When the enemy is amongst you

LASur5r · August 9, 2002, 09:04 PM

Here's a real life scenario for you folks.

Recently I was assigned to run some cases through the City Prosecutor's Office. They had bullet proof glass in front of the receptionist and they had to buzz you in and buzz you out, but the buzzer is hidden.

We were deep in conference one day in the senior prosecutor's office when some of the office's goodies had to be moved to another office...the receptionist had asked for some city workers to move the stuff and here came work release guys (about five of them)...these are guys who are assigned various tasks to work in city government and they are hopefully learning a trade, most of them are gang type guys who have learned to work the system).

Only trouble is when I went to go borrow a pen from the receptionist, I looked up at a 3 x 5 picture posted below the window and one of the work release guys matches the guys who has made death threats against one of the city prosecutors and this guy is walking around in the office! He is a felon on the work release gang and one of his past transgressions was that he murdered his girl friend, one of the prosecutors had got him convicted for a long time, he wanted to kill the prosecutor, everyone was supposed to keep an eye out for this man and not let him in the office, but here the receptionist had let him in.

In the early days, the city prosecutors folks did not go packing! After this incident, they all got training and carried issue weapons.

Okay? Now you're in a contained security office, what do you do? You don't know where the buzzer is to let you out of the office and you have a known felon who has made death threats to one of the people in the office.

What do you do? You are not armed.

PATH · August 10, 2002, 12:14 AM

Get the mace or pepper spray. Barring that I'd have to pull the golf club or baseball bat out of the office.

KSFreeman · August 10, 2002, 10:19 AM

Hi, former prosecutor here. Had it happen to us. He did not get that far. If you are not armed and alert, you have already lost that fight. "Can't happen here." Bet your life! "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen." Yeah, but I want to fight back and maybe it won't.

What do I do? Call for help (obviously). The radio (phone) is always the biggest gun.

C.R.Sam · August 10, 2002, 12:21 PM

All too often...
Security...
Isn't.

Yeah, as soon as recognized;
call for help.

Sam

Blackhawk · August 10, 2002, 10:51 PM

The receptionist didn't let "him" in. She didn't even see "him". She let a work party of 5 in, and probably didn't even look at anybody except the person who headed up the party and asked to be let in.

After incident action item: Train anybody who controls the buzzer to specifically look at and log in every person wanting to enter.

If that's already the policy, fire the receptionist.

LASur5r · August 13, 2002, 07:18 PM

You guys are right.

All too often, though, in the government, we place underpaid, improperly trained individuals in critical positions. Took the head prosecutor over a year of documentation, etc., to get this receptionist air head "transferred" to another division. Couldn't get the receptionist fired....protected class.

Meanwhile, we had a hot line buzzer installed to alert the police folks who are 1/2 a block away.

I had snuck away to a conference room and dropped a dime on the individual who promised "revenge" on the prosecutor. He is now in a "mental " institution for about 20 years for a few past misdeeds. Just for all of you folks, he was caught in the office by the responding "cavalry." This BG had a small revolver tucked into his boot....."violation" of parole, right?

foghornl · August 14, 2002, 08:49 AM

Glad all the good guys came through un-scathed, but it begs another question.....
How did the BG get "a small revolver in his boot" ? ? ? ? Wasn't he already in the lock-up ? ? ?

LBC · August 16, 2002, 07:38 PM

To answer your question, call on your phone or radio for armed backup IMMEDIATELY. Observe suspect. When the calvary arrives, detain and question.

Here's another one for you: a few days ago at a nearby court house, a fellow makes his way through the metal detector with a 3" paring knife. Sits in the back of the court room fondling the knife and "observing." Hmmm. 6'4", 300 lbs. Turns out he is awaiting trial in Sept. for threatening a church worker with a 7" steak knife. Turns out PD was on the way -- they had a report of a man carving his initials into some wet cement. Now comes the kicker -- this "gentleman" is removed from the court room, questioned outside, given his knife back. It was under 4", the legal limit. So, what's the problem?

Oh, judge ordered sheriffs to fine-tune the detectors later that day.

LASur5r · August 16, 2002, 07:49 PM

Foghorn,
In our city, we see a lot of these folks unsupervised wandering all over city hall and other city buildings. They go from building to building and other than court, they have a lot of "contact" with the people in the public, besides city employees.

It's just another example of our government using "cheap" labor. Some of these guys are put on a city salary who then bills the feds for some government subsidized program, meanwhile they are not trained in job skills, etc...

One day, I had to go to court to testify and we all waited in a long line to go through the metal detectors, although folks who carry badges can go right on in. Some of the "gang" types while in line handed knives, guns, etc.., to several "girls" who carried their "babies" and all these weapons were put in the carriers or strollers until they came out to reclaim their weapon of choice.

