9mm crimping question

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 5, 2007, 07:43 AM

Hey guys got a slight issue. I noticed that when loadng my first 9mm loads, I was getting a slight bulge in the top of the case after crimping, it was not much, about.002 of an inch, but drops in the barrel freely and comes out. I increase the crimp, made it worse, backed it off, and it seemed to cure the problem. Was I applying too much crimp?

p.s. I am using a LEE FCD

thanks

XD-Guy · February 5, 2007, 08:18 AM

When using the LFCD a quarter turn for a light crimp and a full turn for a heavy crimp. I go about a half and that seems to work on all calibers for me.
.40S&W, .357, .45acp and 9mm

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 5, 2007, 08:53 AM

I was at a half turn after I placed the seated round in the shell holder.
I turned the adjustment knob up and lowered the ram. I turned the adjustment knob until it stopped where it made contact with the crimp shoulder. then I turned a half turn. That seemed to be too much, backed off 1/4 turn from there and that seemed to fix it. Im gonna shoot what I have, then make adjustments form there if needed.

Ausserordeutlich · February 5, 2007, 10:58 AM

Sounds like 1/4 turn is best. All you want to do is remove the bell.

HSMITH · February 5, 2007, 11:09 AM

Yes, you were overcrimping, and doing it by a large margin. If you believe the hype it is impossible to overcrimp using the FCD, but now you know without a doubt that information is garbage.

JUST remove the bell, no more. If you can see the case turn in to the bullet you are overcrimping.

I would also get rid of the FCD, if the preceeding steps are done right it isn't needed or helpful.

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 5, 2007, 11:12 AM

I had a couple that were bad and pulled those ones, if they are not excessive
are they safe to shoot? or should I just pull them and start over if I can see the case turn into the bullet?

benedict1 · February 5, 2007, 11:40 AM

I would not get rid of the FCD. If your brass is varying lengths, as is the case for almost all of us, the FCD will post size out any bulge that may occur from the bullet seating die or even the "Glock" bulge that may still be in the loaded round prior to FCD application.

I use about 3/4 turn on the knob in my FCD for 9mm; a little more with the die for .45 ACP. No problems whatsoever.

Also, if it looks over crimped, what is the diameter at the case mouth? That is the important dimension. If too small it won't headspace properly. But if you are using the usual diameter 9mm bullets and normal cases with normal wall thickness, I doubt he FCD can squeeze it too small. What is your diameter and how does it compare to spec for 9mm??

It is possible what you are seeing is the outline of the bullet base through the brass. If that is the situation, the die post sizes and it will fit your chamber just fine. Just shoot them.

Finally, the FCD can be improperly set by turning the knob in way too far--in that case you'll see a roll crimp start to form. Are you seeing that? If so, then back off on the knob.(However, I do all my roll crimps for .38 Spec., .38 S&W and .357 Mag with FCD dies. Again, no worrying about case length variation. I use the bullet seating die just for that--bullet seating only.)

Before I used the FCD, on a Dillon machine, I had all kinds of trouble with bulged .38 Spec. cases and had to test them all with a case gauge. Case length variation was the issue. I was not about to trim 100s of cases so I opted for FCD dies for all pistol loads. I am now loading on a Lee Load Master and a Lee Classic Turret Press with Lee DeLuxe Pistol Dies.

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 5, 2007, 11:52 AM

diameter is between .374-.376, and it drops in the barrel fine. Now when I increased the crimp, it made that diameter bigger .379) I did actually for consistency trimmed 50 cases to exact length(for testing purposes). It is about .377 in the middle of the case compared to factory ammo of point .380 after loaded. All in all the case mouth is right on with factory, and my OAL is around 1.163-1.168. On paper it looks fine, but I am seeing that slight bell. The roll crinp theory I am not sure of, also, they may not have been seated deep enough either. I adjusted that and it is right on with the factory ammo.After I adjusted the die out, it seems to have eliminated the shell tucking under the bullet theory. I think thats the major issue,it was just turned down too far.

HiltonFarmer · February 7, 2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

If your brass is varying lengths, as is the case for almost all of us,

I thought that you were supposed to measure and inspect your brass regularly. If one was to be trimmed, shouldn't they all be trimmed?

