Don't Talk To The Police!

sholling · June 9, 2008, 02:22 PM

Because 99.999% of us are good law abiding citizens that support law enforcement there is a tendency to be a bit too trusting. A tendency to think that all LEOs are our friends and spill our guts to Officer Friendly. This was brought home by a poster that happily rattled off his ammunition inventory to a 'friendly' LEO pumping him for information. Well a couple of days ago a retired LEO posted this link on another site as a service the gun owning public. It's long but I highly recommend sitting down and giving it your undivided attention. This doesn't just apply to official criminal investigations. It also applies to social situations.

"Don't Talk To The Police"

"The Police Point of View"

nate45 · June 9, 2008, 07:33 PM

Never answer questions from the police without a lawyer present. Of course excluding if you called them to file a report or the very basics when being written a ticket or some such.

copenhagen · June 9, 2008, 08:22 PM

Wow, those are really good links. Very informative.

45Marlin carbine · June 9, 2008, 08:23 PM

being investigated in the disappearance of and likely murder of an elderly woman by small town cops (a cop's brother was the one who actually commited the murder- he is still walking free) I can tell you this -DO NOT TRUST THE POLICE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE WHAT SOEVER!

RedneckFur · June 9, 2008, 08:50 PM

Very good advice and informative videos. I learned a few new things from them.

**44 AMP** · June 9, 2008, 09:09 PM

Thank you for bring them to our attention.

HarrySchell · June 9, 2008, 09:23 PM

I think it depends on the place, time and issues.

I watched the video and resolved that if, God forbid, I am involved in a self-defense situation I will, at the scene, decline to make a statement. The emotional load will be too high, I expect, to be real coherent, and that is a danger through omission, commison or self-inflicted words which can be twisted, even in all innocence by others.

I lived 29 years with my ex, and at the end I was questioning what was real, what wasn't and what was on her mind. Now, that is about as close as two people can get, and to be so confused...well, 10 minutes with a cop...he could easily take a peculiarity of how I express myself the wrong way...and we haven't slept together or had kids, blah, blah.

As they say "...can and will be used against you...". Sort of excludes exculpatory statements. Cops are faillaible, they're human. Best not to bet on it if you shouldn't.

A traffic stop is pretty easy, being fairly law-abiding except for speed limits-not much to hide or say.

Dearhunter61 · June 9, 2008, 10:02 PM

Outstanding info.

I have an issue with trusting cops as it is. This makes it even more evident that we need to make sure our rights are protected when speaking to them.

Thank YOU!

VonFireball · June 9, 2008, 10:53 PM

I'll talk to a police officer, why not?

"Hey officer, can I try shooting your pistol?"

"Hey officer, can I handle your shotgun?"

wpcexpert · June 9, 2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

I'll talk to a police officer, why not?

"Hey officer, can I try shooting your pistol?"

"Hey officer, can I handle your shotgun?"

"Hey Officer, I'm laying down now."

sasquatch · June 9, 2008, 11:21 PM

Don't believe I've ever seen so many paranoid people in one place.

cool hand luke 22:36 · June 9, 2008, 11:26 PM

Good advice.

Dust Monkey · June 10, 2008, 12:55 AM

Dont talk to them, at all. They are not there to be your friend. Provide them with ID (if you are required to) and then shut up and lawyer up.

Also, when a cop asks you if he can enter your house, treat him like a vampire. Do not let him enter, walk outside, lock the door behind you if you have to or ask if he has a warrant. If he does not, ask him to leave. If he has a warrant, be nice, obey his instructions, but by all that is holy, shut the hell up until you talk to a lawyer.

sholling · June 10, 2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Also, when a cop asks you if he can enter your house, treat him like a vampire. Do not let him enter, walk outside, lock the door behind you if you have to or ask if he has a warrant. If he does not, ask him to leave. If he has a warrant, be nice, obey his instructions, but by all that is holy, shut the hell up until you talk to a lawyer.

Adding to your point. The best advice I've heard on this (I'm not a lawyer) is to ask one and only one question... may I leave? If you are not being detained I'm told that it's best to leave ASAP because the temptation to help becomes overwhelming.

Kreyzhorse · June 10, 2008, 07:10 AM

The last time I saw someone talk to the police, it ended badly... The gentleman said, "Don't tase me bro!"

Leif · June 10, 2008, 07:33 AM

Stop snitchin'! Don't talk to the po-po!

zukiphile · June 10, 2008, 08:15 AM

A couple of different themes are mingled here.

It is true that there is no net advantage to most criminal defendants in talking to the police, even where the police threaten to or actually do abuse your person or property.

The OP brings up a different issue though.

Quote:

This was brought home by a poster that happily rattled off his ammunition inventory to a 'friendly' LEO pumping him for information.

