More issues for the Noobster here!

Maxx_Ammo · February 7, 2012, 03:20 PM

Ok Im hooked and want to do it right.. im having some issues with rounds locking fully into battery.. is that a crimping issue or OAL issue? the spacifics are on 9mm:
Gun- Ruger p94 (sons)
Bullet- 124 rn (copper plated
powder charge- bullseye (middle of the road)
OAL- 1.114

whats wrong here about every 7-8 do not fully lock into battery and requier the **rap ** on the slide?

checkmyswag · February 7, 2012, 03:24 PM

Are you letting the slide slam home or riding it?

CrustyFN · February 7, 2012, 03:32 PM

I would suspect the OAL is too long. When you eject the round are there scratches on the bullet? With 9mm you don't need to crimp you just need to get rid of the flair you put in with the powder/expander die. I'm not familiar with your Ruger. I have a CZ which is known to have a short chamber and had to seat plated bullets to 1.036 to get them to chamber.

hk33ka1 · February 7, 2012, 03:40 PM

I found with my .45ACP that Plated bullets of the same weight and rough shape of FMJ had to be seated shorter. The ogive (part of bullets tip that is the same size as barrel/first part to touch rifling) is in a different position.

In the case of my 45 230gr FMJ 1.25" OAL, plated 230gr 1.20" to chamber without jamming.

m&p45acp10+1 · February 7, 2012, 03:55 PM

Is it doing this with just one shooter, or both of you? If it is only doing it with one shooter then it would probably be from limp wrising. Ceck your grip, and lean into the shot a bit more it will stop the problem.

If it is not from limp wristing then try seating a bit shorter. If that does not do it, give your seating die about an eighth of a turn down. Then check the rounds. It sounds to me more like an OAL issue. I have had the same problem when I started loading for 9mm with 124 grain plated HP's.

Maxx_Ammo · February 7, 2012, 04:25 PM

Im not riding it and it seems to be slamming shut due to a correct power charge.. I will look for the scratches and have just opend the case a lil more due to the jacket appearing to be bunching up on some rounds..

Thanks I will let you know the outcome.. time to go monkey around some..

Spammy_H · February 7, 2012, 04:53 PM

Take the barrel out of your gun and drop one of your rounds into the barrel - does it fall in with a "thunk", or kind of ease in? If it doesn't just drop in, I'd add a little more crimp (a taper crimp should still be visible, tactile) - you may not be crimping enough.

If it drop in easily, where is the case head in relation to the chamber? If the case isn't fully inside the chamber, your OAL is probably too long.

Here's Hodgdon's data for OAL for a 125 gr. LRN and FMJ:

125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.125" 3.6 1002 22,900 CUP 4.0 1096 30,400 CUP
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.090" 4.1 1069 27,300 CUP 4.4 1136 30,600 CUP

Based on this data, 1.14 looks a little long.

serf 'rett · February 7, 2012, 05:04 PM

Perhaps you could explain the jacket "bunching up around the rounds"

Will the round easily drop into the barrel when it's removed from the pistol?

serf 'rett · February 7, 2012, 05:10 PM

Are you using Berrys 124 grain hollow back round nose bullets? When I use that bullet in one of my pistols, I must seat it deeper, with a 1.070 oal, to keep the round from headspacing off the bullet.

m&p45acp10+1 · February 7, 2012, 06:01 PM

Ok now with hearing abut the plating bunching up.

Is it doing that when seating them?

If it is then set your flare die to flare a little more. Then try seating, if you are still getting the bunching up then try seating first, then removing the flare. I am betting it is over not enough case flare. This will cause the event you describe, and lightly bulge the rounds.

howlnmad · February 7, 2012, 08:01 PM

"plating bunching up"

Or it could be slightly longer brass starting to crimp while the bullet is still seating.

Maxx_Ammo · February 7, 2012, 08:35 PM

checked the brass lenght and they are OK..

plating bunching up seem to be a lil lip around the copper to brass intersection .. I opend the case up more and seemed to help..

I think I want to seperate the seating and crimping..

