Shiloh Sharps or C.Sharps

[JohnnyCash1979]

I need your opinions on what rifle to go with. I will be ordering a 1885 Highwall from C.Sharps in March. I will also be ordering a Sharps in March. I was planning on going with Shiloh but I have been researching here on the web and now I am really confused. What would you go with for a Sharps? What are the pros and cons of each company? I was also thinking of going ahead and placing a order with Shiloh and get a 1875 Sharps from C.Sharps in the meantime. One last question can u get presentation wood, diffrent finishes, etc. from C.Sharps? I was looking at there web site and when u get this the price of the rifle goes way up to like $5000.00. I know Shiloh offers u alot of options and u can pick what u like. Any help, opinions, pictures thoughts would be greatly appreciated I am really confused right now. P.S. I know C.Sharps offers diffrent wood, finishes but they are listed under custom rifles on there web and are really pricey can I just add these options to a basic rifle and get it the way I want it? Thank You

[JohnnyCash1979]

Anyone?

[long rider]

Sorry pard i wish i could help you. Maybe hawg might help
you when he sees your thread

Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

[long rider]

I must draw attention to my last statement.
I ment no disrespect to any other members
when i said hawg might help,its just that hawg
sems to have a lot of knowledge on bp rifles,
and i am sure there is a lot of members that
are knowledgeable on the subject, for i dont
want to stand on anybodys toes.

Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

[jwaldo4]

while you folks are on this subject. is there a difference between the 45/70 govt. and the sharps 45/70? or is it in my mind?

[HAWKIN]

C. Sharps or Shiloh....

It works like this.

1. C. Sharps, forged receiver. That means cut out of a single block of steel

2. Shiloh Sharps, cast receiver, cast and then machined out.

3. C. Sharps, Badger Barrels, most MODERN and new equipment used. Great.

4. Shiloh, they make their own barrels on WWII equipment. Good.

5. C. Sharps, one piece firing pins. Shiloh, two piece.

6. Shiloh has better wood to select from (as of '08).

Both rifles are fine arms. Both rifles are legendary.

Of the finest Sharps made in the last ten years, the highest end guns appear to be made by C. Sharps (Buffalo Falls, Actic Sharps as examples).
Both these guns ran more than $50k and the guys that had them made knew exactly why they chose C. Sharps.

Having said that, lets be clear, they are both great guns. Both shops are responsive and deeply caring.

See the following, this is a C. SHARPS ARMS RIFLE being shown on the SHILOH SHARPS web site.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11052

Do not miss page "7".

[Jim Watson]

Most of the stuff Hawkin lists is stuff to talk about on the Internet, it doesn't affect the final quality or the shooting. Winston Churchill could make a Stevens Favorite look great.

The short answer is that Shiloh has a long delivery time but a board where you can chit chat while you wait. C. Sharps has more guns in stock and is not gabby. As to options and styles, well, u get what u pay for.

The guy who got me into BPCR shoots Shiloh.

If I wanted a Sharps, it would be a choice between C. Sharps and paying Bill Goodman $200 for a Shiloh he constantly keeps on order. I figure I am too old to wait a year and a half or two years for a direct order to Shiloh.

Me?
I shoot a Winchester and am looking at a Browning. I figure you will be ahead of the game when your Highwall comes in.

[sharps387]

Sir - What Hawkin said is good advise - C. Sharps. Just for your info, I have owned more than 8 Sharps over the years. I recently bought a Pedersoli from Cabelas and it is the most accurate Sharps I have ever owned or fired.

[GoldenRoyBoy]

I'm a Sharps fan of just about any American maker! I own more than I can shoot; and the Model 1875 is a good choice. 45-70s are cheap to shoot too; once you shoot your wad investing in all your reloading and casting equipment. I own no less than 4 C. Sharps. I own one Shiloh. This wasn't by design; but by budget. I never purchase new; I shoot them. There is always a used Sharps for sale by either company. Both are worthy; neither is better than the other in my humble opinion. I would strongly suggest investing in the best sights you can get though. I've bought the rifle just for the sights! Both companies sell good venier and globe sights; and for less than MVA. It's easier, IMO to buy them already installed on the rifle. Especially the front. I recently had trouble finding a front globe sight to fit one of my C. Sharps; even from the maker! John's attitude bothered me a little.