August 9, 2002, 09:04 PM	#1
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	When the enemy is amongst you Here's a real life scenario for you folks. Recently I was assigned to run some cases through the City Prosecutor's Office. They had bullet proof glass in front of the receptionist and they had to buzz you in and buzz you out, but the buzzer is hidden. We were deep in conference one day in the senior prosecutor's office when some of the office's goodies had to be moved to another office...the receptionist had asked for some city workers to move the stuff and here came work release guys (about five of them)...these are guys who are assigned various tasks to work in city government and they are hopefully learning a trade, most of them are gang type guys who have learned to work the system). Only trouble is when I went to go borrow a pen from the receptionist, I looked up at a 3 x 5 picture posted below the window and one of the work release guys matches the guys who has made death threats against one of the city prosecutors and this guy is walking around in the office! He is a felon on the work release gang and one of his past transgressions was that he murdered his girl friend, one of the prosecutors had got him convicted for a long time, he wanted to kill the prosecutor, everyone was supposed to keep an eye out for this man and not let him in the office, but here the receptionist had let him in. In the early days, the city prosecutors folks did not go packing! After this incident, they all got training and carried issue weapons. Okay? Now you're in a contained security office, what do you do? You don't know where the buzzer is to let you out of the office and you have a known felon who has made death threats to one of the people in the office. What do you do? You are not armed.

August 10, 2002, 12:14 AM	#2
PATH Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 1999 Location: Rockland, NY Posts: 1,489	Get the mace or pepper spray. Barring that I'd have to pull the golf club or baseball bat out of the office. __________________ For sure it is an evil spite, and breaking to the heart, For Irishmen to watch a fight and not be taking part. -Robert Service 'How MacPherson Held The Floor'

August 10, 2002, 10:19 AM	#3
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Hi, former prosecutor here. Had it happen to us. He did not get that far. If you are not armed and alert, you have already lost that fight. "Can't happen here." Bet your life! "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen." Yeah, but I want to fight back and maybe it won't. What do I do? Call for help (obviously). The radio (phone) is always the biggest gun. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

August 13, 2002, 07:18 PM	#6
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Right, guys, You guys are right. All too often, though, in the government, we place underpaid, improperly trained individuals in critical positions. Took the head prosecutor over a year of documentation, etc., to get this receptionist air head "transferred" to another division. Couldn't get the receptionist fired....protected class. Meanwhile, we had a hot line buzzer installed to alert the police folks who are 1/2 a block away. I had snuck away to a conference room and dropped a dime on the individual who promised "revenge" on the prosecutor. He is now in a "mental " institution for about 20 years for a few past misdeeds. Just for all of you folks, he was caught in the office by the responding "cavalry." This BG had a small revolver tucked into his boot....."violation" of parole, right?

August 16, 2002, 07:49 PM	#9
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Revolver in boot Foghorn, In our city, we see a lot of these folks unsupervised wandering all over city hall and other city buildings. They go from building to building and other than court, they have a lot of "contact" with the people in the public, besides city employees. It's just another example of our government using "cheap" labor. Some of these guys are put on a city salary who then bills the feds for some government subsidized program, meanwhile they are not trained in job skills, etc... One day, I had to go to court to testify and we all waited in a long line to go through the metal detectors, although folks who carry badges can go right on in. Some of the "gang" types while in line handed knives, guns, etc.., to several "girls" who carried their "babies" and all these weapons were put in the carriers or strollers until they came out to reclaim their weapon of choice.

August 10, 2002, 12:21 PM	#4
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	All too often... Security... Isn't. Yeah, as soon as recognized; call for help. Sam

August 10, 2002, 10:51 PM	#5
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	The receptionist didn't let "him" in. She didn't even see "him". She let a work party of 5 in, and probably didn't even look at anybody except the person who headed up the party and asked to be let in. After incident action item: Train anybody who controls the buzzer to specifically look at and log in every person wanting to enter. If that's already the policy, fire the receptionist.

August 14, 2002, 08:49 AM	#7
foghornl Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,354	Glad all the good guys came through un-scathed, but it begs another question..... How did the BG get "a small revolver in his boot" ? ? ? ? Wasn't he already in the lock-up ? ? ?

August 16, 2002, 07:38 PM	#8
LBC Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2001 Posts: 385	To answer your question, call on your phone or radio for armed backup IMMEDIATELY. Observe suspect. When the calvary arrives, detain and question. Here's another one for you: a few days ago at a nearby court house, a fellow makes his way through the metal detector with a 3" paring knife. Sits in the back of the court room fondling the knife and "observing." Hmmm. 6'4", 300 lbs. Turns out he is awaiting trial in Sept. for threatening a church worker with a 7" steak knife. Turns out PD was on the way -- they had a report of a man carving his initials into some wet cement. Now comes the kicker -- this "gentleman" is removed from the court room, questioned outside, given his knife back. It was under 4", the legal limit. So, what's the problem? Oh, judge ordered sheriffs to fine-tune the detectors later that day.