Im useing a brand new Hornady LNL.. I want to consider a Tpx powder expander to free up a station so I can seperate the seat/crimp.. any advice and is this worth the money?

Lost Sheep · February 7, 2012, 10:21 PM

Indulge me a bit, please.

Take a factory round and drop it into your barrel (disassembled from your gun) with gravity alone as Spammy_H suggests, listening for a pleasant "thunk". Observe where the base of the cartrige is. Upend the barrel and the round should drop out by gravity alone. Do your handloads do the same? Observe where the base of your handloaded cartridgte is. Same place?

Does the failure to chamber happen only when shooting or also when chambering a round manually? If only when shooting, it could be limp wristing or the recoil of the round being not enough to fully cycle the action (lighter recoil spring would help). If it happens even when manually releasing the slide, it is probably (as several have speculated before me)

1) the case mouth still being too belled and jamming as it enteres the chamber - apply a little more taper crimp.

2) the bullet hitting the rifling - seat a little deeper, but take care to adjust your powder charge to avoid overpressure conditions

3) the bullet being a little oversized - unlikely, but post-sizing should fix that

4) the plating is being scraped from the side of the bullets and building up in front of the case mouth, effectively making your case too long for your chamber - make sure you have adjusted the seat/crimp die correctly (you may be crimping too much as the bullet is still being seated) or

5) You have not belled the case mouth enough to let the bullet enter the case - increase your bell.

Some other suggestions:

If you want, you can make an experiment to see if separating the crimping from the seating will help. You can separate the operations with your existing Seat/Crimp die.

When seating, back the body of the die out so it applies no crimp, but run the seating stem down to seat the bullet to the right OAL. Do all your bullets that way. No crimp.

Then take your entire production run and run them through the press again with only just the Seat/Crimp die installed in your press. Take the seating stem all the way out (or adjusted 'way out) and adjust the die body to apply a taper crimp.

Good luck and thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep

February 7, 2012, 03:20 PM	#1
Maxx_Ammo Member Join Date: January 27, 2012 Posts: 49	More issues for the Noobster here! Ok Im hooked and want to do it right.. im having some issues with rounds locking fully into battery.. is that a crimping issue or OAL issue? the spacifics are on 9mm: Gun- Ruger p94 (sons) Bullet- 124 rn (copper plated powder charge- bullseye (middle of the road) OAL- 1.114 whats wrong here about every 7-8 do not fully lock into battery and requier the rap on the slide?

February 7, 2012, 03:32 PM	#3
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I would suspect the OAL is too long. When you eject the round are there scratches on the bullet? With 9mm you don't need to crimp you just need to get rid of the flair you put in with the powder/expander die. I'm not familiar with your Ruger. I have a CZ which is known to have a short chamber and had to seat plated bullets to 1.036 to get them to chamber. __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

February 7, 2012, 03:55 PM	#5
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Is it doing this with just one shooter, or both of you? If it is only doing it with one shooter then it would probably be from limp wrising. Ceck your grip, and lean into the shot a bit more it will stop the problem. If it is not from limp wristing then try seating a bit shorter. If that does not do it, give your seating die about an eighth of a turn down. Then check the rounds. It sounds to me more like an OAL issue. I have had the same problem when I started loading for 9mm with 124 grain plated HP's. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

February 7, 2012, 04:25 PM	#6
Maxx_Ammo Member Join Date: January 27, 2012 Posts: 49	thanks Im not riding it and it seems to be slamming shut due to a correct power charge.. I will look for the scratches and have just opend the case a lil more due to the jacket appearing to be bunching up on some rounds.. Thanks I will let you know the outcome.. time to go monkey around some..

February 7, 2012, 05:04 PM	#8
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Perhaps you could explain the jacket "bunching up around the rounds" Will the round easily drop into the barrel when it's removed from the pistol? __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

February 7, 2012, 03:24 PM	#2
checkmyswag Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,328	Are you letting the slide slam home or riding it?

