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February 19, 2012, 09:50 PM | #1 |
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Lying, Stolen Valor and Illegal Weapons Transfers - From the NRA
Here is a curious case of good intentions gone awry.
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/i...138528704.html Several questions come to mind. Foremost: can the NRA be held accountable for transferring a weapon(s) to a felon? Is this a good case for stolen valor act? The argument against Stolen Valor is that the liar gets no benefit (other than a perverted mental high I guess), and therefore it should be free speech. Here through his lies he was given an elk hunt, this is a valuable thing. Thoughts?
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February 19, 2012, 10:02 PM | #2 |
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Truitt may very well be prosecuted for being in possession of a firearm as a felon, but I don't think a DA would find Stolen Valor charges worth pursuing. As far as the NRA, it would need to be proven that they knew Truitt was a felon.
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February 19, 2012, 10:14 PM | #3 |
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I think I remember reading awhile back that the Stolen Valor Act had been ruled unconstitutional.
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February 19, 2012, 10:15 PM | #4 |
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Have we even been in Afghanistan long enough for someone to do 7 tours?
Now that I remember the Navy has a shorter length of time for what comprises a tour, still though, 7 tours - man... time flys. |
February 19, 2012, 10:26 PM | #5 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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February 19, 2012, 10:27 PM | #6 |
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A case is going to the Supreme Court. Some will say that lying is protected speech ( lucky for me!)
But advertisers get sued and fined for false advertising. They cant say beer cures cancer. You also cant bootleg as that violates intellectual property and copyrights. I cant make grips and sell them as Hogues, for example. The case going to the Supreme Court is about a guy claiming to be a marine with the Medal of Honor. Doesn't that infringe on the Marine Corps brand? If I claim to be a lawyer, dentist, or senator I'd be jailed. Why not for the MOH? If they dont uphold it I'll print business cards claiming to be a law clerk at the Supreme Court who graduated 9th from Harvard. |
February 19, 2012, 10:28 PM | #7 |
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Would it actually need to be proven that they knew or proven that they didn't vet Truitt first to see that he wasn't a felon?
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February 20, 2012, 02:36 AM | #8 |
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DNS,
Yes, federal law prohibits the knowing transfer to a prohibited person. The prisecutor must prove knowledge. |
February 20, 2012, 08:17 AM | #9 |
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I say it was careless though. I guess if the law allows them to be careless that is too bad. A law defining how careful one should be is fraught with issues.
In a way they are lucky. The guy clearly has a screw or two loose by all counts. It could have been a lot worse if he had taken it into his head to start shooting people.
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February 20, 2012, 08:28 AM | #10 |
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The way I'm reading the story is that the NRA supplied the rifles to the organization that organized the hunt, and that organization then supplied the rifle to Truitt.
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February 20, 2012, 08:54 AM | #11 |
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I did not get that from the story but it is possible. If that is the case then they are really opening themselves up to a media circus by trusting third parties like that.
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February 20, 2012, 10:39 AM | #12 |
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"Foremost: can the NRA be held accountable for transferring a weapon(s) to a felon?"
I believe the law says, "knows or has reason to know". It does not say that anyone has to make an effort of any sort to discover/research/ask around about a buyer, etc. I have always asked, but nothing keeps a buyer from lying and I have no way of checking their answer. If the feds wanted us to run background checks as private parties they'd let us use the background check system. |
February 20, 2012, 11:55 AM | #13 | |||
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Quote:
If you know it is going to the SCOTUS, which way does it stand as of now? Did a circis court rule it UNconstitutional and the gummint appealed, or did the circus court uphold it and the doofus appealed? [EDIT]Never mind -- I found it. Circuit Court split: http://www.military.com/news/article...valor-act.html Quote:
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February 20, 2012, 12:04 PM | #14 |
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If someone lies their way into a prize worth money, they can and should be prosecuted for fraud.
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February 20, 2012, 12:31 PM | #15 | |
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Given Truitt's story, I would be very curious to see how it was that he qualified for the hunt. If it was based on the claims reported here, red flags and warning lights should have been going off. After all, how many folks would have been special forces, served 7 tours, shot 11 times, and have been taken prisoner and tortured? Either you have the top .000001% of soldiers standing in your presence about whom you had never heard anything previously, or you have a fraud. Extraordingary claims should require extraordinary proof.
