How many shots per group for best accuracy assesment? - Page 2

Old Grump · December 23, 2012, 06:21 PM

Depends on the gun and use for it. My 300 Wby gets 3 shot groups and then it will string vertically and to the right a little bit. Not enough to make it unusable but ruins an otherwise good group. My Win 94 and my H&R .308 will shoot 10 shot groups as tight as my 3 shot groups before I get fliers. My M1 Garand I expect the first 20 to be in the same place as the second 20 and the third 20 shots. I adjust for 3 shots out of a cold clean barrel with most of my guns and call it good because in the field chances of more shots than that in quick succession are minimal.

Clark · December 23, 2012, 06:30 PM

I am interested in long range hunting. The first long range is I drive 1,000 miles to get there. In 2011 I practiced and was good enough to take a shot prone at animals at 500 yards, but to iffy at 600 yards. In 2012 I practiced with a different rifle and only was good enough at 400 yards.

So what can a terrible shot, like me, learn from Bart the great shot?
1) I have been undersampling with group size.
2) Early morning is a more likely time to fest in low wind.
3) Tuning the load to the rifle is work I might skip.
4) He is not using ball powder.

Bart B. · December 23, 2012, 08:05 PM

1stmar, I didn't shoot that 250-shot group. I've had it for a year or so since I downloaded it off the 'net and I now forget where it came from. It has about the same shot distribution from center to edge as the half dozen or so test targets from Lake City Arsenal's tests of match ammo at 600 yards. The arsenals best lots of match ammo shoot groups like that one but out to about 6 inches; twice the size as that one. It's the best group I know of that shows where most, some and a few shots go. The American Rifleman magazine had some of Lake City's groups of that ilk in print some years ago.

I don't think heating up a barrel has any effect on its accuracy unless it's not fit to the receiver right or not properly stress relieved. Too many folks have shot 30 rounds 20 to 30 seconds apart and no point of impact change whatsoever. LC match ammo's fired about that same rate for over 200 shots. There's no change to how the barrel vibrates as it gets hot. While the first shot from a cold barrel will typically be the lowest one in a long range group, the rest center about 1/8 to 1/4 MOA above it due to the hotter barrel heating up the powder in the case. If one keeps the loaded round in the barrel for the same length of time after loading it before its fired, there no problems.

December 23, 2012, 06:21 PM	#26
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Depends on the gun and use for it. My 300 Wby gets 3 shot groups and then it will string vertically and to the right a little bit. Not enough to make it unusable but ruins an otherwise good group. My Win 94 and my H&R .308 will shoot 10 shot groups as tight as my 3 shot groups before I get fliers. My M1 Garand I expect the first 20 to be in the same place as the second 20 and the third 20 shots. I adjust for 3 shots out of a cold clean barrel with most of my guns and call it good because in the field chances of more shots than that in quick succession are minimal. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

December 23, 2012, 06:30 PM	#27
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I am interested in long range hunting. The first long range is I drive 1,000 miles to get there. In 2011 I practiced and was good enough to take a shot prone at animals at 500 yards, but to iffy at 600 yards. In 2012 I practiced with a different rifle and only was good enough at 400 yards. So what can a terrible shot, like me, learn from Bart the great shot? 1) I have been undersampling with group size. 2) Early morning is a more likely time to fest in low wind. 3) Tuning the load to the rifle is work I might skip. 4) He is not using ball powder. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

December 23, 2012, 08:05 PM	#28
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	1stmar, I didn't shoot that 250-shot group. I've had it for a year or so since I downloaded it off the 'net and I now forget where it came from. It has about the same shot distribution from center to edge as the half dozen or so test targets from Lake City Arsenal's tests of match ammo at 600 yards. The arsenals best lots of match ammo shoot groups like that one but out to about 6 inches; twice the size as that one. It's the best group I know of that shows where most, some and a few shots go. The American Rifleman magazine had some of Lake City's groups of that ilk in print some years ago. I don't think heating up a barrel has any effect on its accuracy unless it's not fit to the receiver right or not properly stress relieved. Too many folks have shot 30 rounds 20 to 30 seconds apart and no point of impact change whatsoever. LC match ammo's fired about that same rate for over 200 shots. There's no change to how the barrel vibrates as it gets hot. While the first shot from a cold barrel will typically be the lowest one in a long range group, the rest center about 1/8 to 1/4 MOA above it due to the hotter barrel heating up the powder in the case. If one keeps the loaded round in the barrel for the same length of time after loading it before its fired, there no problems. Last edited by Bart B.; December 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM.

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