.30-'30 for deer at longer ranges: fast/lighter or heavy/slower?

Kframe · November 19, 2013, 01:40 PM

The topic title is my question.
Most folks probably agree that the .30-'30 is a fine cartridge for whitetail at under 150 yds and at that range it *probably* doesn't make that much of a difference if you're using 150gr or 170gr, or even 125gr, if you place the shot, the deer is going down fast.

That said, with better bullet profiles these days, including the LeveRevolution, some folks are reaching further out with their ol' thutty thutty.

What are some opinions as to loading a lighter bullet faster, or a heavy bullet a bit slower, both to max loads, for those ~>200-300yd shots?

-K

jmr40 · November 19, 2013, 02:06 PM

With 30-30's long range is a relative term. Even with the Leverevolution ammo anything much past 150-200 yards is what I'd consider the rounds realistic limit. You can hit stuff farther away, doesn't mean it is a good idea.

Most folks shooting true long range with modern rounds tend to go heavier. The longer heavier bullets tend to be more aerodynamic. While they start slower, within 200-300 yards the heavier more aerodynamic bullets are moving faster and with much more energy. At 200 yards with a 30-30 it probably matters little, but I'd personally go heavier, especially if I wanted to shoot farther than 300 yards.

Just a note about the LeverEvolution ammo. The pointed bullets do help some at extended ranges. But their ballistics are a little misleading. Every other 30-30 ballistic chart shows the ammo zeroed at 100 yards with about 30" of drop at 300. Hornady cheats a little when they show their LeverEvolution ammo with only about 12" of drop at 300 by using a 225 yard zero. Zero any other conventional round nose bullet at 225 yards and they will also have a lot less than 30" of drop at 300 yards.

Brian Pfleuger · November 19, 2013, 03:51 PM

I've never checked for the 30-30 in particular but what I'd do is look for bullets suitable for my chosen game and then simply use a ballistics calculator to see if heavy and slow was better than light and fast.

Generally speaker, heavy, slower bullets for the caliber will have better long range ballistics than light, faster ones. This can be over come at the long end of medium ranges in some cases if you can find a very light, very fast bullet.

My best example is that a 35gr bullet in .22-250 with a MV of 4,450+ fps will shoot flatter out to at least 500 yards than virtually any other bullet.

In .30-30, I assume you'd be needing something in the 110gr area or so to get to that same sort of (relative, not 500 yard) performance.

In any case, a ballistics calculator can tell you what you need to know.

Sarge · November 19, 2013, 03:59 PM

I've made a clean kill on a forkhorn at 238 yards, and a cow-chasin' dog at a shade over 250, with Winchester 150 grain Power Points (deer) and a IMR 4198 reload (dog) using the basic Speer 150 grain bullet. Placement was near perfect on both (pure luck on the dog, who ran headlong into the bullet) and both were bang-skids. Expansion was evident in both cases.

57K · November 19, 2013, 04:21 PM

Personally, I consider the practical limit of the .30-30 to be 200 yards. It's a good woods or brush gun choice and under those conditions 200 yards is probably a longer distance than you're likely to encounter. Not to say that there isn't a +/- range, but past 200 yards, energy levels begin to drop to questionable levels.

I've talked to one of the SIERRA "Bulletsmiths" since they relocated to Missouri and he strongly advocated their 125 gr. bullet and had used it personally to take several whitetail there. A 170 won't lose energy as much as lighter bullets will, but bullet drop will be slightly greater.

Because they are such a good value and will cover the the majority of hunting requirements, either the 150 gr. Win. Power Point or the 150 gr. Rem. Core-Lokt are about as good as anything. The Core-Lokt is slightly more pointed and it's ballistic coefficient should be a bit higher, although I've loaded both. My preference between the 2 would be the Core-Lokt if they are available. I was always a bit concerned about using the SIERRA 125 but I have loaded and fired them. I've used 170s as well the Oregon Trails True Cast with a gas check loaded pretty warmly over Ramshot X-Terminator. No leading issues and accuracy was very good.

