Transportation of firearms

NateKirk · May 29, 2016, 04:53 PM

So I'm going on a road trip later this summer and I'll be taking with me my Sig P238 for CC and possibly my Remington 870. I'm from Michigan and I've looked up what states I can still carry in with my Michigan CPL, but I am concerned with transporting the shotgun.

The obvious answer to the problem is keeping it stored in a locked container in the trunk away from the ammo, however I have to travel with the rear seats down in the car for space, making the trunk accessible from the main cabin/ passenger area. This is also a problem for when I have to store my pistol in less accommodating states.

Is there any reason to be concerned or am I simply overthinking things? I always try to do things in the most legal way possible, so some insight is appreciated.

If it helps, I'll be traveling in the west half of the US, including California.

FITASC · May 29, 2016, 07:09 PM

I wouldn't be too concerned as I am doing that now. I have mine in a backpack in the very back.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 29, 2016, 07:24 PM

The basic requirement of the federal Firearms Owners Protective Act (FOPA) is that the firearm(s) **OR** ammunition must be locked in the truck. If the vehicle has no trunk, the firearm(s) **OR** ammunition must be in a locked case.

I stressed the "or" part because when New Jersey reproduced the FOPA language on their state police web site, they changed that "or" to "and." Other states may have done the same, so prudence would seem to call for locking the gun(s) and keeping the ammo in a separate, locked container. That's all the law requires -- it can be a cheap Wal-Mart padlock on a cheap Wal-Mart toolbox.

The thing to be most concerned about (IMHO) is stopping or taking side trips in states where you aren't legal to even possess a firearm -- states such as New York and New Jersey are known for jacking people up over firearms possession. The FOPA applies when traveling "through" a state, not for making that state a destination.

reinert · May 30, 2016, 06:55 PM

You might want to check this out; updated to current regs. in all 50 states.

www.gunlawguide.com

Coyote Blue · May 30, 2016, 11:14 PM

And this site can also be quite helpful:

www.handgunlaw.us

g.willikers · May 31, 2016, 09:10 AM

Since California is on your agenda, also check with http://www.calguns.net/

Lohman446 · May 31, 2016, 09:36 AM

This references the federal law that governs interstate transport of firearms where your destination allows that firearm but your "pass-through" travels may not. Be aware that transporting under federal law requires minimal and necessary stops only (IE fuel) to the best of my knowledge.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf

As with all things I am not qualified to give legal advice and you should seek qualified and competent advice on the subject.

tirod · May 31, 2016, 11:05 AM

Reciprocity under CA CCW is a concern.

The real issue is that it's hunting regulations causing the real problem with transporting a Rifle or Shotgun. The departments of conservation don't like long arms kept loaded ready to hand in the vehicles because Road Hunting by poachers.

Locked in a trunk separate ammo controls that, to the extent it's an add on charge after apprehension. Nobody stops traffic checking on it unless you are in an intensely managed area during the season. For the most part a lot of rural dwellers with large tracts of property keep a rifle handle for coyotes or drug farmers anyway. Thousands of farmers and ranchers in a country are never bothered with it.

The real issue is getting stopped in the first place, which would lead to a search for whatever reason. It's a very low risk other than stumbling into an alcohol checkpoint.

Larger vans and Suburban type vehicles don't have a separate locking trunk, so if the gun is secured in a case with ammo separate, you've done what you can do. Officer discretion is the real trip wire, don't get on their bad side. There is likely a higher risk in failure to inform you are carrying than simply having a long arm in a locked case in the back.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 31, 2016, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lohman446

Be aware that transporting under federal law requires minimal and necessary stops only (IE fuel) to the best of my knowledge.

The FOPA doesn't address that, so you are speculating. And that's the trouble with the FOPA. It's supposed to protect lawful owners of firearms while traveling, but doesn't define what traveling is. We can pretty safely (I think) assume that stopping for gas is okay, and probably stopping to pee. What about food? Stopping at a turnpike rest stop should be okay, but if the road doesn't have such, can you jump off at an interchange for lunch at McDonald's?

What about sleep? Surely it's not reasonable to expect a driver to go coast-to-coast non-stop, yet many people on "gun" forums claim that stopping for the not is absolutely not allowed. Others say "Sure it is." The truth is -- wed don't know because the law doesn't say.

The best strategy still seems to be to plan your route so you can sleep in "safe" states, and use a day (even if a long day) to transition completely through the unfriendly states.

By the way and FWIW, I saw an article earlier today that reported a woman from Connecticut was arrested at JFK for trying to travel with guns. I'm about to go looking for further information on this report, but it serves as a reminder: DO NOT enter NY or NJ with firearms if you are not a resident and if you don't have the required permission slips.

2ndsojourn · June 1, 2016, 08:03 AM

From AB:
"I stressed the "or" part because when New Jersey reproduced the FOPA language on their state police web site, they changed that "or" to "and."

Thanks for that. I didn't know the ammo had to be locked up as well.

Lohman446 · June 1, 2016, 11:28 AM

Quote:

The FOPA doesn't address that, so you are speculating. And that's the trouble with the FOPA. It's supposed to protect lawful owners of firearms while traveling, but doesn't define what traveling is. We can pretty safely (I think) assume that stopping for gas is okay, and probably stopping to pee. What about food? Stopping at a turnpike rest stop should be okay, but if the road doesn't have such, can you jump off at an interchange for lunch at McDonald's?

What about sleep? Surely it's not reasonable to expect a driver to go coast-to-coast non-stop, yet many people on "gun" forums claim that stopping for the not is absolutely not allowed. Others say "Sure it is." The truth is -- wed don't know because the law doesn't say.

