The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 17, 2012, 09:32 AM   #1
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Underwood Ammo 9x18 Mak 95gr XTP Ammo Review



I got some 9x18 Mak ammo from Underwood Ammo recently and put it through a little T&E and it seems to be pretty good stuff. It's loaded with the 95gr Hornady XTP bullet and the advertised velocity is 1150fps.

Before I go on, let's address the pressure issue. There were several Russian 9x18 rounds developed over the years of various weights and pressures, most ranged between 20,000 and 24,000 PSI. The Czechs designed a 69gr load in the early 1980s that traveled at 1350fps out of their CZ 82s that had a chamber pressure of 24,650 PSI. The ammo being reviewed today has a chamber pressure of 24,500 so it's actually slightly under what the Czechs used as their service round for the last few years that the gun was in service. After firing this ammo, I didn't see any evidence of stressed cases (bulges, cracks, ect...). As to whether other 9x18 guns can run this ammo as effectively and safely, I can't say for certain but most probably can since Russian put out a couple loads around 24,000 PSI and they were used by seveal nations in their guns.

Moving on.... With 9x18 guns, people often debate whether one should use JHPs or FMJs for defensive purposes. With that in mind, the XTP bullet may be the ideal compromise. XTPs are known for relatively deep penetration due to relatively small expansion between 1.25-1.50x the original diameter once it meets soft tissue.

Here's a video with of me running some rounds through my CZ, a quick discussion of the rounds charachteristics, and a chronograph test comparing the Underwood load with the factory Hornady load:

Underwood 9x18 Mak HD Review Video Link

Chrono numbers:

Underwood 9x18 95gr XTP: 1198fps, 303 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle
Hornady 9x18 95gt XTP: 999fps, 210 ft/lbs energy at the muzzle

This round should be availible shortly on the Underwood site for those looking to pick some up. 

__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 17, 2012, 10:19 AM   #2
RedBowTies88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Location: 609 NJ
Posts: 705
Sounds like I've got a new carry load. Very Impressive. I'm curious what it would chrono out of my little p-64.
__________________
"...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)
RedBowTies88 is offline  
Old September 17, 2012, 03:46 PM   #3
KevK.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2012
Posts: 137
Now that's pretty good, and a bit cheaper than buying Buffalo Bore.

The Underwood 9mm Mak seems to edge out most .38 special +P numbers and creeps towards standard pressure regular 9mm.


Did you put a bigger recoil spring in your CZ82? Or still have the factory one installed? How is the recoil?
__________________
CZ82, S&W Mod. 65 .357, Marlin 22mn (22WMR), Mossberg 500.
KevK. is offline  
Old September 17, 2012, 05:37 PM   #4
sgms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2010
Location: Arizona or Ohio depending
Posts: 1,021
Interesting, looks like time for a little new ammo testing.
sgms is offline  
Old September 17, 2012, 09:06 PM   #5
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,306
So another over pressure round using the +P moniker for advertising hype hits the market! If I were to carry something as big as my CZ82 I could carry a double stack 9MM rated for 9MM+P. A round that actually exists on the SAAMI standard pressure charts!
This may be OK in the CZ82 according to your supposed pressure data, but how about Maks and PA62 pistols. Again the +P rating is being used for advertising aimed at uninformed people who think they are buying some "wonder round" that will stop any threat without regard to shot placement.
How about these companies putting a warning label on the box stating "This ammunition is loaded to higher pressure than SAAMI standards for this round" Wouldn't that be a more honest approach?
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

Last edited by Cheapshooter; September 17, 2012 at 09:14 PM.
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old September 18, 2012, 07:59 AM   #6
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Quote:
This may be OK in the CZ82 according to your supposed pressure data, but how about Maks and PA62 pistols
That's why I stated:

Quote:
As to whether other 9x18 guns can run this ammo as effectively and safely, I can't say for certain
Here's some numbers fired out of the CZ 82 from commercial ammo companies:

Silver Bear 94gr HP: 1108fps, 256ft/lbs of energy
Brown Bear 94gr FMJ: 1119fps, 261ft/lbs of energy

Now, I run that ammo in all my Mak guns, including the small P64 with 0 issues. The BB is averaging only 80fps less than the Underwood so the pressure can't be that far off.


Quote:
How about these companies putting a warning label on the box stating "This ammunition is loaded to higher pressure than SAAMI standards for this round" Wouldn't that be a more honest approach?
Yes, it would. But, they do make their pressures readily availible and their advertised velocities are right on the box so it's not a secret either...
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 19, 2012, 03:15 PM   #7
chupps
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2005
Posts: 368
Any data on penetration?
chupps is offline  
Old September 19, 2012, 03:55 PM   #8
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Sorry but no. I don't have any gel to perform tests on. Plus it's too freaking hot where I live anyway; it'd probably melt!

Likely it would lose some penetration over the hornady load though.
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 20, 2012, 08:05 PM   #9
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,137
Quote:
So another over pressure round using the +P moniker for advertising hype hits the market!
Who knows? When I go to the SAAMI site, I cannot find any pressure info for the 9x18 and Wikipedia confirms this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9718mm_Makarov

Quote:
How about these companies putting a warning label on the box stating "This ammunition is loaded to higher pressure than SAAMI standards for this round"
Underwood doesn't have their "+P" 9mm Mak listing at their site yet. I do know that for some of their 10mm loads, they specifically warn against use in Colt Delta Elite and other 1911s without a ramped barrel.

