September 28, 2011, 11:28 PM | #1151 |
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BGutzman wrote:ATF - All Types of Felons..... sorry to paint with so wide a brush but its a sad state of affairs...
--------------------------------------- The observation/characterization has a certain ring, it seems to me. alloy wrote:Forbes has a fairly comprehensive piece on the topic of Fast and Furious. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...mas-watergate/ ---------------------------- Strikes me that Forbes, essentially a business related publication has a lengthy piece on Fast and Furious is more than just "interesting", it seems. Additionally, re the following excerpt, "Why a gunrunning scandal codenamed “Fast and Furious,” a program run secretly by the U.S. government that sent thousands of firearms over an international border and directly into the hands of criminals, hasn’t been pursued by an army of reporters all trying to be the next Bob Woodward or Carl Bernstein is a story in itself", seems a most interesting question. Might media's traditional anti gun slant have a bearing on what seems the conspicious lack of activity by "investigative reporters" regarding this entire fiasco, or might it be that it has been run under a Democratic Administration bear on the seeming lack of media interest, a question that has been, I believe, previously raised. Seems as if the cheese gets ever more binding. |
September 29, 2011, 05:49 AM | #1152 |
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The link, she'sa no work.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
September 29, 2011, 06:19 AM | #1153 | |
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September 29, 2011, 06:34 AM | #1154 | |
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The FBI informant who was buying the guns for the cartels was actually an undercover DEA agent, reports CBS News' Sharyl Attkisson.
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September 29, 2011, 08:42 AM | #1155 |
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The fact that this article appeared in Forbes is good.
I haven't seen staff reporters at the major news organization produce much on this, but I have a feeling they will start. The staff reporters in the major MSM outlets are losing out, and it's somewhat of a goldmine of news. Despite the political views of the reporters and their managers - no one can afford to be outclassed and out-scooped. I think that one of the things that Frank Miniter has done in this article better than any single article on the scandal so far is that he shows that it's doubtful the operation was put together to somehow build a case against the cartels - none of the requisite work to accomplish that was ever done. There are gaping holes in standard investigative processes, inexplicable lapses in planning and an incredible lack of foresight and planning - if they were really trying to build a case against the cartels. However, if they were simply trying to show that lax gun laws in the United States were responsible for arming the Mexican drug cartels - they had everything they needed to accomplish that. In order to show that irresponsibly lax gun laws were responsible for arming dangerous Mexican drug cartels, they merely had to get U.S. guns into the hands of the cartel, have the guns show up at crime scenes, have a straw buyer in custody and be able to trace the guns to U.S. gun stores. I’ll admit that there were some problems with this plan – such as having any of the gun store owners reveal that the sales to straw purchasers would not have even been completed except at the urging of the BATFE. But maybe to the BATFE, that was considered a minor PR detail that could have been glazed over. The Forbes article does make it clear that if the intent of Operation Fast and Furious was to build a case that there are problems with current gun law – then they mostly had their bases covered. If the intent was to build a case against the cartels – it was inexplicably lacking in basic investigative procedures. In that regard, the operation was so poorly, planned and so poorly executed that it calls into question the stated intent of the operation. |
September 29, 2011, 09:20 AM | #1156 |
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It's more than the media. Issa and Grassley are having trouble getting traction with other members of the US congress. Those in congress who claim to care about our Second Amendment rights are saying little or nothing about Fast and Furious. My congressman did not answer my letter and e-mail on the subject.
Take a look at this organizational chart and tell me that someone high in the US justice Dep't will be held accountable for the Fast and Furious debacle. In a worst case scenario some career bureaucrats will be "censured" and retire. http://www.justice.gov/agencies/index-org.html |
September 29, 2011, 09:30 AM | #1157 | |
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I am starting to get the impression that the U.S. taxpayer is a significant source of funding for these cartels. Maybe if we stopped giving them money, that would help the Mexican government? |
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September 29, 2011, 10:48 AM | #1158 |
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Insert "My Head is Spinning" emoticon here ---> _____
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September 29, 2011, 11:04 AM | #1159 | |
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September 29, 2011, 11:25 AM | #1160 |
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Just remember you can always tell when a politician is lying.
Their lips are moving. |
September 29, 2011, 01:58 PM | #1161 |
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Yesterday, the President had a "round table" with three reporters from Spanish-media news outlets. One of the reporters asked a question about Fast and Furious. His answer was pretty vague. Obviously it was bound to be - I didn't expect him to stand up and say, "Oh, ok, yes, it was all mine and Holder's fault and we're sorry." But even for a political answer, it was pretty weak.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/28/ob...-latino-media/ It all boiled down to something along the lines of "it's hard to do the job" and "the ATF budget is too tight." Whew.
