.300 Savage Workup

ligonierbill · September 28, 2010, 09:04 PM

Sneaking up on a good load for .300 Savage. Given their low cost and the (by today's standards) modest velocity of the round, I have been loading Remington Core-Lokt 150's. Finding no published loads for these bullets, I'm being pretty conservative. Top load measured last Saturday was 41.5 grains of IMR 4064 at an average of 2,538 fps, STD 9.3. Anyone else loading these bullets? I have a good load for Speer 165's at about 2,600 fps, so I think these Remingtons can go a bit faster safely. No observed pressure signs on any of these. Comments? Advice?

**Unclenick** · September 28, 2010, 09:34 PM

I could try running it in QuickLOAD for you. I need the water weight capacity and length of one of your fired, but not yet resized cases. This is acquired by weighing the dry case with the spent primer still in it, then filling it with water until it is flush (no meniscus) with the case mouth and weighing again, then taking the difference in the two weights. I also need the length of the Remington bullet (which is missing from the database) and the COL you are using and last, but not least, the length of your barrel.

**Mike Irwin** · September 29, 2010, 08:36 AM

First, are you loading a bolt rifle or a lever action?

Your load, right now, is at or above most book loads, so you're entering the caution zone.

That said, IMR powders tend to be extremely forgiving in that they will allow you quite a bit of leeway in top loads and will generally start giving you pressure signs long before you get anywhere close to a dangerous loading.

That said, as you get to the top load shown in your book, and over, you should be employing a micrometer or digital caliper to check head expansion to make sure the case head isn't starting to balloon on you. That's a far better indicator of what's going on in the cartridge, IMHO.

I've always favored the IMR powders for that reason when loading my rifle cartridges.

You should be able to take load data for just about any 150-gr. bullet of similar construction and profile and use it to work up your loads.

For a long time I loaded my .300 Savage with 150-gr. Nosler bullets, but I didn't have a Nosler loading guide - I used Hornady and Speer guides at that time.

I chose my start point and started working up from there.

I was loading for a Savage 99, so it was a bit different, I had to contend with normal case head expansion making the gun stick to close, so as I got closer to, and then over, the loads shown in the book for my powder, the problem got progressively worse.

I finally dropped back to a load about 1.5 grains under the max shown in one of the loading guides. It proved to be exceptionally accurate and still gave me roughly 2,450 fps, which is more than adequate for deer hunting in Pennsylvania.

oneoldsap · September 29, 2010, 08:00 PM

I like W-748 in my .300 Savage Rem. 760 with the Speer 150 RN . My load is 39 Grains and is very accurate from my gun !

ligonierbill · September 29, 2010, 08:37 PM

It's a Savage 99. Unclenick, I'll have to get home to my bench to do some measurements. I don't think I'm pushing it yet, as I have a little higher velocity in this rifle with 165's, no problem. Now, in practical terms, this rifle has a front bead and rear 'buckhorn' sights. For these old eyes, that means 200 yard max, so 2,500 is probably fine. But I'd like to get 2,600+ just cause. Oh, the reason for 150's is the sights. Heavier bullets go high and left, and the sights are as low as they go. Commercial 150's are on target. This is a 1941 rifle, so no mods allowed.

Loader9 · September 29, 2010, 08:50 PM

If you have a copy of the American Rifleman from about June-July 2009, they had an article about loading for the Savage. The worst group with a 150 bullet came from IMR4064 but it also had the lowest SD- so much for SD. They got their best accuracy from a 130 gr bullet using N-140 powder. If you have the article, might wanna read it. If not, I'll try to post particulars if you like.
And their rifle was a model 99.

**Unclenick** · September 29, 2010, 09:04 PM

It takes a lot of SD just to change bullet drop a quarter inch at 100 yards. It grows out of proportion to distance and, with the wrong bullet choice, can grow to three feet at 1000 yards. So, it's the long range shooters whose groups suffer if the SD isn't small. At short ranges, you don't hardly notice.

