|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 16, 2015, 09:02 PM | #51 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 6, 2014
Posts: 6,432
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa |
||
June 16, 2015, 09:05 PM | #52 |
Member In Memoriam
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
|
The ID would not have to be a drivers license, but I would not accept anything that was not a government issued picture ID, with the local address on it. And I would, if at all possible, photograph or photocopy the ID. That would keep an ATF scammer from claiming that he never showed you ID or that he showed you an out-of-state ID.
The best practice, IMHO, is to meet the buyer at a dealer's store, and have him do the paperwork (for a fee). That is required in some states; many see it as limiting "freedom" but it also serves to protect the innocent from "sting" operations. Jim |
June 16, 2015, 09:25 PM | #53 | |||
Staff
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
|
Quote:
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
|||
June 16, 2015, 09:42 PM | #54 | |||||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 22, 2004
Posts: 2,018
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
All of that pretty much spells out why I photo the ID, and I tell them upfront about it. I couldn't care less about offending the buyer or a losing the sale. I'm not there to make a buck or desperately pawn off a gun to anyone with cash. I'll have their identity, and be able to easily show due diligence beyond the opaque private transfer laws... its just good cya. Quote:
It's not as if the paper is getting sent to the ATF for future door knocks and confiscation. But... the papers could sure help if your old gun turns up at a crime scene, or if your buddy unwittingly sells you a stolen gun, or... What I said isn't really intended as a cheap shot, although I can see how it could read that way. Its mostly aimed at those who talk big "I don’t care what Uncle Sam says, this is a free country, I'll do what I want and sell whatever I want to whoever I want". We all know that guy... the one who routinely makes us all look bad. Last edited by Dashunde; June 17, 2015 at 10:19 AM. |
|||||
June 17, 2015, 01:26 AM | #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,292
|
Tom-Post #38
Quote:
|
|
June 17, 2015, 07:38 AM | #56 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
|
Quote:
If I sell a gun under suspicious circumstances to someone who I openly acknowledge was acting "weird and kinda sketchy," I've failed on the duty to care front. If someone loses a family member as a result, I've got a very real problem on my hands. The burden of proof for civil negligence is lower than it is for criminal negligence.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe |
|
June 17, 2015, 09:04 AM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
|
Thank you Tom Servo. I see what we called lawyers in the military spouting off on line all the time. It is always the same nonsense about what is legal under the criminal code. Some of these people are actually lawyers. I see advice like "Go ahead and do it, that law is not legal" printed all the time. That is like telling someone to not look both ways when crossing at a designated crosswalk because motorists have to legally stop for pedestrians in that state. Sometimes the repercussions of the act can be pretty bad. If you get involved in a civil lawsuit, you are going to wish you were charged with a criminal offense instead of being sued.
Last edited by Tom Servo; June 17, 2015 at 11:41 AM. |
June 17, 2015, 11:16 AM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
|
The buyer of any gun i sell is i'd. The name and address of the buyer goes on my Excel database of guns i own/have owned. i prefer to see an OK concealed carry permit when selling a handgun.
|
June 17, 2015, 09:59 PM | #59 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
|
I think not having ID that verifies a claim of residency would fall under the 'reasonable cause to have known' language of the law, and you are on thin, cracking ice, indeed.
Doesn't pass the Prudent Man test. |
June 18, 2015, 08:55 AM | #60 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
|
Quote:
|
|
June 18, 2015, 09:18 AM | #61 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Gwinnett County Georgia
Posts: 1,136
|
Quote:
__________________
Do not follow where the path may lead, go, instead where there is no path and leave a trail - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
|
June 18, 2015, 10:15 AM | #62 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Swamp dweller
Posts: 6,187
|
Quote:
They found me (4473 paper trail) NJ calls mfg, mfg gives distributors name, who gives dealers name, who produces my 4473 as last know owner.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be. |
|
June 18, 2015, 06:24 PM | #63 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 22, 2004
Posts: 2,018
|
Quote:
The private sale documents are to be kept private, only to be shown to authorities if you need to prove your self free and clear of someone elses misdeed. See Don's post above, its a great example of the benefits of documenting a private sale. It's also a great example of a 4473 bringing the law to an innocent man's door and effectively requiring him to prove as much. Last edited by Dashunde; June 18, 2015 at 10:10 PM. |
|
June 18, 2015, 09:08 PM | #64 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
|
The biggest paper trail is the NRA. How many of you are members? I don't worry about that end of it.
|
June 19, 2015, 04:08 PM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2010
Posts: 271
|
the grand majority of people here in CT who sell firearms privately require you to have a valid pistol permit before they sell a handgun or in some cases a long arm to you. The state laws here full of grey areas especially open carry. Now they require an ammo certificate to purchase ammo (unless you have a ccl, which supercedes all that hassle).
__________________
S&W highway patrolman 28-2/ Springfield mil spec 1911 (semi custom)/ Sig P220 match elite .45 acp/Kimber micro 9 stainless/ Remington 870 tac14/ Taurus pt22/ S&W 629-1 3" .44 mag/ S&W 629 PC V-Comp/ Beretta M9/ Stevens/Savage 311A 12 ga double bbl/ Magnum research Desert Eagle XIX .44 mag/ S&W 460 xvr/ Glock g40 10mm longslide/ H&K usp compact .45 acp/ Ruger SuperBlackhawk Lipsey Edition/ S&W 686+ 3-5-7 talo edition |
June 20, 2015, 02:29 AM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,323
|
With the knowledge that they either don't have or refuse to provide GA id, I would not sell the gun unless they come up with a valid GA drivers license. I understand the pressure when you want to sell something, but guns are a little different even though they shouldn't be. Or, I would simply insist that the gun transfer be handled at the local FFL dealer with all paperwork completed.
Had the whole deal been made without the knowledge, then I would probably feel okay about the transfer/sale. However, at my age, I really prefer seeing some sort of ID with a gun transaction. If I had to guess, they are probably GA residents or are technically a GA resident but have not gotten a drivers license, and simply don't want any record of them buying the firearm. There are many people like that and you see it on the forums all the time...... ask for ID, forget the sale..... My feeling is that I don't need the sale bad enough to take chances. I would rather landfill the gun. That of course is a bit ridiculous as you can just find another buyer but may end of selling the gun for less. If I were selling one of my guns locally and advertising, I would simply make the ID a condition of the sale. IF people have a problem with that, then they won't contact you to purchase. Last edited by 22-rimfire; June 20, 2015 at 02:48 AM. |
June 20, 2015, 04:19 AM | #67 | |
Staff
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
|
Quote:
CT also has its own form that asks all the same questions that are on the 4473 (DPS-67-C http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/sl...s/dps-67-c.pdf ), and then they have a four-part form that includes complete personal information (except social security number) and signatures for both buyer and seller. One copy stays with the seller, one goes to the buyer, the third goes to the State Police, and the fourth goes to the police department in the buyer's city of residence. (DPS-3-C http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/sl...ms/dps-3-c.pdf ). Since the post-Sandy Hook law making bloodbath, Connecticut requires either a pistol permit or a "certificate of eligibility to purchase ammunition" just to buy ammo -- even .22 rimfire ammo. Almost forgot -- the seller has to call the State Police before any sale and get a transaction authorization number. I grew up in Connecticut. Close to 20 years ago I guy I knew there sold a handgun. He got the required transaction authorization number, but he forget to send in the DPS-3-C form. He told me that months later the State Police came knocking on his door. He had to track down the buyer and get the form filled out and signed after the fact. He was lucky that (a) he found the buyer, and (b) the buyer was a good guy and didn't jam him up by refusing to sign the form. |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|