Another Glock "KB" This time in 9mm

[James K]

FWIW, that looks to me like out of battery firing, with the bulge extending all around the case. Naturally, the case let go at the bottom, where it would have been far enough out of the chamber to be unsupported, regardless of the type of barrel.

As for reloads, gun factories won't guarantee their guns with reloads. The reason is that if the ammo is made by a licensed commercial factory, the two companies' engineers and lawyers can get together and figure out whose problem it is. But many "commercial reloaders" have no engineers, little or no quality control, and sometimes not even fixed addresses where they can be reached. Some are careful to buy only once-fired brass from military and police ranges; others buy range scrap from commercial ranges, shooting clubs, etc. I have seen "commercial reloads" that appeared equal to factory ammo; I have also seen "commercial reloads" that even a neophyte reloader would have been ashamed to claim - bent, dented and crushed cases, varying bullet seating depths, crooked primers, etc.

Jim

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

I am with ya on this James.

I think it is an unwritten rule though that gun factories will not warranty against "any defective ammunition" even if it were Federal, Speer or Hornady.

[MarkCO]

That is not a KB, that is a over-pressure, bad case or out of battery. Case ruptures are common, in all calibers of reloaded ammo.

[TailGator]

I don't know but firing out of battery to me would seem like a pistol issue

Not necessarily. A round that doesn't quite chamber properly for any reason can leave a pistol out of battery but still capable of striking the primer. A round that is too long will obviously do it, but so can a damaged rim and, since 9 mm cases taper slightly, any irregularity along the length of the case. Personally, I use a chamber gage to check all my reloads.

[Jim Watson]

"Fire out of battery" is a difficult concept for me.

If a tilt-barrel pistol is so far out of battery that there is a dangerous exposure of case wall, how does the primer get hit?

[Tom Servo]

Run reloaded ammunition and you take more chances than true factory original ammunition, at least imo and the opinions of the warranty services of many manufacturers.

While that's generally true, I've seen my share of KB's from factory ammunition. It's rare, but it can happen. Hornady and Corbon have both had issues in the recent past.

That said, I've seen a huge upswing in bulged/blown guns over the last two years. The cause is simple: everybody and their brother is turning out ammo to meet the shortage and standards are lax. We've seen a slew of homebrew gunshow suppliers spring up, and it only takes one improperly loaded round to kill a gun.

[TunnelRat]

We've seen a slew of homebrew gunshow suppliers spring up, and it only takes one improperly loaded round to kill a gun.

And therein lies my problem. Where I am I never see reloaded ammunition for more than say 3 cents a round less than factory, and I can find factory ammo for the same price if I look hard enough. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.

[MarkCO]

It is not the warranty services, but the lawyers that drive the warnings against reloads.

I have had 4 "issues" over the course of 30 or so years. The first was a Glock KB in .40 in 1990, likely the KB that started most of the research about the issue of lead in Glocks. The other 3 were all factory ammo, one double charge and 2 squibs. I may have shot 30K of factory ammo and over 500K of my reloads. The numbers in my case are slanted against factory ammo.

Having investigated close to 300 "Glocks with issues" the VAST majority are reloads, so with the "average" shooter, sure, reloads will pose a greater risk. I tend to think that the majority of people here on TFL are not the average shooter though.

[NJgunowner]

I disagree, most people on here are the average shooter... Just like in the real world we got experts and wannabe experts, we just know how to use computers too

I think this should be re-titled to bad reload causes kaboom. Don't think glock is to blame on this one.

[Pond, James Pond]

My general complaint with KB stories and the like is that they are often second-hand accounts.

They often don't have all the details.

They often originate from an owner who is unhappy at losing a firearm and may want someone to blame:
What better way than to say "it's the gun's fault", whilst omitting a flurry of other factors that have bearing on the matter but may make the finger of blame start to point back at the owner.

For me, unless the story comes from a reliable (preferably first hand) source I have some salt within easy reach.

[Clark]

I was in the biz of designing power electronics and overloaded a lot of my designs to blow them up to find the weak spots.
This is not HAST [highly accelerated stress test] but a power overload.
The tests gave me information fast on how to make the best designs, which was a competitive advantage.

I started reloading in 1999 and immediately started overloading guns to try to blow them up. My father, chief engineer of a gun and vehicle design operation for 40 years had dozens of patents, but his forte was pounding on table tops and yelling in 150 employee's faces.

