22 Ppc

rjoy · November 8, 2002, 05:47 PM

My neighbor and I were talking in the yard today and he mentioned that he had a nice Sako rifle chambered for the 22 PPC. He said that the rifle was unbelievably accurate but said that he had shot up all his ammo and is unable to find more. My mind immediately went to handloading. The problem is he only has about 30 empty cases left to work with. Can 22 PPC brass be bought anymore? If not, or it is rare, how hard would it be to resize 7.62 X 39 brass to 22 PPC? I see that Lee makes an inexpensive die in this caliber (like $20) compared to RCBS at over a C note. I have used Lee dies in a couple of pistol calibers and have no complaints about them.

If anyone out there has any input on how I can get some ammo for him (I know it's not my problem but I'd like to work up loads for him) I'd appreciate any info you might have. I'd also be interested in any component suggestions you might offer. I know virtually nothing about this caliber.

Thanks

Bob

Steven Mace · November 8, 2002, 06:31 PM

Bob, The Reload Bench has information on the .22 PPC caliber that might be useful to you. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace

rick_reno · November 8, 2002, 08:55 PM

Huntingtons has .22 PPC brass (SAKO) for $1.25 each. He lists the forming dies for going from 7.62X39 to 22 PPC at over $300 - if you can get 6mm PPC brass you can get a set of forming dies for about $65. When I shot 6mm PPC and brass was hard to get, there were some shooters trying the formed brass - accuracy suffered. It's been about 20 years since I shot one of these guns but I recall the flash hole on the Sako/Norma brass is small - and the stuff formed from 7.62X39 wasn't and that was thought to be impacting accuracy. These guns are very accurate, with the 6mm variety having an advantage in bullet wt. for longer shots.

I think you can find brass for it without rolling your own.

Hungingtons web site is http://www.huntingtons.com/index.html

bk40 · November 8, 2002, 10:28 PM

Sinclair has Lapua .220 Russian brass on sale thru 1/15 at $44.80 per 100 (I picked up a couple of boxes today myself

). This is the brass that BR shooters use in their 6 PPC rifles. It works just fine in 22PPC... just run in thru the FL die and load.

rjoy · November 10, 2002, 05:43 PM

BK 40:

Thanks for the info. I have never attempted anything like this before. Let's say I get the .220 R cases. Will it only need to run through the full length sizer and be ready to go? Does it need to be trimmed? Will the neck thickness need to be addressed? I would really like to help this guy out but don't want to get into trouble ballistically? Are there any pitfalls to look out for?

Any pet loads for 50-55 grain bullets you would like to recommend? I was looking up some reloading data yesterday and I saw some that had 35 g bullets leaving the muzzle upwards of 4600 fps. That's gotta be rough on the barrel I would think.

Bob

bk40 · November 12, 2002, 12:40 AM

Hi rjoy,

Will it only need to run through the full length sizer and be ready to go?

Yep.

Does it need to be trimmed?

I wouldn't trim until I had fire-formed the brass.

Will the neck thickness need to be addressed?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the Sako's chamber. I've noticed Redding sells dies for 22PPC USA and 22PPC Sako... I don't know what the difference between the USA & Sako is - call the guys at Sinclair or perhaps Sierra, they should be able to help on this.

Any pet loads for 50-55 grain bullets you would like to recommend?

My favorite powders are H322 & V-V N133. I shoot 52gr Berger's at close to max loadings... I'd feel better not given my data.

rjoy · November 14, 2002, 08:35 PM

BK 40:

Thanks again for your help. I have an email off to Sinclair to ask about the USA vs Sako die sets. Awaiting an answer. The .220 Russian brass seems like a real good buy compared to buying .22 PPC brass at close to 3 times the price.

Another question if I may:
I also saw a flash hole enlarger for .22 PPC. I gathered that the flash holes in .22 PPC are .060". Sinclair sells a reamer that enlarges the flash hole to .0625". Do the .220 Russian cases have the .060" flash hole or are they .0625"? Apparently, modern decappers are .0625" diameter and won't fit in .22 PPC cases.

Thanks again.