He might have gotten away with his scheme had he only claimed to be a typical grunt, maybe wounded in a mortar attack, disabled after a short tour, and sent home. That would not call much attention to him, but no, he had to claim to be a SEAL. Quote:
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February 20, 2012, 01:01 PM | #16 |
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^ At first I wasn't catching on that he was in the Navy. In the Army, tours for Iraq /Afghanistan are 15 months. In the Navy they can be as short as 6 months IIRC.
The main guy who caught on to it was a Marine and probably the Marines are more familiar with the length of a Naval tour of duty. But if someone would have told me they served 7 tours of duty in Afghanistan my first thought would have been "Holy crap, thats over 8½ years!" But as I delved into a little further, Army tours were 12 months before 2007. But anyway, besides the Stolen Valor issue there is the issue of obtaining somethng by fraud. Truitt can probably be hit up for the cost of the hunting trip. On the other hand... this guy is such a mess, he's probably going to end up killing himself. He needs money to get counseling and probably needs anti-depressant meds. Pounding a mentally ill misfit who got chaptered out of the service on a medical doesn't seem worth it... |
February 20, 2012, 01:12 PM | #17 | ||
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How did he make so far without any proof makes one wonder. POW network offers ways of checking people out with their idiotic claims of medals earned for heroism. They should have done that here. The fact that he had to borrow a rifle to hunt elk with tells you right there he most likely was NOT a SEAL. Quote:
I understand that there are people in the world that need this in their life to make it through the day. I guess people lie about all kinds of things on job resumes and college applications. To take from people who risk and sacrifice quite a lot for darned little strikes me as particularly vile. I would submit that everyone really needs to check out anyone who claims any type of military service and is seeking some kind of benefit due to that service. I hope the NRA learned a lesson here.
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February 20, 2012, 01:16 PM | #18 |
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The NRA only donated the rifles to the Hunt for Heroes project. The NRA had no way of knowing how that organization would fail to screen their participants.
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February 20, 2012, 01:32 PM | #19 | |
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Broken mouth, could not ask? Look I am not throwing it all on them. The other organization is culpable; but I think the leaders have a duty to the members to exercise good judgment. So I can't really hold them blameless either.
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February 20, 2012, 02:16 PM | #20 | |
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February 20, 2012, 06:18 PM | #21 |
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And, having just read and posted in this thread, I grabbed a local newspaper so I'd have a crossword puzzle to do while eating lunch today and there as an AP (Associated Press, not Armor Piercing) story about this very issue and the circuit court split.
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February 20, 2012, 06:58 PM | #22 |
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"Look I am not throwing it all on them."
Throwing what on them? You haven't made a case for anything. The NRA acted responsibly and according to the law. I think you're attempting to make something out of absolutely zero. A few years ago I donated money to a gun club in PA for 2 target rifles. You sound as if you expected me to drive up there and make sure the adults were properly supervising the high school students on the team who were using the rifles. That's nuts. John |
February 20, 2012, 08:21 PM | #23 |
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The NRA did exercise good judgement.
I don't think it's incumbent on a charitable giver to delve into every aspect of a beneficiary organization. There would be no end to it... And just my personal opinion, but, if the NRA had said "we'll donate some rifles for the hunt, but we want to audit all your processes, look at your by-laws, see what checks and balances you have, and we want to have our auditor go over your books." I'd say, "thanks but you can keep your rifles." Before this incident there was nothing to indicate that the Hunt for Heroes project had any issues. I'm sure they will amend their selection process, who knows - maybe people are going to have to show a DD214 from now on... but just looking at the organization, they seem like some people who are trying to do something worthwhile. I can't see where the NRA should have second-guessed them. |
February 20, 2012, 10:48 PM | #24 |
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Here's the passage that makes me think that NRA simply supplied the rifle and the organization running the hunt actually gave it to this clown:
"Truitt was given a rifle during the hunting trip. A sheriff's office spokesman said they have learned the rifle has been returned to the National Rifle Association. A group affiliated with the NRA helps with the Hunt for Heroes project." Note that it says DURING the hunting trip. Also note the last sentence. That makes it sound as if one of the Friends of the NRA groups or perhaps the state rifle association is the actual group that supplied the rifle, not the NRA.
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February 20, 2012, 10:59 PM | #25 | |
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