**Mike Irwin** · September 29, 2010, 09:37 PM

Whereas with IMR-4064 my 1936 vintage Savage 99EG is a tack driver.

Every gun is an individual.

chiefr · September 30, 2010, 10:57 AM

My favorite is 37.0 BLC-2 with a 150 gr bullet. Gives me 1" groups.

Scorch · September 30, 2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Your load, right now, is at or above most book loads, so you're entering the caution zone.

Quote:

I have been loading Remington Core-Lokt 150's. Finding no published loads for these bullets, I'm being pretty conservative. Top load measured last Saturday was 41.5 grains of IMR 4064

Mike, are you looking at the 150s? That load is below Lyman (42.2 gr IMR4064 max), Hornady (44.0 gr IMR4064 max), and Sierra (41.8 gr IMR4064 max).

ligionerbill, I would find the most accurate load and go with that. You said you do not intend to shoot over 200 yds, so 60 fps more will make little difference. FWIW, Lyman lists the most accurate load as 42.0 gr of Varget, which is the max load in their test rifle.

**Mike Irwin** · September 30, 2010, 08:20 PM

Scorch,

Actually, I was looking at Hodgdon's powder site on the web, as they're the distributor for IMR powders these days. I shouldn't have said "books."

Hodgdon shows a max of 40 grains of 4064.

ligonierbill · October 2, 2010, 07:56 AM

Finally got home to check my manuals. Hornady and Sierra both get 2,800 out of this cartridge with their 150's, Hornady with 44 grains of IMR 4064 (Savage bolt action). Now Speer limits 4064 to 41.5, where I am, and they are just over 2,600 from the same rifle. Commercial ammo is just over 2,600. History says that Savage originally advertised the .300 as equivalent to 30-06 cartridges of the time: 150 @ 2,700. The reality was more like 2,600. Bottom line: I'll keep this load and try some different powders. Thanks for the discussion.

fineredmist · October 2, 2010, 08:21 AM

The velocity figures published by manufactures are the figures they obtained with their equipment under lab conditions and do not necessarily mean that you will obtain the same results. The varibles involved are numerous and all play a part in the test results, for example the condition of the bore is critical. Is the bore smooth and tight or is it damaged? What is the condition of your brass? The list goes on and on. If you are close to the advertized velocity and the rounds will shoot groups that are acceptable for your application then call it a day. A deer will not know or care if it is hit at 2500 fps or 2600 fps.

Accuracy is the key, velocity is meaningless if you can't hit what you are shooting at.

September 28, 2010, 09:04 PM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,467	.300 Savage Workup Sneaking up on a good load for .300 Savage. Given their low cost and the (by today's standards) modest velocity of the round, I have been loading Remington Core-Lokt 150's. Finding no published loads for these bullets, I'm being pretty conservative. Top load measured last Saturday was 41.5 grains of IMR 4064 at an average of 2,538 fps, STD 9.3. Anyone else loading these bullets? I have a good load for Speer 165's at about 2,600 fps, so I think these Remingtons can go a bit faster safely. No observed pressure signs on any of these. Comments? Advice?