Pathfinder45 · November 22, 2013, 01:36 AM

170 grain at around 2,200 fps is as good or better than any others. I think the leverevolution bullets are an unneccesarry gimmick. The difference between spitzer vs round nose in trajectory out to 200 yards is minimal. If you are shooting at 300 to 500 yards then spitzers make a lot more sense. 200 yards for 30-30 with good iron sights is stretching it to the limits of the equipment and beyond the limits of all but the better marksmen. Maybe one of the better scoped Marlins could take it further, I guess. By the time you get to 300 yards it's time for a scoped 270 Winchester or something in that class. I like the 30-30. Out to 200 yards it's a flat shooter and beats the heck out of the 44 magnum or 45 Colt carbines which compete quite well with the 30-30 to 100 yards or so.

243winxb · November 22, 2013, 11:28 AM

Speed Kills

totaldla · November 22, 2013, 11:44 AM

If you reload, then you can play around will all sorts of bullets. But at the end of the day you need to remember that it isn't the cartridge - it's the carbine that makes the 30-30 popular.

Sighting systems are the practical limit. You and I can't hit squat at 200yds with the stock irons. Put a peep sight setup on it and it gets better, but 200yds is still going to be a stretch. Put a scope on it and now you've screwed up the nifty carbine.

I've loaded 110, 125, 130 and 150 grain fodder looking for a magic combo. I've kindof come to the conclusion that I'm never going to get a 300yd PBR.

Some rifles shoot 170gr pills better than 150's and I don't know why. Like I've discovered over and over - it takes shots to learn to shoot. And learning to shoot is more important than bullet weight, performance, etc.

So at the end of the day, I've settled on Speer 150gr flat point pills launched at 2350fps from the 20" tube.

By the way, there is some really bad load data bouncing around on the net where old farts tell you that you can turn your 30-30 into a 270 Winchester - don't use that data! The old gas bags never pressure tested anything and you'll beat to death perfectly good guns.

November 19, 2013, 01:40 PM	#1
Kframe Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 1999 Location: MN Posts: 640	.30-'30 for deer at longer ranges: fast/lighter or heavy/slower? The topic title is my question. Most folks probably agree that the .30-'30 is a fine cartridge for whitetail at under 150 yds and at that range it probably doesn't make that much of a difference if you're using 150gr or 170gr, or even 125gr, if you place the shot, the deer is going down fast. That said, with better bullet profiles these days, including the LeveRevolution, some folks are reaching further out with their ol' thutty thutty. What are some opinions as to loading a lighter bullet faster, or a heavy bullet a bit slower, both to max loads, for those ~>200-300yd shots? -K __________________ RN - ICU NRA - PATRON LIFE

November 19, 2013, 03:51 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	I've never checked for the 30-30 in particular but what I'd do is look for bullets suitable for my chosen game and then simply use a ballistics calculator to see if heavy and slow was better than light and fast. Generally speaker, heavy, slower bullets for the caliber will have better long range ballistics than light, faster ones. This can be over come at the long end of medium ranges in some cases if you can find a very light, very fast bullet. My best example is that a 35gr bullet in .22-250 with a MV of 4,450+ fps will shoot flatter out to at least 500 yards than virtually any other bullet. In .30-30, I assume you'd be needing something in the 110gr area or so to get to that same sort of (relative, not 500 yard) performance. In any case, a ballistics calculator can tell you what you need to know. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

November 19, 2013, 03:59 PM	#4
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I've made a clean kill on a forkhorn at 238 yards, and a cow-chasin' dog at a shade over 250, with Winchester 150 grain Power Points (deer) and a IMR 4198 reload (dog) using the basic Speer 150 grain bullet. Placement was near perfect on both (pure luck on the dog, who ran headlong into the bullet) and both were bang-skids. Expansion was evident in both cases. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

