Problems with my scale

CS86 · February 17, 2013, 11:28 PM

I've been having problems with a scheels digital scale that I bought over a year ago. It has a tendency to not read correctly when trickling powder really slow. If I trickle fast enough it reads and works up correctly. Once I start getting close to the desired weight, I slow down, and if i get to slow it stops.

As a check: I place the metered powder in a case, set the pan back down to see if it zero's out. Once I zero the pan out (if needed) and take the powder that I placed in the case and dump it into the pan the reading isn't correct. The only time that I can get it to work correctly is if I meter faster which is hard when I have to meter faster so the machine works right.

Does anyone else have this problem. I've tried to recalibrate it, take the batteries out and run it straight from the outlet, and made sure it is ran for awhile so its warmed up. Are there any other suggestions as to what I could try? It wasn't the cheepest and not the most expensive scale, but I'm not very impressed at this point. I'd like to get another better scale but really don't have the money for one.

chris in va · February 18, 2013, 02:41 AM

Sounds like what we call in the mountain bike world, 'stiction'. There's a bit of resistance in the action and once a larger force is applied, it finally moves.

Honestly I don't know how the innards of a digital scale work, but just a hunch.

Perhaps some powder/dust has collected under the pan and needs some blowing out?

On a side note I just don't trust electronic scales and prefer beam scales.

CS86 · February 18, 2013, 10:02 AM

What would be a good recommended beam scale? How accurate can you get with them? I'm really thinking about getting one. I'd just like to know the good and bad about the different beam scales.

Gbro · February 18, 2013, 10:08 AM

There is a good discussion about beam scales at this thread, it is one page down today.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516526

Brian Pfleuger · February 18, 2013, 10:09 AM

Digital scales have to filter their output. The number they give is derived from a calculation based on the voltage passing through a metal bar. The item you're weighing is pressure down on the bar, which induces a voltage change. The voltage fluctuates constantly and the scales software has to filter small changes or the number would never be stable. Some scales "stick" when you slowly add weight basically because the software sees the slow change as background noise and filters it out.

A quick Google search tells me that this issue has been reported with Scheel's scales.

I don't know what your budget is but you could save yourself the time and effort of manually trickling charges by going with an RCBS Chargemaster Combo or the similar Hornady version.

wncchester · February 18, 2013, 10:27 AM

Electronix circuits have what's called hysterisis, meaning a reluctance to change status due to small changes in the system. All digital circuits (all devices that constantly need to switch status from 0 to 1) exhibit hysterisis to some degree so they rarely follow the small changes from a trickler in real time. Beams have no such problem and will follow a trickler perfectly. That's part of why I have no digitals for powder on my bench, nor will I.

Some think a digital is 'faster' because it always shows a number. But that number tends to take a second or so to steady and a modern beam will steady in two seconds so there really isn't a usable difference in speed.

A digital dumpster can offer a small time and/or accuracy advantage IF the user is loading hundreds of rounds at once or is sloppy with his technique using a beam scale.

Any beam scale offered by our reloading companies is fine and all of them are equally accurate (if not more so) as digitals. Lee's little Safety Scale is inexpensive but very accurate and very sensitive but it's so light that it's a PITA to use.

Get any beam from RCBS/Dillon (Ohaus) or Redding. They need no warm up time, they won't shift with line or battery voltage and nearby magnetic fields don't bother them - nor will any hidden internal part kill itself over a stray electron. Get a beam scale, keep it clean and don't beat on it; it will litterally last forever without change.

CS86 · February 18, 2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

I don't know what your budget is but you could save yourself the time and effort of manually trickling charges by going with an RCBS Chargemaster Combo or the similar Hornady version.

I would love a RCBS Chargemaster, but my budget won't allow for one at this point.

Quote:

There is a good discussion about beam scales at this thread, it is one page down today.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516526

Thanks for the reference

At this point I will be looking into a beam scale. Thanks

February 17, 2013, 11:28 PM	#1
CS86 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2012 Location: South Dakota Posts: 224	Problems with my scale I've been having problems with a scheels digital scale that I bought over a year ago. It has a tendency to not read correctly when trickling powder really slow. If I trickle fast enough it reads and works up correctly. Once I start getting close to the desired weight, I slow down, and if i get to slow it stops. As a check: I place the metered powder in a case, set the pan back down to see if it zero's out. Once I zero the pan out (if needed) and take the powder that I placed in the case and dump it into the pan the reading isn't correct. The only time that I can get it to work correctly is if I meter faster which is hard when I have to meter faster so the machine works right. Does anyone else have this problem. I've tried to recalibrate it, take the batteries out and run it straight from the outlet, and made sure it is ran for awhile so its warmed up. Are there any other suggestions as to what I could try? It wasn't the cheepest and not the most expensive scale, but I'm not very impressed at this point. I'd like to get another better scale but really don't have the money for one.

February 18, 2013, 10:08 AM	#4
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	There is a good discussion about beam scales at this thread, it is one page down today. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=516526 __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

February 18, 2013, 10:09 AM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Digital scales have to filter their output. The number they give is derived from a calculation based on the voltage passing through a metal bar. The item you're weighing is pressure down on the bar, which induces a voltage change. The voltage fluctuates constantly and the scales software has to filter small changes or the number would never be stable. Some scales "stick" when you slowly add weight basically because the software sees the slow change as background noise and filters it out. A quick Google search tells me that this issue has been reported with Scheel's scales. I don't know what your budget is but you could save yourself the time and effort of manually trickling charges by going with an RCBS Chargemaster Combo or the similar Hornady version. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 18, 2013, 10:27 AM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Electronix circuits have what's called hysterisis, meaning a reluctance to change status due to small changes in the system. All digital circuits (all devices that constantly need to switch status from 0 to 1) exhibit hysterisis to some degree so they rarely follow the small changes from a trickler in real time. Beams have no such problem and will follow a trickler perfectly. That's part of why I have no digitals for powder on my bench, nor will I. Some think a digital is 'faster' because it always shows a number. But that number tends to take a second or so to steady and a modern beam will steady in two seconds so there really isn't a usable difference in speed. A digital dumpster can offer a small time and/or accuracy advantage IF the user is loading hundreds of rounds at once or is sloppy with his technique using a beam scale. Any beam scale offered by our reloading companies is fine and all of them are equally accurate (if not more so) as digitals. Lee's little Safety Scale is inexpensive but very accurate and very sensitive but it's so light that it's a PITA to use. Get any beam from RCBS/Dillon (Ohaus) or Redding. They need no warm up time, they won't shift with line or battery voltage and nearby magnetic fields don't bother them - nor will any hidden internal part kill itself over a stray electron. Get a beam scale, keep it clean and don't beat on it; it will litterally last forever without change. Last edited by wncchester; February 18, 2013 at 10:46 AM.

February 18, 2013, 02:41 AM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Sounds like what we call in the mountain bike world, 'stiction'. There's a bit of resistance in the action and once a larger force is applied, it finally moves. Honestly I don't know how the innards of a digital scale work, but just a hunch. Perhaps some powder/dust has collected under the pan and needs some blowing out? On a side note I just don't trust electronic scales and prefer beam scales.

February 18, 2013, 10:02 AM	#3
CS86 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2012 Location: South Dakota Posts: 224	What would be a good recommended beam scale? How accurate can you get with them? I'm really thinking about getting one. I'd just like to know the good and bad about the different beam scales.