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September 29, 2011, 02:56 PM | #1162 | |
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September 29, 2011, 03:49 PM | #1163 |
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Where his lips moving?
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September 29, 2011, 04:12 PM | #1164 |
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What corporate America learned decades and decades ago is that there are tremendous cost savings and efficiencies to be gained by consolidating.
If you have three corporations like three banks, each one of those companies has a management structure, their own marketing organization, their own IT department, etc... When one bank buys the other two, they can reduce the number of people needed, they have only one marketing department, IT department etc... Not only do we not need a federal law enforcement agency that specializes in drugs and another that specializes in tobacco crimes. But it’s actually counter-productive. Fast and Furious proves it. They need to get rid of DEA, BATFE, and also fold the counterfeiting investigations that the Secret Service does – all into the FBI. When the presiden talks about ATF's budget I just think of how much waste there is in it - how many of those middle managers are just not needed if the personnel were folded into an existing management structure. If they did this they would instantly realize some savings because they would have 2 less directors to pay. |
September 29, 2011, 05:16 PM | #1165 | |
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September 29, 2011, 05:30 PM | #1166 | |
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Maybe I'm an alarmist but I think I'd rather have ATF keep the records, do the FFL inspections, handle paperwork, but turn over this top secret stuff to the other agencies.
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September 29, 2011, 07:33 PM | #1167 | |
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September 29, 2011, 07:37 PM | #1168 | |
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Even better.
No paperwork works for me, problem solved.
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September 29, 2011, 08:17 PM | #1169 | |
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Someone somewhere apparently had this agenda to make guns look bad with taxpayer money and it was done for a purely political purpose because I cant see a single mature educated adult even attempting to defend this lunacy. It never had a hope of convicting much of anyone but it had a great chance of creating deaths within our nation... with taxpayer money.... George Washington is turning over in his grave and wondering why he wasted all his time... Im prettty sure this was not what that constitution was meant to support...
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September 29, 2011, 09:10 PM | #1170 | |
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September 29, 2011, 10:43 PM | #1171 |
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Yes, amazed anyone could possibly be this stupid and conniving.
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September 29, 2011, 11:18 PM | #1172 |
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publius42 closed with the following:
Who should be coordinating the activities of these agencies again? Eric Holder, who knew nothing about what his various agencies were doing and the laws they were breaking. ------------------------------- Are you sure that Holder, in effect. hasn't a clue as to what is going on? Which of two possibilities might be worse. One being the above mentioned, the other being that he knows exactly what is going on, but simply considers himself to be above and beyond the law, which by the way he is sworn to enforce/uphold. By the way, that is just one of the things that Holder is sworn to do, another is, I believe, to "uphold and defend the Constitution". Additionally, re the FBI, the DEA and ATF, do these people have that proverbial clue? |
September 29, 2011, 11:24 PM | #1173 |
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the organizational chart shown by thalub:
http://www.justice.gov/agencies/index-org.html looks like a classic case of Hide and Seek, or possibly Hide The Salami. Muddy The Waters. |
September 29, 2011, 11:27 PM | #1174 |
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In a way, this reminds me of Iran-Contra.
Reagan's defense was that he was unaware of the actions of his subordinates. To me, that wasn't a defense; it was an indictment. I could have accepted Reagan saying that he and Congress differed on what privileges the Constitution afforded the Executive branch, as far as foreign policy constraints from Congress; I'd have respected a battle between Executive and Legislative in SCOTUS. But I'd have voted against Reagan, had he been eligible to run for a third term, because I was disgusted that he could be ignorant of such a large plan within his administration, or that he could expect me to believe that he was ignorant of it, yet competent to serve as President. Seems to me the press was all over the Reagan administration over Iran-Contra.... My views on the current Administration, President, and AG are much the same in this instance as they were over Iran-Contra. If they were truly ignorant, then they are incompetent. If they were not ignorant of it, then they wilfully violated the law, and the public trust... So actually, it's worse than Iran-Contra, as I can't actually assign a potentially worthy motive nor justification. Yet the press isn't really all over this. They might eventually be embarrassed into having to provide real coverage, as I agree with those posters who've theorized the MSM will realize they are being scooped left and right and are starting to look incompetent. |
September 29, 2011, 11:31 PM | #1175 |
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From Standing Wolf
Quote: The letter outlines an amazing alleged failure of DEA and FBI to share crucial investigative information with ATF. "Amazing?" Do I look amazed? ------------------------------ I thought that, via The Patriot Act, that the "information sharing walls" had been taken down. Do I think wrong? |
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atf , fast and furious |
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