Need help setting up 3 gun course

scottz0369 · November 20, 2007, 01:23 PM

Howdy-
This my be my first post here-I'm a longtime lurker, though.
I'm currently deployed to Iraq (I'm a Marine Infantryman, Master Sergeant) and I want to take my boys to the "next level" in shooting. I'm a Primary Marksmanship Instructor, and a I also teach the CMP/EMP (Combat Marksmanship Program/Enhanced Marksmanship Program). Last year I made a 350meter range that incorporated long range shooting with cover/barricades, moving steadily in to 7 meters with a transition to pistol at about 30 meters. It was a ton of fun, and I'm proud to say that I designed it, but looking back, I see that is was an amateur attempt.
I've been looking at 3 gun to get more action/practical combat shooting training.
I've been unable to find many examples of courses of fire for these, though. For that, I'm turning to you, the experts on this forum.
For weapons, I have M4/M16's, M9 Pistols (I wish I had my 1911 over here), a Mossberg 590 and a Benelli JSCS Semi Auto 12 Ga. Eventually I'd like to incorporate the grenade launcher (M203), SAW, 240 and 50 cal into it, but I'll start with 3 gun. I'll probably make it multiple shooters (up to 4) once I see how it runs.
Ammo isn't an issue.
Any assistance is appreciated

Semper Fi
Top Z
Somewhere in Iraq

yar · November 20, 2007, 01:50 PM

What do you have in the way of targetry to shoot at. This will be a big factor in how the stages are designed. Do you have access to reactive steel targets, or will it be all paper.

scottz0369 · November 20, 2007, 02:41 PM

I have immediate access to paper silloutte (sp?) targets. Metal will take longer-I would have to fabricate them myself here. I'll probably start with paper, and move on to metal when I have a chance to make the targets. I found some scoring tables on the internet, and I'll probably use a version of one of them -- I don't recall exactly which ones-paladin target, maybe. For our regular scoring for combat shooting, I use a man-sized target with an 8 inch circle in the chest, and a 3 inch triangle in the head. It's just hit or miss. Simple, I know, but it does the job!

yar · November 20, 2007, 02:59 PM

Yeah the scoreing is fine you can use IMG (international multi-gun) scoring. Any two hits on target nutralizes or 1 hit in the "A-Zone" (center mass or head shot). Then just notate the overall time for the shooter to finish the stage w/ penalty time for any misses (5 seconds) or procedurals (not shooting the stage as specified - 10 seconds)

How farmilar are you with 3 gun. Have you ever shot a match before. Just asking so I know how detailed I need to go or if you will understand the general jargon etc.

I got some stage diagrams and a whole bunch of video. If you have access to high speed internet that would be the easiest. Just watch some 3 gun video on youtube, or madtrigger.com (shameless plug as it's my site). If you don't have access to high speed internet I would be more than happy to mail you a few DVD's of match footage. Then you can get a real good feel of what 3 gun stages are like.

If you just prefer to have diagrams we can do that too.

Zak Smith · November 20, 2007, 03:10 PM

It's hard to communicate stage designs without a stage diagram and written brief, and since most stages are built on an ad-hoc basis, there's no record. In any case, you might get some ideas from the match report articles in the "Articles" link in my sig line--

scottz0369 · November 20, 2007, 03:34 PM

I've never shot any sort of competition outside of regular Marine stuff, so I know very little about the 3 Gun culture/lingo. It's on my list of things to try once I retire, though! I'm stationed in 29 Palms, and after seeing that this is so popular in Southern California, I'll check out some matches when I get back.
We do have internet here, but high speed it isn't-it took 3 hours to download the video from the palms springs match linked in this forum from today! It takes about 5 minutes for this reply screen to come up after I've hit the button. I'm not complaining, though-my first several deployments had nothing like email access.