Rattling off your extensive ammunition inventory isn't normal. Bragging about your own personal armory will be construed by non-gun people, of which many policemen are, as a sign of an imbalance that combined with your now obvious ability to cause harm logically merits some investigation.

jakeswensonmt · June 10, 2008, 11:43 AM

Check out the show "First 48" on A&E, documentary-type show about homicide detectives working cases.
About 90% of the time they bring in a suspect, they have no hard evidence against them. The police work the old good cop/bad cop standby, and amazingly it still works. Instead of lawyering up, the suspects operate their mouths until they are in deep trouble. If they are smart enough to say nothing, or just lawyer up, the police stay at square zero.
A lot of these people on the show are guilty and usually break down and give full confessions, but sometimes they bring in someone who was merely present at a homicide, and they too operate their mouths unncessarily until police have evidence to "put them at the scene" at which point the "felony murder charge" is brought against them (which means that a person can be charged with a murder that they didn't actually commit.)

I'm not trying to advocate advice on how to get away with murder, but police can be like prosecuting attorneys, casting a wide net in order to get as many arrests and press as many charges as possible, and aren't particularly worried about whether or not their arrestees deserve to be prosecuted, just so long as they can be prosecuted.

nate45 · June 10, 2008, 02:37 PM

Like for instance the term 'lawyering up' itself invented by the police to make it seem like you are doing something wrong or that makes you look guilty. Instead of the smart thing. Only the foolish would under go police interrogation without the presence of a lawyer. Of course most people in jail aren't known for being overly intelligent.

hkg3 · June 10, 2008, 05:19 PM

Very nice, thank you.

MauiDoc · June 10, 2008, 05:47 PM

Good points....I have nothing against the PD as a general rule (my brother is a CHP, and a damn good one!), but this points out some of the definite weak spots in their function as crime-solvers and perp-snaggers. I'll keep my mouth shut and 'lawyer-up', thank you very much!

Doc
_____________

HarrySchell · June 10, 2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Don't believe I've ever seen so many paranoid people in one place.

Well, in CA and related to firearms, the common attitude I have encountered is from suspicion to outright "you're dangerous" when talking to non-LEO's about being a shooter. Statements from people like the LA Mayor, Chief of LAPD and Sherriff Lee Baca re concealed carry and self-defense are not supportive.

The video of CHP officers slamming an older woman to the floor to help Ray Nagin disarm civilians after Katrina is well within the "it can happen here" range in CA. Details omitted, I have met some great LEO's and some scary bums. Since it is unlikely you will know right off which you are dealing with, you need to exercise care.

If you want to call that paranoia, up to you.

RedneckFur · June 10, 2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Don't believe I've ever seen so many paranoid people in one place.

How is exercising a constitutional right paranoid?

The gun grabbers think we're paranoid for exercising one of our rights too.

Perhaps they're right?

Dearhunter61 · June 10, 2008, 07:09 PM

It is always the one who has not experienced it to make a statement like this...

I am sure sasquatch lives in a perfect world where everyone is honest and hard working. All cops tell the truth etc etc etc...

Man what a fantasy world.

Can you please give me the address...I want to move there. Heck there are probably a lot of folks that want to live in your world. Any room?

Do you own a TV? Do you see what is happening all across the country with people being wrongly convicted? Only to be set free a couple of decades later after DNA proves they are innocent?

Did you watch OJ's Trial and the cop admitting to lying?

Boy someone is real naive here.

I hope you never happen to be on the wrong side of something like this.

pax · June 10, 2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Don't believe I've ever seen so many paranoid people in one place.

Didn't bother watching the video, did you?

(Excellent, excellent law lecture. Thanks for posting that link, Sholling!)

pax

June 9, 2008, 02:22 PM	#1
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	Don't Talk To The Police! Because 99.999% of us are good law abiding citizens that support law enforcement there is a tendency to be a bit too trusting. A tendency to think that all LEOs are our friends and spill our guts to Officer Friendly. This was brought home by a poster that happily rattled off his ammunition inventory to a 'friendly' LEO pumping him for information. Well a couple of days ago a retired LEO posted this link on another site as a service the gun owning public. It's long but I highly recommend sitting down and giving it your undivided attention. This doesn't just apply to official criminal investigations. It also applies to social situations. "Don't Talk To The Police" "The Police Point of View" __________________ Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society. Last edited by sholling; June 9, 2008 at 03:05 PM. Reason: Title change

June 9, 2008, 07:33 PM	#2
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Good advice Never answer questions from the police without a lawyer present. Of course excluding if you called them to file a report or the very basics when being written a ticket or some such. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

June 9, 2008, 08:22 PM	#3
copenhagen Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 592	Wow, those are really good links. Very informative. __________________ 'The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.' Thomas Jefferson National Rifle Association Life Member

June 9, 2008, 09:09 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Excelent videos Thank you for bring them to our attention. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 9, 2008, 09:23 PM	#7
HarrySchell Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2007 Location: South CA Posts: 566	I think it depends on the place, time and issues. I watched the video and resolved that if, God forbid, I am involved in a self-defense situation I will, at the scene, decline to make a statement. The emotional load will be too high, I expect, to be real coherent, and that is a danger through omission, commison or self-inflicted words which can be twisted, even in all innocence by others. I lived 29 years with my ex, and at the end I was questioning what was real, what wasn't and what was on her mind. Now, that is about as close as two people can get, and to be so confused...well, 10 minutes with a cop...he could easily take a peculiarity of how I express myself the wrong way...and we haven't slept together or had kids, blah, blah. As they say "...can and will be used against you...". Sort of excludes exculpatory statements. Cops are faillaible, they're human. Best not to bet on it if you shouldn't. A traffic stop is pretty easy, being fairly law-abiding except for speed limits-not much to hide or say. __________________ Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world — and never will. — Mark Twain

June 9, 2008, 08:23 PM	#4
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	being investigated in the disappearance of and likely murder of an elderly woman by small town cops (a cop's brother was the one who actually commited the murder- he is still walking free) I can tell you this -DO NOT TRUST THE POLICE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE WHAT SOEVER!