Bob

bfoster · November 14, 2002, 09:26 PM

rjoy,

You can ream the flash holes out to fit the decapping pin of the die you purchase, or you can sand/stone/grind the decapping pin down to freely enter the flash holes of 220 Russian brass. I chose the later course and have had no problems. Ditto the flash hole deburring tool, though this brass usually has really minimal burrs.

Bob

Bogie · November 15, 2002, 11:47 AM

The best thing to do is call Sinclair, talk to Geoff Esterline or Steve Theye, and tell 'em what you've got, and ask what you need. I'd go with Redding dies myself, or Wilson hand dies.

Either Norma or Lapua .220 Russian brass should work - they may know better tho... If it is the factory barrel, you probably won't have to neck turn.

FWIW, I shoot 6PPC and a 0.070" short .22PPC.

Where are y'all? There may be a benchrest range nearby.

I'd also check out www.benchrest.com.

rjoy · November 15, 2002, 04:19 PM

Bogey:

I'm in western NY, near Buffalo. I haven't been into BR shooting and I am trying to help out my neighbor. I don't believe he's a BR shooter either and I have no idea why he has this caliber. He has no ammo and I am trying to get him shooting it again.

What's a .070" short .22 PPC?

I'm tring to find out the difference between .22 PPC USA and a .22PPC Sako. He has a Sako rifle but what is it chambered for???

Thanks all.

Bob

BTW, I find a wealth of information on this site and ones like it.

bfoster · November 15, 2002, 07:02 PM

The simplest sure way to tell the difference is to take a chamber cast, or pin gauge the neck diameter of the chamber. The 22 PPC USA case has a maximum neck diameter of 0.246", the chamber will be at least 0.2465". The Sako, if original, is almost certainly cut for this cartridge. The 22 PPC is not really standardized to the extent that the 22 PPC USA is. The neck diameter of the chamber is usually cut smaller in the 22 PPC to allow for a good fit after the 220 Russian cases have been neck turned- 0.242" or a bit less is typical.

Bob

rjoy · November 16, 2002, 06:55 PM

bfoster:

I just received an email back from Sinclair. They tell me that either die set will work for this caliber, which supports what you just said. I have never resized from one caliber to another. Is the .220 Russian very much different from the .22 PPC? I'm under the impression that you just run the .220 brass through the PPC die and that's it. Am I wrong on this? Will the length be right after resizing or will it need to be trimmed? Another poster said that you shouldn't trim the length until you have fire formed the brass. Seems logical to me. Any other "little" things I need to know here before I get started? I thought I saw a post that said it likes .224 dia bullets. Is that what I want? How about powder selection for this load with 50-55 gr bullets?

Thanks.

Bob

bfoster · November 17, 2002, 08:10 AM

rjoy,

The 220 Russian is the parent case for the 22 PPC and 22 PPC USA. When 220 Russian brass is fired in a 22 PPC chamber you fireform the brass to the 22 PPC or 22 PPC USA configuration.

Over the years I've known several handloaders that have made 22 PPC brass from 7.62X39. It can be done, but I have never seen results that are equal to the potential of most rifles chambered for this cartridge, including Ruger rifles, let alone Sakos or true benchrest rifles. The Lapua brass is simply made to the highest quality standards in the world, period.

You might be able to find PPC brass, but it will be at least as expensive as the 220 Russian brass, and of somewhat lower quality. The reason that it is hard to find is that benchrest shooters, the biggest segment of the market for this product, demand the best and almost invariably start with 220 Russian.

I don't mess around with neck sizing dies not of the bushing type when loading this cartridge. If you want to use 7/8-14 dies I suggest that you go with a Redding full length die set ($44 from Sinclair) plus a bushing type neck sizing die $30+$9.60 from the same source.

best wishes,

Bob

Bogie · November 18, 2002, 11:17 AM

The .22PPC is kinda like a .220 Russian Ackley. The first time you fire the brass, jam the bullet hard in the lands, and it'll blow out the case quite nicely.

My 0.070" short has a chamber that's shorter than the "standard," in theory being a little more efficient on the powder. 50.5 clicks of my 8208 runs at 3590fps with 52 grain Bart's bullets.