November 22, 2013, 01:36 AM	#6
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	170 170 grain at around 2,200 fps is as good or better than any others. I think the leverevolution bullets are an unneccesarry gimmick. The difference between spitzer vs round nose in trajectory out to 200 yards is minimal. If you are shooting at 300 to 500 yards then spitzers make a lot more sense. 200 yards for 30-30 with good iron sights is stretching it to the limits of the equipment and beyond the limits of all but the better marksmen. Maybe one of the better scoped Marlins could take it further, I guess. By the time you get to 300 yards it's time for a scoped 270 Winchester or something in that class. I like the 30-30. Out to 200 yards it's a flat shooter and beats the heck out of the 44 magnum or 45 Colt carbines which compete quite well with the 30-30 to 100 yards or so.

November 22, 2013, 11:44 AM	#8
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,295	If you reload.... If you reload, then you can play around will all sorts of bullets. But at the end of the day you need to remember that it isn't the cartridge - it's the carbine that makes the 30-30 popular. Sighting systems are the practical limit. You and I can't hit squat at 200yds with the stock irons. Put a peep sight setup on it and it gets better, but 200yds is still going to be a stretch. Put a scope on it and now you've screwed up the nifty carbine. I've loaded 110, 125, 130 and 150 grain fodder looking for a magic combo. I've kindof come to the conclusion that I'm never going to get a 300yd PBR. Some rifles shoot 170gr pills better than 150's and I don't know why. Like I've discovered over and over - it takes shots to learn to shoot. And learning to shoot is more important than bullet weight, performance, etc. So at the end of the day, I've settled on Speer 150gr flat point pills launched at 2350fps from the 20" tube. By the way, there is some really bad load data bouncing around on the net where old farts tell you that you can turn your 30-30 into a 270 Winchester - don't use that data! The old gas bags never pressure tested anything and you'll beat to death perfectly good guns. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

November 19, 2013, 02:06 PM	#2
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	With 30-30's long range is a relative term. Even with the Leverevolution ammo anything much past 150-200 yards is what I'd consider the rounds realistic limit. You can hit stuff farther away, doesn't mean it is a good idea. Most folks shooting true long range with modern rounds tend to go heavier. The longer heavier bullets tend to be more aerodynamic. While they start slower, within 200-300 yards the heavier more aerodynamic bullets are moving faster and with much more energy. At 200 yards with a 30-30 it probably matters little, but I'd personally go heavier, especially if I wanted to shoot farther than 300 yards. Just a note about the LeverEvolution ammo. The pointed bullets do help some at extended ranges. But their ballistics are a little misleading. Every other 30-30 ballistic chart shows the ammo zeroed at 100 yards with about 30" of drop at 300. Hornady cheats a little when they show their LeverEvolution ammo with only about 12" of drop at 300 by using a 225 yard zero. Zero any other conventional round nose bullet at 225 yards and they will also have a lot less than 30" of drop at 300 yards.

November 19, 2013, 04:21 PM	#5
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Personally, I consider the practical limit of the .30-30 to be 200 yards. It's a good woods or brush gun choice and under those conditions 200 yards is probably a longer distance than you're likely to encounter. Not to say that there isn't a +/- range, but past 200 yards, energy levels begin to drop to questionable levels. I've talked to one of the SIERRA "Bulletsmiths" since they relocated to Missouri and he strongly advocated their 125 gr. bullet and had used it personally to take several whitetail there. A 170 won't lose energy as much as lighter bullets will, but bullet drop will be slightly greater. Because they are such a good value and will cover the the majority of hunting requirements, either the 150 gr. Win. Power Point or the 150 gr. Rem. Core-Lokt are about as good as anything. The Core-Lokt is slightly more pointed and it's ballistic coefficient should be a bit higher, although I've loaded both. My preference between the 2 would be the Core-Lokt if they are available. I was always a bit concerned about using the SIERRA 125 but I have loaded and fired them. I've used 170s as well the Oregon Trails True Cast with a gas check loaded pretty warmly over Ramshot X-Terminator. No leading issues and accuracy was very good.

November 22, 2013, 11:28 AM	#7
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Speed Kills