September 28, 2010, 09:34 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,093	I could try running it in QuickLOAD for you. I need the water weight capacity and length of one of your fired, but not yet resized cases. This is acquired by weighing the dry case with the spent primer still in it, then filling it with water until it is flush (no meniscus) with the case mouth and weighing again, then taking the difference in the two weights. I also need the length of the Remington bullet (which is missing from the database) and the COL you are using and last, but not least, the length of your barrel. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 29, 2010, 08:36 AM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,405	First, are you loading a bolt rifle or a lever action? Your load, right now, is at or above most book loads, so you're entering the caution zone. That said, IMR powders tend to be extremely forgiving in that they will allow you quite a bit of leeway in top loads and will generally start giving you pressure signs long before you get anywhere close to a dangerous loading. That said, as you get to the top load shown in your book, and over, you should be employing a micrometer or digital caliper to check head expansion to make sure the case head isn't starting to balloon on you. That's a far better indicator of what's going on in the cartridge, IMHO. I've always favored the IMR powders for that reason when loading my rifle cartridges. You should be able to take load data for just about any 150-gr. bullet of similar construction and profile and use it to work up your loads. For a long time I loaded my .300 Savage with 150-gr. Nosler bullets, but I didn't have a Nosler loading guide - I used Hornady and Speer guides at that time. I chose my start point and started working up from there. I was loading for a Savage 99, so it was a bit different, I had to contend with normal case head expansion making the gun stick to close, so as I got closer to, and then over, the loads shown in the book for my powder, the problem got progressively worse. I finally dropped back to a load about 1.5 grains under the max shown in one of the loading guides. It proved to be exceptionally accurate and still gave me roughly 2,450 fps, which is more than adequate for deer hunting in Pennsylvania. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 29, 2010, 09:04 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,093	It takes a lot of SD just to change bullet drop a quarter inch at 100 yards. It grows out of proportion to distance and, with the wrong bullet choice, can grow to three feet at 1000 yards. So, it's the long range shooters whose groups suffer if the SD isn't small. At short ranges, you don't hardly notice. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 29, 2010, 09:37 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,405	Whereas with IMR-4064 my 1936 vintage Savage 99EG is a tack driver. Every gun is an individual. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 29, 2010, 08:00 PM	#4
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	I like W-748 in my .300 Savage Rem. 760 with the Speer 150 RN . My load is 39 Grains and is very accurate from my gun !

September 29, 2010, 08:37 PM	#5
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,467	It's a Savage 99. Unclenick, I'll have to get home to my bench to do some measurements. I don't think I'm pushing it yet, as I have a little higher velocity in this rifle with 165's, no problem. Now, in practical terms, this rifle has a front bead and rear 'buckhorn' sights. For these old eyes, that means 200 yard max, so 2,500 is probably fine. But I'd like to get 2,600+ just cause. Oh, the reason for 150's is the sights. Heavier bullets go high and left, and the sights are as low as they go. Commercial 150's are on target. This is a 1941 rifle, so no mods allowed.

September 29, 2010, 08:50 PM	#6
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	If you have a copy of the American Rifleman from about June-July 2009, they had an article about loading for the Savage. The worst group with a 150 bullet came from IMR4064 but it also had the lowest SD- so much for SD. They got their best accuracy from a 130 gr bullet using N-140 powder. If you have the article, might wanna read it. If not, I'll try to post particulars if you like. And their rifle was a model 99.

September 30, 2010, 10:57 AM	#9
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	My favorite is 37.0 BLC-2 with a 150 gr bullet. Gives me 1" groups.

September 30, 2010, 08:20 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,405	Scorch, Actually, I was looking at Hodgdon's powder site on the web, as they're the distributor for IMR powders these days. I shouldn't have said "books." Hodgdon shows a max of 40 grains of 4064. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 2, 2010, 07:56 AM	#12
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,467	Finally got home to check my manuals. Hornady and Sierra both get 2,800 out of this cartridge with their 150's, Hornady with 44 grains of IMR 4064 (Savage bolt action). Now Speer limits 4064 to 41.5, where I am, and they are just over 2,600 from the same rifle. Commercial ammo is just over 2,600. History says that Savage originally advertised the .300 as equivalent to 30-06 cartridges of the time: 150 @ 2,700. The reality was more like 2,600. Bottom line: I'll keep this load and try some different powders. Thanks for the discussion.

October 2, 2010, 08:21 AM	#13
fineredmist Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2008 Location: Wethersfield, ct Posts: 128	The velocity figures published by manufactures are the figures they obtained with their equipment under lab conditions and do not necessarily mean that you will obtain the same results. The varibles involved are numerous and all play a part in the test results, for example the condition of the bore is critical. Is the bore smooth and tight or is it damaged? What is the condition of your brass? The list goes on and on. If you are close to the advertized velocity and the rounds will shoot groups that are acceptable for your application then call it a day. A deer will not know or care if it is hit at 2500 fps or 2600 fps. Accuracy is the key, velocity is meaningless if you can't hit what you are shooting at.