February 7, 2012, 03:40 PM	#4
hk33ka1 Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2010 Posts: 275	I found with my .45ACP that Plated bullets of the same weight and rough shape of FMJ had to be seated shorter. The ogive (part of bullets tip that is the same size as barrel/first part to touch rifling) is in a different position. In the case of my 45 230gr FMJ 1.25" OAL, plated 230gr 1.20" to chamber without jamming.

February 7, 2012, 04:53 PM	#7
Spammy_H Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2009 Posts: 220	Take the barrel out of your gun and drop one of your rounds into the barrel - does it fall in with a "thunk", or kind of ease in? If it doesn't just drop in, I'd add a little more crimp (a taper crimp should still be visible, tactile) - you may not be crimping enough. If it drop in easily, where is the case head in relation to the chamber? If the case isn't fully inside the chamber, your OAL is probably too long. Here's Hodgdon's data for OAL for a 125 gr. LRN and FMJ: 125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.125" 3.6 1002 22,900 CUP 4.0 1096 30,400 CUP 125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.090" 4.1 1069 27,300 CUP 4.4 1136 30,600 CUP Based on this data, 1.14 looks a little long.

February 7, 2012, 05:10 PM	#9
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Are you using Berrys 124 grain hollow back round nose bullets? When I use that bullet in one of my pistols, I must seat it deeper, with a 1.070 oal, to keep the round from headspacing off the bullet. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

February 7, 2012, 06:01 PM	#10
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Ok now with hearing abut the plating bunching up. Is it doing that when seating them? If it is then set your flare die to flare a little more. Then try seating, if you are still getting the bunching up then try seating first, then removing the flare. I am betting it is over not enough case flare. This will cause the event you describe, and lightly bulge the rounds. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

February 7, 2012, 08:01 PM	#11
howlnmad Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Location: Harriman Tn Posts: 424	"plating bunching up" Or it could be slightly longer brass starting to crimp while the bullet is still seating.

February 7, 2012, 08:35 PM	#12
Maxx_Ammo Member Join Date: January 27, 2012 Posts: 49	continued checked the brass lenght and they are OK.. plating bunching up seem to be a lil lip around the copper to brass intersection .. I opend the case up more and seemed to help.. I think I want to seperate the seating and crimping.. Im useing a brand new Hornady LNL.. I want to consider a Tpx powder expander to free up a station so I can seperate the seat/crimp.. any advice and is this worth the money?

February 7, 2012, 10:21 PM	#13
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Indulge me a bit, please. Take a factory round and drop it into your barrel (disassembled from your gun) with gravity alone as Spammy_H suggests, listening for a pleasant "thunk". Observe where the base of the cartrige is. Upend the barrel and the round should drop out by gravity alone. Do your handloads do the same? Observe where the base of your handloaded cartridgte is. Same place? Does the failure to chamber happen only when shooting or also when chambering a round manually? If only when shooting, it could be limp wristing or the recoil of the round being not enough to fully cycle the action (lighter recoil spring would help). If it happens even when manually releasing the slide, it is probably (as several have speculated before me) 1) the case mouth still being too belled and jamming as it enteres the chamber - apply a little more taper crimp. 2) the bullet hitting the rifling - seat a little deeper, but take care to adjust your powder charge to avoid overpressure conditions 3) the bullet being a little oversized - unlikely, but post-sizing should fix that 4) the plating is being scraped from the side of the bullets and building up in front of the case mouth, effectively making your case too long for your chamber - make sure you have adjusted the seat/crimp die correctly (you may be crimping too much as the bullet is still being seated) or 5) You have not belled the case mouth enough to let the bullet enter the case - increase your bell. Some other suggestions: If you want, you can make an experiment to see if separating the crimping from the seating will help. You can separate the operations with your existing Seat/Crimp die. When seating, back the body of the die out so it applies no crimp, but run the seating stem down to seat the bullet to the right OAL. Do all your bullets that way. No crimp. Then take your entire production run and run them through the press again with only just the Seat/Crimp die installed in your press. Take the seating stem all the way out (or adjusted 'way out) and adjust the die body to apply a taper crimp. Good luck and thanks for asking our advice. Lost Sheep

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search