet to bullet lot to lot. I would not recommend their use on big game. So Yes I would find you a load that works with 155gr SMK and 155 gr SGK. __________________ Solving Virginia's Ground Hog problems 50gr at a time.....

November 22, 2009, 10:45 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	In general, match bullets are thinner-skinned than hunting bullets because it is easier to keep a thin jacket uniform in the forming process. The small hollow point in match bullets is an artifact of the forming process which forms the base solid, then draws the sides of the cup up, stuffs it with lead, then forms the open end into the nose profile. That leaves the small open hole behind. It is too small to expand, which is why those bullets can now be used in combat by snipers and squad marksmen. The base is formed from the bottom of the jacket cup because its symmetry is much more important to accuracy than the nose's is. You can mess a nose up quite a bit without much visible effect on short range accuracy, but even small dings in a base can mess with your groups. You will be pleased to learn that the negative effects of small asymmetries in the bullet mass have much more effect on the point of impact at long range than they do at 100 yards. I have had Hornady and Speer and Sierra hunting bullets print cloverleafs at 100 yards. You just need to get them lined up straight with your bore, so a Redding or Forster full sliding sleeve competition seater die may be in your future. At short range, and especially with shorter bullet bearing surface, as lighter bullets have, it is generally easier to make a flat base bullet shoot accurately that a boattail. The time it takes to clear the muzzle exaggerates any asymmetric venting of gas due to slight crown imperfections. It is common for recrowning a factory barrel to improve accuracy. The effect seems to be visible about half the time, and it is most visible with boattail bullets. In my experience, the boattail design doesn't usually really shine till you get to around 300 yards and beyond. In some guns it only takes 200 to see a difference, but it is usually more like 300. Match bullets kill things fairly well up to a certain size. Certainly the military snipers have had success with them. Berger used to advice against hunting with their match bullets, but has now stopped doing so, based on customer feedback. I just wouldn't expect as fast a stop as an expanding bullet gives in most circumstances. It is hard to be certain, because match bullets tend to shed their jackets in game, leaving a fairly blunt lead mass. Veral Smith's work with flat meplat solids show they often kill as fast and hard as expanding bullets. So there's no absolute certainty about comparative lethality here in any particular situation, though I would feel a lot more secure against dangerous game with a blunt lead projectile that was hard cast, like the Beartooth Bullets or Laser Cast LBT type designs, and not the soft swaged lead core of a match bullet. That said, there are few flat base match bullets except from the benchrest bullet makers. The Berger #30407 is a flat base 150 grain match bullet that you will find does extremely well. Berger bullets have equaled or bettered the Sierras in my tests, so quality isn't an issue. Sierra doesn't make a flat base 150 grain match bullet, but Berger doesn't make a 150 grain flat base hunting bullet. So the Sierra #2150 ProHunter would be my choice for a 100 yard hunting bullet. You could also try the Hornady 150 grain flat base Interlock. It has a cannelure, and so is likely to be a little harder to achieve perfection with than the Sierra, but it will be less expensive and, in my .222 Remington, the Hornady flat base spire point, despite its cannelure, outshot the Sierra boattails at 100 yards, so it's worth a try. Your gun just may like them best, and there is no arguing with success. As you work up loads for accuracy, be aware that the best pet load on the planet will not make a rifle shoot bug holes if the crown is off, or it shifts in its stock, or if the lugs aren't lapped to mate perfectly. Crowning, bedding, and lug lapping are almost automatic for me these days. So is firelapping if the barrel is not a custom hand-lapped barrel. I want the bore straight and smooth enough not to foul significantly during an extended course of fire. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 22, 2009, 01:32 PM	#5
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Although Sierra Matchkings have always been my favorites, I have begun to use Hornady AMax more and more. I can't say they are more accurate, but they aren't any less accurate in my experience. I have found that when I work up a load with the Matchkings, the ProHunters or Gamekings in the same weight had pretty much the same POI.

November 23, 2009, 05:48 AM	#7
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Sierra is a great bullet company,they make a top product,and the have been a great asset to shooters.Try both bullets,they may shoot very close,point of aim.You might consider the 155 Palma bullet,also,though I' try them in small qty before I bought a 1000. I have also found the Nosler Ballistic tip to be a very accurate bullet,good BC's,and they have a Custom Comp bullet in 155 and 168 grThe BT is a good thinskin hunter,with the Accubond for more penetration. Hornady SSt's are another possibility.They are a sleek,accurate,polymer tip hunting bullet. On the A-Max and other long ogive VLDish bullets.While the can give superb results,that long ogive has 2 drawbacks.One,it ,with a long boat tail,leaves a short bearing surface on the bullet.another issue,not likely a problem on a 150 30 cal bullet,mag box length can limit LOA to a point the rifling will be some jump away from the bullet.I have this problem with a M-70 7mag,about .150 off the lands is the best I can do. At 300 yds,really,BC is not an issue so much.A flat base bullet might give a longer cylindrical bearing surface. My point,have fun learning about it!!Try,compare,study,keep notes.Get Sierra's ballistic software.Good luck!!

November 23, 2009, 09:28 AM	#9
zxd9 Member Join Date: November 9, 2006 Posts: 27	I've shot both the 165gr GK and the 168gr MK in .308 and have found that they are very close in accuracy. Close enough that I may shoot more GK's because they are a bit cheaper.