November 8, 2002, 05:47 PM	#1
rjoy Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 19	22 Ppc My neighbor and I were talking in the yard today and he mentioned that he had a nice Sako rifle chambered for the 22 PPC. He said that the rifle was unbelievably accurate but said that he had shot up all his ammo and is unable to find more. My mind immediately went to handloading. The problem is he only has about 30 empty cases left to work with. Can 22 PPC brass be bought anymore? If not, or it is rare, how hard would it be to resize 7.62 X 39 brass to 22 PPC? I see that Lee makes an inexpensive die in this caliber (like $20) compared to RCBS at over a C note. I have used Lee dies in a couple of pistol calibers and have no complaints about them. If anyone out there has any input on how I can get some ammo for him (I know it's not my problem but I'd like to work up loads for him) I'd appreciate any info you might have. I'd also be interested in any component suggestions you might offer. I know virtually nothing about this caliber. Thanks Bob

November 8, 2002, 06:31 PM	#2
Steven Mace Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1999 Location: Clifton, Colorado USA Posts: 724	.22 PPC Bob, The Reload Bench has information on the .22 PPC caliber that might be useful to you. Hope this helps! Steve Mace __________________ After today, its all historical

November 8, 2002, 08:55 PM	#3
rick_reno Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 917	22 ppc Huntingtons has .22 PPC brass (SAKO) for $1.25 each. He lists the forming dies for going from 7.62X39 to 22 PPC at over $300 - if you can get 6mm PPC brass you can get a set of forming dies for about $65. When I shot 6mm PPC and brass was hard to get, there were some shooters trying the formed brass - accuracy suffered. It's been about 20 years since I shot one of these guns but I recall the flash hole on the Sako/Norma brass is small - and the stuff formed from 7.62X39 wasn't and that was thought to be impacting accuracy. These guns are very accurate, with the 6mm variety having an advantage in bullet wt. for longer shots. I think you can find brass for it without rolling your own. Hungingtons web site is http://www.huntingtons.com/index.html

November 10, 2002, 05:43 PM	#5
rjoy Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 19	22 PPC BK 40: Thanks for the info. I have never attempted anything like this before. Let's say I get the .220 R cases. Will it only need to run through the full length sizer and be ready to go? Does it need to be trimmed? Will the neck thickness need to be addressed? I would really like to help this guy out but don't want to get into trouble ballistically? Are there any pitfalls to look out for? Any pet loads for 50-55 grain bullets you would like to recommend? I was looking up some reloading data yesterday and I saw some that had 35 g bullets leaving the muzzle upwards of 4600 fps. That's gotta be rough on the barrel I would think. Bob

November 14, 2002, 08:35 PM	#7
rjoy Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 19	3260 BK 40: Thanks again for your help. I have an email off to Sinclair to ask about the USA vs Sako die sets. Awaiting an answer. The .220 Russian brass seems like a real good buy compared to buying .22 PPC brass at close to 3 times the price. Another question if I may: I also saw a flash hole enlarger for .22 PPC. I gathered that the flash holes in .22 PPC are .060". Sinclair sells a reamer that enlarges the flash hole to .0625". Do the .220 Russian cases have the .060" flash hole or are they .0625"? Apparently, modern decappers are .0625" diameter and won't fit in .22 PPC cases. Thanks again. Bob

November 8, 2002, 10:28 PM	#4
bk40 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 1999 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,004	Sinclair has Lapua .220 Russian brass on sale thru 1/15 at $44.80 per 100 (I picked up a couple of boxes today myself ). This is the brass that BR shooters use in their 6 PPC rifles. It works just fine in 22PPC... just run in thru the FL die and load.

November 12, 2002, 12:40 AM	#6
bk40 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 1999 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,004	Hi rjoy, Will it only need to run through the full length sizer and be ready to go? Yep. Does it need to be trimmed? I wouldn't trim until I had fire-formed the brass. Will the neck thickness need to be addressed? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the Sako's chamber. I've noticed Redding sells dies for 22PPC USA and 22PPC Sako... I don't know what the difference between the USA & Sako is - call the guys at Sinclair or perhaps Sierra, they should be able to help on this. Any pet loads for 50-55 grain bullets you would like to recommend? My favorite powders are H322 & V-V N133. I shoot 52gr Berger's at close to max loadings... I'd feel better not given my data.