Many swear by Pedersoli; I swore at the one I owned until the day I sold it. The metal was just too soft; the accuracy was fine however.

Good luck with your choice!
Just buy one of each (used).
GRB

[jdscholer]

A gal that I work with, won a Shiloh in a raffle at an elk foundation dinner. They were calling it a Quigley Rifle, but it is 45-70, not 45-120 as I think Quigley's was. "Oh bummer"
I was clueless about them, and she brought it to work and gave me a little fondle time with it and -MY GOD- it's beautiful. She has since purchased the veneer sight for it, for about three hundred or so bucks, and shot a box or two of shells through it, and pretty much put it away. Savin it for her #1 son, after she crosses over. sigh
I don't get around much, so it is probably the nicest rifle I have ever held. jd

[redwing 40]

Golden Boy Roy- I was interested in your post on the DPS Sharps. You mentioned they were soft and caused many problems for you. Would you explain these problems. I am not at all surprised as most of these off shore bargains have some problems.
My 44/77 is an original Remington rolling block with a hell'ev lot of work over.

[GoldenRoyBoy]

No, Pedersoli actually, IMO makes the best Sharps/other Reproductions from overseas at a reasonable price. I was just unhappy with the overall quality/hardness of the metal. I couldn't touch anything on the rifle without scratching or scraping it. Don't get me wrong, I use my stuff and like honest to goodness marks of merit . But, if I had a screw come lose, I knew touching it the screw-head would bugger. As far as accuracy, as good as any maker out there when using the better venier/globe sights.

Thank you for your interest in my opinion; I'm wrong alot, just ask my wife.
GRB

[HAWKIN]

Jim is right, it is exactly what people on gun forums talk about....24 hours a day.

Jim is wrong, the barrel difference is huge as is the number of Shiloh Sharps rebarreled at C. Sharps.

Jim is right, Winston Churchill makes everything look good.

Jim is wrong, he did not engrave either of the Sharps mentioned or referenced in the thread.....both rifles done by Barry Lee Hands.

[longranger]

The trick to any of the Sharps rifles whether it's C.Sharps or a Shilo or DPS, Is in what you feed it. It takes time to develope loads for any rifle,BPCR rifles take more time than smokeless.I think the most important is finding the best O.A.L for the given cartridge.Pedersoli' has alot of "freebore' in their chambers,Shilo has none.The 45-70 is by far the easiest to get to shoot well.The heavier bullets will shoot better,1:18 twist (most common in 45 cal)is for stabilizing heavy bullets, shallow grooves for fairly soft lead.The next thing that has to be done is fouling control i.e. blow tube,wiping between shots.Casting your own bullets from a good mold maker is important as anything.

BTW, Quigly's rifle was a 45-110 not 120

[Jim Watson]

the barrel difference is huge as is the number of Shiloh Sharps rebarreled at C. Sharps.

And only one Internet Report of those huge numbers? Wow.
Oh, well, my newly acquired (made ca 1998) Miroku Browning has a Badger barrel, the brand C. Sharps proudly advertises.
I think C. Sharps big advantage is that they make 1885 Winchester copies, too. The rifle designed by John M. Browning as an improvement over the Sharps.

[HAWKIN]

Jim, your kind of in a bad mood, eh?

Well, in this thread there is one person saying that a great number of competitive Shiloh rifles are rebarreled. It might be because of the machine that bores them.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/...hm_13e3c16.jpg

Its a good machine well kept and well run by extremely prideful people. What they can do with a 1940 machine is remarkable. But, it is not, nor will it ever be anywhere as close to Badgers being able to keep .0001 tolerances across a full 40". It might interest some to know that Badgers shop for making just the barrels is larger that Shiloh's whole operation.

For some, a rifle starts with the barrel. For some, a rifle ends with the barrel.