He yelled in my face that I was crazy with blowing up perfectly good guns. I showed him how I was planning and documenting the tests, and he calmed down, a little.

I tried to blow up my 3 Glocks from the beginning
1) It was easy to blow up cases in the G22 40s with case support at 0.235" compared to a 40sw case web being 0.180" thick. Also the chamber diameter was over the max tolerance range per SAAMI drawings. Usually chambers are close to the tight end.
And with a case failure being the primary failure, the escaping gas could wreck a lot of Glock parts as a secondary failure. But welded up for case support, I could exceed 44 mag power levels.
2) It was easy to blow up the G20 10mm with case support at 0.250" and a web of .180" etc
3) But it was nearly impossible to get case failures in the G19 9mm with case support at 0.190" and webs 0.160" thick. It took 50% extra powder of the most peaky powder. I put a 48 pound triple recoil spring in the G19 and it was only enough spring for 10% extra powder.

And that is how i looked at glocks until October 2014.
Glocks are strong.
They just to have barrels case support
The stock glock 9mm barrel has case support already

when I had a case fail in the G20 with serious recoil springs and a 40sw KKM barrel with support at .200".
It seems that I found a bad piece of brass.



Now after 15 years I will add another stipulation:
4) Glocks just need good brass.

[AK103K]

What I find most interesting is that there are disproportionately more problems with re-manufacturered ammunition in semi-auto’s than revolvers than I personally have ever heard about.

I find that interesting too. My experience has been just the opposite. Ive had more problems with with the revolvers that were ammo related, than I have autos, and I shoot a lot more auto than I do revolver.

Revolvers also tend to be scaryier, simply because you can keep going before you know there is trouble, and when you do have even simple issues, they tend to lock the gun up and put it out of action until its resolved.

Glocks, Sigs and M&P's alike I have been able to just barely apply rearward pressure to the slide and still pull the trigger.

Ive seen this as well with the Glocks, and had to prove it to myself to believe it. Still, when it does occur, the gun is for all intents and purposed, locked up, and not what I would consider out of battery. At least not completely.

"Fire out of battery" is a difficult concept for me.

If a tilt-barrel pistol is so far out of battery that there is a dangerous exposure of case wall, how does the primer get hit?

I was thinking the same thing.

Glocks may fire "slightly" out of battery, but not that far, unless there was something wrong with the round, and/or there was something out of the norm for the gun.

I have had a catastrophic out of battery "slamfire" with a M1 Garand, and know things can happen. That ammo was factory/GI, and no explanation was ever given by the DCM after they got it back, They did give me a new gun too.

Ive also had multiple slamfires in my one AR, using inappropriate primers for an auto loading gun. They, like my Glocks, were for the most part, locked up, and there was no issue other than some unexpected and exciting "burst fire"(from the AR, not the Glocks).

I think this should be re-titled to bad reload causes kaboom.

Probably.

My general complaint with KB stories and the like is that they are often second-hand accounts.

They often don't have all the details.

They often originate from an owner who is unhappy at losing a firearm and may want someone to blame:
What better way than to say "it's the gun's fault", whilst omitting a flurry of other factors that have bearing on the matter but may make the finger of blame start to point back at the owner.

For me, unless the story comes from a reliable (preferably first hand) source I have some salt within easy reach.

No doubt, and I tend to agree.

Many of the people I know around here where we live who reload, "swear" they are the best reloader in the world, and their ammo is the most accurate and reliable.

Just from hearing them talk, it also doesnt take too long to figure out, they dont load much and I know Im not likely to shoot their stuff, not that that occasion is likely to transpire anyway.


Now, as far as Glocks and reloads....
I own a number of Glocks, most of them 9mm, with a couple of .380's, and shoot them regularly, and a couple of those, "weekly".

I also reload, and have been doing so since the 60's. 99% of what I shoot out of my Glocks, are my reloads. Knock on wood, so far Ive been lucky, and have yet to have an issue. My one 17 just passed 75000 rounds last weekend. I have a 26 thats at around 30,000. The only trouble Ive had so far, has been with worn out brass (worn out from constant load/shoot/reload cycle), and that brings the occasional malfunction, which just happens to be great for practicing unexpected malfunction drills.