Added: I do see that Underwood lists the 95 gr. XTP bullet with a velocity of 1150 fps but they do not list it as "+P" on their site. I'm not sure what this means.

Last edited by KyJim; September 20, 2012 at 08:14 PM.
KyJim is offline  
Old September 21, 2012, 08:36 AM   #10
garryc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2005
Posts: 2,536
Everything is the CZ82, what about my Polish P64? The Brown Bear loads are a bit snappy in a small gun like the P64, what would these be like?
garryc is offline  
Old September 21, 2012, 11:06 AM   #11
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
I have a P64 as well but I was just trying to isolate the variables (gun) as much as possible when trying out this new load. I haven't run any through the P-64 yet but that gun has a much sharper recoil impulse than the CZ so I'm sure it would have some snap to it but I can't say for sure.......
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 21, 2012, 01:15 PM   #12
qwiksdraw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2012
Posts: 534
Bottom line: is this ammo safe to shoot in an IJ-70 Russian Commercial 9X18 model?
qwiksdraw is offline  
Old September 21, 2012, 03:06 PM   #13
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
No idea. Check and see if that gun can run the SP-7 round. It's the hottest military produced 9x18 I know of and the chamber pressures of that surpass the Underwood.

You can also email Kevin over at underwood ([email protected]) and he'll let you know. He's usually pretty quick with emails.
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 22, 2012, 03:43 PM   #14
BrittB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 554
I wonder how it would perform in my PA-63?
BrittB is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 03:20 AM   #15
RedBowTies88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Location: 609 NJ
Posts: 705
ive seen video of a pa-63 fireing parabellum. im sure it could handle this
__________________
"...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 21. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)
RedBowTies88 is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 02:29 PM   #16
marklmurray
Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2010
Posts: 57
Penetration?

I'd really, really like to see some Ballistic Gel tests of this load. I just watched a test of the Hornady XTP 95gr here and the expansion and penetration were terrific, so I was planning on picking some up for my CZ82 and/or P64.

If the penetration is as good or better than the Hornady, then this will be a fabulous low cost alternative. From the Hornady test, it looked like the bullet was getting full expansion so it may well be that the increase in velocity won't negatively affect penetration (this is mostly just me justifying my wishful thinking, though).

Last edited by marklmurray; September 23, 2012 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Fixed link - software overly helpful with the 'http://' part
marklmurray is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 03:40 PM   #17
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Quote:
I'd really, really like to see some Ballistic Gel tests of this load. I just watched a test of the Hornady XTP 95gr here and the expansion and penetration were terrific, so I was planning on picking some up for my CZ82 and/or P64.

If the penetration is as good or better than the Hornady, then this will be a fabulous low cost alternative. From the Hornady test, it looked like the bullet was getting full expansion so it may well be that the increase in velocity won't negatively affect penetration (this is mostly just me justifying my wishful thinking, though).
Can you repost that link? It doesn't seem to be working...

Your thinking is probably wishful. The ammo will likely expand more and penetrate less; it's happened in every XTP bullet test I've seen when velocity has been increased. But, you never really know until it's tested....
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 03:57 PM   #18
marklmurray
Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2010
Posts: 57
Quote:
Can you repost that link? It doesn't seem to be working...
Should be fixed, now. Thanks!
marklmurray is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 05:41 PM   #19
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Thanks; that's the best test I've seen yet.
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 07:42 PM   #20
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Good news---I just talked to the guy that did that test (he apparently saw my review and contacted me...). He said he's got a box of the Underwood ammo in question here ordered and he'll post a gel test shortly of it. Giddy up.
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Old September 23, 2012, 08:00 PM   #21
marklmurray
Member
 
Join Date: December 12, 2010
Posts: 57
Awesome! If that one is as good, I may be able to afford to 'stock up'. Thanks for the info!
marklmurray is offline  
Old September 25, 2012, 07:53 PM   #22
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 5,172
That is one serious looking hollow-point cavity.
orionengnr is offline  
Old September 26, 2012, 10:47 AM   #23
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 2,483
Nice review. Thanks
Now I have to go research sp7 and makarov pressure tolerances....

I thought homework was over when you graduated!
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Old October 2, 2012, 11:30 PM   #24
Major Hassle
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 2, 2012
Posts: 1
question, has anyone used this ammo in a PA-63

About two years ago, I picked up a FEG PA-63, reason one, the price was affordable, #2, it fit's the hand nicely, #3, I'm getting old, and that left side thumb rest is a good grip assist, #4, the silver bear 9x18 HP is a 380 on Steroids...#5, a very manageable weapon... has this Underwood ammo really been proven safe in a PA-63?
Major Hassle is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 06:38 AM   #25
Mrgunsngear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 3,415
Tough to say if it's been proven. I was the first one (other than Kevin Underwood) to get a box of it so it's extremely new to the market. I recommend checking if the SP-7 round has been used successfully in your gun; it it has then you're good to go. That rounds been around a lot longer so there's a lot more data on it.
__________________
Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel
Mrgunsngear is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.13439 seconds with 10 queries