June 9, 2008, 08:50 PM	#5
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	Very good advice and informative videos. I learned a few new things from them.

June 9, 2008, 10:02 PM	#8
Dearhunter61 Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 518	WOW! Outstanding info. I have an issue with trusting cops as it is. This makes it even more evident that we need to make sure our rights are protected when speaking to them. Thank YOU!

June 9, 2008, 10:53 PM	#9
VonFireball Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 354	I'll talk to a police officer, why not? "Hey officer, can I try shooting your pistol?" "Hey officer, can I handle your shotgun?"

June 9, 2008, 11:21 PM	#11
sasquatch Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Location: Western WA Posts: 1,347	Don't believe I've ever seen so many paranoid people in one place. __________________ Just my 2¢.

June 9, 2008, 11:26 PM	#12
cool hand luke 22:36 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 768	Good advice.

June 10, 2008, 12:55 AM	#13
Dust Monkey Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2007 Posts: 723	Dont talk to them, at all. They are not there to be your friend. Provide them with ID (if you are required to) and then shut up and lawyer up. Also, when a cop asks you if he can enter your house, treat him like a vampire. Do not let him enter, walk outside, lock the door behind you if you have to or ask if he has a warrant. If he does not, ask him to leave. If he has a warrant, be nice, obey his instructions, but by all that is holy, shut the hell up until you talk to a lawyer. __________________ Civilian Date: 14 Century 1 : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law. If you are not subject to the UCMJ, you are a Civilian. I don't care one bit what updated dictionaries say.

June 10, 2008, 07:10 AM	#15
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	The last time I saw someone talk to the police, it ended badly... The gentleman said, "Don't tase me bro!" __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

June 10, 2008, 07:33 AM	#16
Leif Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2005 Posts: 1,237	Stop snitchin'! Don't talk to the po-po!

June 10, 2008, 11:43 AM	#18
jakeswensonmt Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2006 Location: Western Montana Posts: 913	Check out the show "First 48" on A&E, documentary-type show about homicide detectives working cases. About 90% of the time they bring in a suspect, they have no hard evidence against them. The police work the old good cop/bad cop standby, and amazingly it still works. Instead of lawyering up, the suspects operate their mouths until they are in deep trouble. If they are smart enough to say nothing, or just lawyer up, the police stay at square zero. A lot of these people on the show are guilty and usually break down and give full confessions, but sometimes they bring in someone who was merely present at a homicide, and they too operate their mouths unncessarily until police have evidence to "put them at the scene" at which point the "felony murder charge" is brought against them (which means that a person can be charged with a murder that they didn't actually commit.) I'm not trying to advocate advice on how to get away with murder, but police can be like prosecuting attorneys, casting a wide net in order to get as many arrests and press as many charges as possible, and aren't particularly worried about whether or not their arrestees deserve to be prosecuted, just so long as they can be prosecuted.

June 10, 2008, 02:37 PM	#19
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Right you are jakeswensonmt Like for instance the term 'lawyering up' itself invented by the police to make it seem like you are doing something wrong or that makes you look guilty. Instead of the smart thing. Only the foolish would under go police interrogation without the presence of a lawyer. Of course most people in jail aren't known for being overly intelligent. __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

June 10, 2008, 05:19 PM	#20
hkg3 Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1999 Location: Kalifornia, on my way to Arizona Posts: 1,149	Very nice, thank you. __________________ "The next time I shoot somebody I could be arrested." - Lt. Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

June 10, 2008, 05:47 PM	#21
MauiDoc Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2007 Location: Mountainside Posts: 126	yeeps Good points....I have nothing against the PD as a general rule (my brother is a CHP, and a damn good one!), but this points out some of the definite weak spots in their function as crime-solvers and perp-snaggers. I'll keep my mouth shut and 'lawyer-up', thank you very much! Doc _____________

June 10, 2008, 07:09 PM	#24
Dearhunter61 Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 518	paranoid people It is always the one who has not experienced it to make a statement like this... I am sure sasquatch lives in a perfect world where everyone is honest and hard working. All cops tell the truth etc etc etc... Man what a fantasy world. Can you please give me the address...I want to move there. Heck there are probably a lot of folks that want to live in your world. Any room? Do you own a TV? Do you see what is happening all across the country with people being wrongly convicted? Only to be set free a couple of decades later after DNA proves they are innocent? Did you watch OJ's Trial and the cop admitting to lying? Boy someone is real naive here. I hope you never happen to be on the wrong side of something like this.