HiltonFarmer

Ausserordeutlich · February 7, 2007, 02:06 PM

We don't trim handgun brass. It generally shrinks with use.

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 7, 2007, 02:12 PM

I trim, but it is kind of a passtime for me. I usually do if I am working test rounds so they are consistent across the board.

**Unclenick** · February 7, 2007, 02:43 PM

If you measure your brass and trim it all to match the shortest case, then your crimps will be more consistent. Most pistol brass shrinks with use because the pressures aren't high enough to stick the case to the chamber and stretch the head back as happens in a rifle case. Instead, the pistol case is pushed back and expanded to fill the chamber. This fattens and shortens it. The case does not fully recover its original length in the sizing die because a small portion of the brass is flowed back by sizing.

Becasue of the pistol brass shrinkage, to keep crimps consistent, you need to sort the brass by number of reloads into the future. I tracked a batch of .45 ACP cases through 50 reloads years ago. They lost an average of half a thousandth in length per reload, and I retired them when they were about 0.025" short of SAMMI minimum.

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 7, 2007, 03:11 PM

SAAMI Minimum is what on 45 acp?

MrApathy · February 8, 2007, 01:50 AM

where your bullets canted or offcenter?

check your cartridges and dies, may be off concentric.
have had a tough time with lee dies in 9mm till I went to using 2 seating dies in 9mm. one die started the seat other finished. had to remove any belling and seat the bullet with a tighter fit into the casemouth. think I might go to hornady dies.

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 8, 2007, 06:50 AM

They seem to be fine now, now more belling, and cartridge diamter at case mouth is between .375-.377 right on with factory ammo.

Dogjaw · February 9, 2007, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Hey guys got a slight issue. I noticed that when loadng my first 9mm loads, I was getting a slight bulge in the top of the case after crimping, it was not much, about.002 of an inch, but drops in the barrel freely and comes out. I increase the crimp, made it worse, backed it off, and it seemed to cure the problem. Was I applying too much crimp?

p.s. I am using a LEE FCD

thanks

To answer your question, yes. I have no experience with the Lee Factory Crimp Die, but there are 2 distinct different crimp dies. A roll crimp die, and a taper crimp die. The roll crimp die "rolls" a distinct, short crimp on the end of the brass into a bullet's cannelure to provide a positive heavy crimp in magnum revolver loads, and tubular magazines in rifles. A taper crimp die squeezes down over a larger area to crimp bullets without a cannelure. Make sure your die is a taper crimp.

ECLIPSE45ACP · February 13, 2007, 03:42 PM

come to find out, the brass was the issue. I had 5 with these "symptoms" and they were all CBC Brass

February 5, 2007, 07:43 AM	#1
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	9mm crimping question Hey guys got a slight issue. I noticed that when loadng my first 9mm loads, I was getting a slight bulge in the top of the case after crimping, it was not much, about.002 of an inch, but drops in the barrel freely and comes out. I increase the crimp, made it worse, backed it off, and it seemed to cure the problem. Was I applying too much crimp? p.s. I am using a LEE FCD thanks

February 7, 2007, 02:43 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	If you measure your brass and trim it all to match the shortest case, then your crimps will be more consistent. Most pistol brass shrinks with use because the pressures aren't high enough to stick the case to the chamber and stretch the head back as happens in a rifle case. Instead, the pistol case is pushed back and expanded to fill the chamber. This fattens and shortens it. The case does not fully recover its original length in the sizing die because a small portion of the brass is flowed back by sizing. Becasue of the pistol brass shrinkage, to keep crimps consistent, you need to sort the brass by number of reloads into the future. I tracked a batch of .45 ACP cases through 50 reloads years ago. They lost an average of half a thousandth in length per reload, and I retired them when they were about 0.025" short of SAMMI minimum. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 8, 2007, 01:50 AM	#14
MrApathy Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Posts: 529	where your bullets canted or offcenter? check your cartridges and dies, may be off concentric. have had a tough time with lee dies in 9mm till I went to using 2 seating dies in 9mm. one die started the seat other finished. had to remove any belling and seat the bullet with a tighter fit into the casemouth. think I might go to hornady dies. __________________ Divided and conquered, Gripped by fear Wishful thinking that it can't happen here It's well underways but nobody knows A repeat of history, That's how it goes

February 5, 2007, 08:18 AM	#2
XD-Guy Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Posts: 102	When using the LFCD a quarter turn for a light crimp and a full turn for a heavy crimp. I go about a half and that seems to work on all calibers for me. .40S&W, .357, .45acp and 9mm

February 5, 2007, 08:53 AM	#3
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	I was at a half turn after I placed the seated round in the shell holder. I turned the adjustment knob up and lowered the ram. I turned the adjustment knob until it stopped where it made contact with the crimp shoulder. then I turned a half turn. That seemed to be too much, backed off 1/4 turn from there and that seemed to fix it. Im gonna shoot what I have, then make adjustments form there if needed.