November 14, 2002, 09:26 PM	#8
bfoster Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA Posts: 297	rjoy, You can ream the flash holes out to fit the decapping pin of the die you purchase, or you can sand/stone/grind the decapping pin down to freely enter the flash holes of 220 Russian brass. I chose the later course and have had no problems. Ditto the flash hole deburring tool, though this brass usually has really minimal burrs. Bob

November 15, 2002, 11:47 AM	#9
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	The best thing to do is call Sinclair, talk to Geoff Esterline or Steve Theye, and tell 'em what you've got, and ask what you need. I'd go with Redding dies myself, or Wilson hand dies. Either Norma or Lapua .220 Russian brass should work - they may know better tho... If it is the factory barrel, you probably won't have to neck turn. FWIW, I shoot 6PPC and a 0.070" short .22PPC. Where are y'all? There may be a benchrest range nearby. I'd also check out www.benchrest.com. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

November 15, 2002, 04:19 PM	#10
rjoy Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 19	Bogey: I'm in western NY, near Buffalo. I haven't been into BR shooting and I am trying to help out my neighbor. I don't believe he's a BR shooter either and I have no idea why he has this caliber. He has no ammo and I am trying to get him shooting it again. What's a .070" short .22 PPC? I'm tring to find out the difference between .22 PPC USA and a .22PPC Sako. He has a Sako rifle but what is it chambered for??? Thanks all. Bob BTW, I find a wealth of information on this site and ones like it.

November 15, 2002, 07:02 PM	#11
bfoster Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA Posts: 297	The simplest sure way to tell the difference is to take a chamber cast, or pin gauge the neck diameter of the chamber. The 22 PPC USA case has a maximum neck diameter of 0.246", the chamber will be at least 0.2465". The Sako, if original, is almost certainly cut for this cartridge. The 22 PPC is not really standardized to the extent that the 22 PPC USA is. The neck diameter of the chamber is usually cut smaller in the 22 PPC to allow for a good fit after the 220 Russian cases have been neck turned- 0.242" or a bit less is typical. Bob

November 16, 2002, 06:55 PM	#12
rjoy Member Join Date: July 31, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 19	bfoster: I just received an email back from Sinclair. They tell me that either die set will work for this caliber, which supports what you just said. I have never resized from one caliber to another. Is the .220 Russian very much different from the .22 PPC? I'm under the impression that you just run the .220 brass through the PPC die and that's it. Am I wrong on this? Will the length be right after resizing or will it need to be trimmed? Another poster said that you shouldn't trim the length until you have fire formed the brass. Seems logical to me. Any other "little" things I need to know here before I get started? I thought I saw a post that said it likes .224 dia bullets. Is that what I want? How about powder selection for this load with 50-55 gr bullets? Thanks. Bob

November 17, 2002, 08:10 AM	#13
bfoster Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA Posts: 297	rjoy, The 220 Russian is the parent case for the 22 PPC and 22 PPC USA. When 220 Russian brass is fired in a 22 PPC chamber you fireform the brass to the 22 PPC or 22 PPC USA configuration. Over the years I've known several handloaders that have made 22 PPC brass from 7.62X39. It can be done, but I have never seen results that are equal to the potential of most rifles chambered for this cartridge, including Ruger rifles, let alone Sakos or true benchrest rifles. The Lapua brass is simply made to the highest quality standards in the world, period. You might be able to find PPC brass, but it will be at least as expensive as the 220 Russian brass, and of somewhat lower quality. The reason that it is hard to find is that benchrest shooters, the biggest segment of the market for this product, demand the best and almost invariably start with 220 Russian. I don't mess around with neck sizing dies not of the bushing type when loading this cartridge. If you want to use 7/8-14 dies I suggest that you go with a Redding full length die set ($44 from Sinclair) plus a bushing type neck sizing die $30+$9.60 from the same source. best wishes, Bob

November 18, 2002, 11:17 AM	#14
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	The .22PPC is kinda like a .220 Russian Ackley. The first time you fire the brass, jam the bullet hard in the lands, and it'll blow out the case quite nicely. My 0.070" short has a chamber that's shorter than the "standard," in theory being a little more efficient on the powder. 50.5 clicks of my 8208 runs at 3590fps with 52 grain Bart's bullets. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!