Even some folks here...

http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/...mm_0a37796.jpg

P.S. There is no improvement over a Sharps and definatetly not by something, correction...anything, made in Japan.

[mackillan]

Then C.Sharps must be more accurate. Which one wins the competitions?

[Jim Watson]

The ones owned by the best bullet casters and loaders, mostly.

P.S. There is no improvement over a Sharps and definatetly not by something, correction...anything, made in Japan.

Agree and disagree.
My Jap Browning kinda sorta highwall was a compromise.
Pro: Good barrel, affordable price, immediately available.
Con: It only LOOKS like a highwall... somewhat. Good stock throughbolt but otherwise ridiculously complicated.
I did not see a C. Sharps 1885 in stock that I liked and did not want to pay their much higher price and wait for delivery of an admittedly superior rifle.
That's the agree part.

The disagree part is that I much prefer shooting a Highwall.
Swing lever, insert cartridge, swing lever back, aim, fire.
Swing lever to extract empty, insert fresh cartridge, swing lever back, aim, fire.

To a Sharps.
Swing lever, insert cartridge, swing lever back, cock hammer, aim, fire.
Half cock to protect firing pin, swing lever to extract empty, insert fresh cartridge, swing lever back, cock hammer, aim, fire.

(Not including setting a set trigger. A good highwall can have a 2 lb or under plain trigger which is light enough for me.)

The self cocking action of the Winchester design makes a world of difference to me. I shoot BPCR silhouette on a time limit and I don't like the half cock -full cock ritual of the Sharps. Harder to work around the side hammer with a scope on the gun, too; which I figure I will get around to one of these days.

[mackillan]

This may be similar to the old controversy over button vs hammer forged. Hand worked machines are often more precise than mass produced. We have no evidence that C. Sharps barrels are better. Shiloh likes to keep a small operation with almost handcrafted operations. I picked up two shilohs last week and they are works of art.

[mconfluence]

I have both C sharps and shilo sharps both came from a company in Montana had them both for 21 years one of them shots a 38-55 the other uses a 458 win mag never shot it yet.

[cornbush]

How does the Pedersoli or Uberti stack up? Not for competition, just a shooter.

I would love a C. Sharps or a Shilo, but 2K on up is a little out of my range.

I would be shooting smokeless 45/70. Where do the sharps fall in the pressure range, Marlin lever, Ruger #1, or do they need lower pressure loadings?

[cornbush]

Dont mean to hijack the thread, but who makes the best vernier sights for the money?

[Jim Watson]

Pedersoli is the best of the Italian repros, and the only one I have ever seen shot successfully at BPCR. All they will say is that their guns are proof tested for regular use with smokeless powder up to the SAAMI maximum of 28,000 CUP. Lyman says that will get a 420 grain bullet to more than 1800 fps, which is way more fun than I want.

Shiloh says THEIR Sharps will stand Ruger pressures but recommend loading lighter and letting the 30 inch barrel make up the difference.

The leading vernier tang sights are MVA and Baldwin.
"For the money", you can pay less and shoot ok with Parts Unknown imported from the Ukraine and several of the guys on the Shiloh board are very strong on Ron Heilman. Pedersoli has their own line of sights, but the line count at the last match I went to showed two Pedersoli Sharps but no Pedersoli rear sight.

[cornbush]

Thanks Jim, I just want a shooter. I have checked into the Pedersoli's, just wanted some opinions from guys that have experience with them. I'm just afraid its going to be a curse, I'm sure I'll want more.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Re: Pedersoli vs. Uberti Sharps...

Dick Trent of Pedersoli USA claims that Uberti does NOT make a Sharps. Mr. Trent says that Pedersoli makes the entire rifle, Uberti purchases them and roll marks their name on them. The barrels are definitely marked Pedersoli, but I'll have to take his word on the action and wood. The tang sight that came with my Uberti was a piece of garbage, but other than that, I have no complaints. I picked up a Lee Shaver deluxe long range soule sight w/Hadley eye cup for a reasonable price, and it's worked out quite well.