February 5, 2007, 10:58 AM	#4
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	Sounds like 1/4 turn is best. All you want to do is remove the bell.

February 5, 2007, 11:09 AM	#5
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Yes, you were overcrimping, and doing it by a large margin. If you believe the hype it is impossible to overcrimp using the FCD, but now you know without a doubt that information is garbage. JUST remove the bell, no more. If you can see the case turn in to the bullet you are overcrimping. I would also get rid of the FCD, if the preceeding steps are done right it isn't needed or helpful.

February 5, 2007, 11:12 AM	#6
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	I had a couple that were bad and pulled those ones, if they are not excessive are they safe to shoot? or should I just pull them and start over if I can see the case turn into the bullet?

February 5, 2007, 11:40 AM	#7
benedict1 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 245	I would not get rid of the FCD. If your brass is varying lengths, as is the case for almost all of us, the FCD will post size out any bulge that may occur from the bullet seating die or even the "Glock" bulge that may still be in the loaded round prior to FCD application. I use about 3/4 turn on the knob in my FCD for 9mm; a little more with the die for .45 ACP. No problems whatsoever. Also, if it looks over crimped, what is the diameter at the case mouth? That is the important dimension. If too small it won't headspace properly. But if you are using the usual diameter 9mm bullets and normal cases with normal wall thickness, I doubt he FCD can squeeze it too small. What is your diameter and how does it compare to spec for 9mm?? It is possible what you are seeing is the outline of the bullet base through the brass. If that is the situation, the die post sizes and it will fit your chamber just fine. Just shoot them. Finally, the FCD can be improperly set by turning the knob in way too far--in that case you'll see a roll crimp start to form. Are you seeing that? If so, then back off on the knob.(However, I do all my roll crimps for .38 Spec., .38 S&W and .357 Mag with FCD dies. Again, no worrying about case length variation. I use the bullet seating die just for that--bullet seating only.) Before I used the FCD, on a Dillon machine, I had all kinds of trouble with bulged .38 Spec. cases and had to test them all with a case gauge. Case length variation was the issue. I was not about to trim 100s of cases so I opted for FCD dies for all pistol loads. I am now loading on a Lee Load Master and a Lee Classic Turret Press with Lee DeLuxe Pistol Dies.

February 5, 2007, 11:52 AM	#8
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	diameter is between .374-.376, and it drops in the barrel fine. Now when I increased the crimp, it made that diameter bigger .379) I did actually for consistency trimmed 50 cases to exact length(for testing purposes). It is about .377 in the middle of the case compared to factory ammo of point .380 after loaded. All in all the case mouth is right on with factory, and my OAL is around 1.163-1.168. On paper it looks fine, but I am seeing that slight bell. The roll crinp theory I am not sure of, also, they may not have been seated deep enough either. I adjusted that and it is right on with the factory ammo.After I adjusted the die out, it seems to have eliminated the shell tucking under the bullet theory. I think thats the major issue,it was just turned down too far.

February 7, 2007, 02:06 PM	#10
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	We don't trim handgun brass. It generally shrinks with use.

February 7, 2007, 02:12 PM	#11
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	I trim, but it is kind of a passtime for me. I usually do if I am working test rounds so they are consistent across the board.

February 7, 2007, 03:11 PM	#13
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	SAAMI Minimum is what on 45 acp?

February 8, 2007, 06:50 AM	#15
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	They seem to be fine now, now more belling, and cartridge diamter at case mouth is between .375-.377 right on with factory ammo.

February 13, 2007, 03:42 PM	#17
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	come to find out, the brass was the issue. I had 5 with these "symptoms" and they were all CBC Brass