I've been able to find some pdf's on the internet of stage/range layouts, and those are extremely helpful. Something like that would be perfect. The video is great, too-Nice reload technique!

yar · November 20, 2007, 04:31 PM

pm me your mailing address I'll send you a some DVD's, Rule book, a bunch of stage diagrams from the various matches here in So. Cal. It would give me great pleasure to help you out.

softmentor · November 28, 2007, 02:25 AM

I'd try asking over at the USPSA and see if someone won't help you out. Lots of good folks and lots of experience with this.

http://www.uspsa.org/

November 20, 2007, 01:23 PM	#1
scottz0369 Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Normal, IL Posts: 60	Need help setting up 3 gun course Howdy- This my be my first post here-I'm a longtime lurker, though. I'm currently deployed to Iraq (I'm a Marine Infantryman, Master Sergeant) and I want to take my boys to the "next level" in shooting. I'm a Primary Marksmanship Instructor, and a I also teach the CMP/EMP (Combat Marksmanship Program/Enhanced Marksmanship Program). Last year I made a 350meter range that incorporated long range shooting with cover/barricades, moving steadily in to 7 meters with a transition to pistol at about 30 meters. It was a ton of fun, and I'm proud to say that I designed it, but looking back, I see that is was an amateur attempt. I've been looking at 3 gun to get more action/practical combat shooting training. I've been unable to find many examples of courses of fire for these, though. For that, I'm turning to you, the experts on this forum. For weapons, I have M4/M16's, M9 Pistols (I wish I had my 1911 over here), a Mossberg 590 and a Benelli JSCS Semi Auto 12 Ga. Eventually I'd like to incorporate the grenade launcher (M203), SAW, 240 and 50 cal into it, but I'll start with 3 gun. I'll probably make it multiple shooters (up to 4) once I see how it runs. Ammo isn't an issue. Any assistance is appreciated Semper Fi Top Z Somewhere in Iraq

November 20, 2007, 03:10 PM	#5
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	It's hard to communicate stage designs without a stage diagram and written brief, and since most stages are built on an ad-hoc basis, there's no record. In any case, you might get some ideas from the match report articles in the "Articles" link in my sig line-- __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

November 28, 2007, 02:25 AM	#8
softmentor Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Posts: 233	I'd try asking over at the USPSA and see if someone won't help you out. Lots of good folks and lots of experience with this. http://www.uspsa.org/ __________________ Way HK kinda' guy.

November 20, 2007, 01:50 PM	#2
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	What do you have in the way of targetry to shoot at. This will be a big factor in how the stages are designed. Do you have access to reactive steel targets, or will it be all paper.

November 20, 2007, 02:41 PM	#3
scottz0369 Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Normal, IL Posts: 60	I have immediate access to paper silloutte (sp?) targets. Metal will take longer-I would have to fabricate them myself here. I'll probably start with paper, and move on to metal when I have a chance to make the targets. I found some scoring tables on the internet, and I'll probably use a version of one of them -- I don't recall exactly which ones-paladin target, maybe. For our regular scoring for combat shooting, I use a man-sized target with an 8 inch circle in the chest, and a 3 inch triangle in the head. It's just hit or miss. Simple, I know, but it does the job!

November 20, 2007, 02:59 PM	#4
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	Yeah the scoreing is fine you can use IMG (international multi-gun) scoring. Any two hits on target nutralizes or 1 hit in the "A-Zone" (center mass or head shot). Then just notate the overall time for the shooter to finish the stage w/ penalty time for any misses (5 seconds) or procedurals (not shooting the stage as specified - 10 seconds) How farmilar are you with 3 gun. Have you ever shot a match before. Just asking so I know how detailed I need to go or if you will understand the general jargon etc. I got some stage diagrams and a whole bunch of video. If you have access to high speed internet that would be the easiest. Just watch some 3 gun video on youtube, or madtrigger.com (shameless plug as it's my site). If you don't have access to high speed internet I would be more than happy to mail you a few DVD's of match footage. Then you can get a real good feel of what 3 gun stages are like. If you just prefer to have diagrams we can do that too.

November 20, 2007, 03:34 PM	#6
scottz0369 Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Normal, IL Posts: 60	I've never shot any sort of competition outside of regular Marine stuff, so I know very little about the 3 Gun culture/lingo. It's on my list of things to try once I retire, though! I'm stationed in 29 Palms, and after seeing that this is so popular in Southern California, I'll check out some matches when I get back. We do have internet here, but high speed it isn't-it took 3 hours to download the video from the palms springs match linked in this forum from today! It takes about 5 minutes for this reply screen to come up after I've hit the button. I'm not complaining, though-my first several deployments had nothing like email access. I've been able to find some pdf's on the internet of stage/range layouts, and those are extremely helpful. Something like that would be perfect. The video is great, too-Nice reload technique!

November 20, 2007, 04:31 PM	#7
yar Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 134	pm me your mailing address I'll send you a some DVD's, Rule book, a bunch of stage diagrams from the various matches here in So. Cal. It would give me great pleasure to help you out.