The best strategy still seems to be to plan your route so you can sleep in "safe" states, and use a day (even if a long day) to transition completely through the unfriendly states.

By the way and FWIW, I saw an article earlier today that reported a woman from Connecticut was arrested at JFK for trying to travel with guns. I'm about to go looking for further information on this report, but it serves as a reminder: DO NOT enter NY or NJ with firearms if you are not a resident and if you don't have the required permission slips.

If I was depending on FOPA I would make it very clear I was just passing through and what my destination was both early and often in any interaction with any law enforcement officer.

As you note its not exactly clear what is meant and it could be debated (at great expense and risk in court). That being said I would make certain it was clear that I believed I was simply travelling through.

rickyrick · June 1, 2016, 01:18 PM

Texas used to be like that, traveling with a firearm was allowed. What traveling actually meant was open to interpretation by LEO and prosecutors.
Many people were abused by that legal loophole and Texas finally changed the law to allow firearms in your car.

Traveling can be construed as departing point A and arriving at point B as a final destination; anything in between is traveling.

Traveling can also be considered to only when in motion.

Going to work could be traveling or not traveling.

Some officers in Texas would say three counties crossed was traveling.

The word traveling is nuts if not defined in the statute

May 29, 2016, 04:53 PM	#1
NateKirk Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2013 Location: Detroit Posts: 435	Transportation of firearms So I'm going on a road trip later this summer and I'll be taking with me my Sig P238 for CC and possibly my Remington 870. I'm from Michigan and I've looked up what states I can still carry in with my Michigan CPL, but I am concerned with transporting the shotgun. The obvious answer to the problem is keeping it stored in a locked container in the trunk away from the ammo, however I have to travel with the rear seats down in the car for space, making the trunk accessible from the main cabin/ passenger area. This is also a problem for when I have to store my pistol in less accommodating states. Is there any reason to be concerned or am I simply overthinking things? I always try to do things in the most legal way possible, so some insight is appreciated. If it helps, I'll be traveling in the west half of the US, including California. __________________ “Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".” ― --Thomas Jefferson

May 29, 2016, 07:09 PM	#2
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	I wouldn't be too concerned as I am doing that now. I have mine in a backpack in the very back. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

May 30, 2016, 11:14 PM	#5
Coyote Blue Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2011 Location: West Miami,Florida Posts: 118	And this site can also be quite helpful: www.handgunlaw.us __________________ "It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." G.K. Chesterton From The Cleveland Press, March 1, 1921

May 31, 2016, 09:10 AM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Since California is on your agenda, also check with http://www.calguns.net/ __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

June 1, 2016, 01:18 PM	#12
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Texas used to be like that, traveling with a firearm was allowed. What traveling actually meant was open to interpretation by LEO and prosecutors. Many people were abused by that legal loophole and Texas finally changed the law to allow firearms in your car. Traveling can be construed as departing point A and arriving at point B as a final destination; anything in between is traveling. Traveling can also be considered to only when in motion. Going to work could be traveling or not traveling. Some officers in Texas would say three counties crossed was traveling. The word traveling is nuts if not defined in the statute __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

May 29, 2016, 07:24 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	The basic requirement of the federal Firearms Owners Protective Act (FOPA) is that the firearm(s) OR ammunition must be locked in the truck. If the vehicle has no trunk, the firearm(s) OR ammunition must be in a locked case. I stressed the "or" part because when New Jersey reproduced the FOPA language on their state police web site, they changed that "or" to "and." Other states may have done the same, so prudence would seem to call for locking the gun(s) and keeping the ammo in a separate, locked container. That's all the law requires -- it can be a cheap Wal-Mart padlock on a cheap Wal-Mart toolbox. The thing to be most concerned about (IMHO) is stopping or taking side trips in states where you aren't legal to even possess a firearm -- states such as New York and New Jersey are known for jacking people up over firearms possession. The FOPA applies when traveling "through" a state, not for making that state a destination.

May 30, 2016, 06:55 PM	#4
reinert Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 646	You might want to check this out; updated to current regs. in all 50 states. www.gunlawguide.com

May 31, 2016, 09:36 AM	#7
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	This references the federal law that governs interstate transport of firearms where your destination allows that firearm but your "pass-through" travels may not. Be aware that transporting under federal law requires minimal and necessary stops only (IE fuel) to the best of my knowledge. http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf As with all things I am not qualified to give legal advice and you should seek qualified and competent advice on the subject.

May 31, 2016, 11:05 AM	#8
tirod Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1,672	Reciprocity under CA CCW is a concern. The real issue is that it's hunting regulations causing the real problem with transporting a Rifle or Shotgun. The departments of conservation don't like long arms kept loaded ready to hand in the vehicles because Road Hunting by poachers. Locked in a trunk separate ammo controls that, to the extent it's an add on charge after apprehension. Nobody stops traffic checking on it unless you are in an intensely managed area during the season. For the most part a lot of rural dwellers with large tracts of property keep a rifle handle for coyotes or drug farmers anyway. Thousands of farmers and ranchers in a country are never bothered with it. The real issue is getting stopped in the first place, which would lead to a search for whatever reason. It's a very low risk other than stumbling into an alcohol checkpoint. Larger vans and Suburban type vehicles don't have a separate locking trunk, so if the gun is secured in a case with ammo separate, you've done what you can do. Officer discretion is the real trip wire, don't get on their bad side. There is likely a higher risk in failure to inform you are carrying than simply having a long arm in a locked case in the back.

June 1, 2016, 08:03 AM	#10
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	From AB: "I stressed the "or" part because when New Jersey reproduced the FOPA language on their state police web site, they changed that "or" to "and." Thanks for that. I didn't know the ammo had to be locked up as well.