H&K USP, or 1911?

[Chui]

Great post Chui!

Have you tried the HK45 compact? I haven't, but then again I haven't actually shot the HK45 either. I am curious if the compact frame/grip, that is similar to the P2000 grip, is as good as the finger groove/spider man full sized grip.

I've not seen the HK45 Compact yet. They are supposedly in country but not yet released. I read this on HKPRO. I would imagine that it is similarly effective. The first pictures I saw of the P30 I "didn't like" it due to the "Spiderman" treatment on the stock. But I ended up purchasing a P30 several hours after I picked it up. I find the P30 simply fantastic. It feels superb and shoots exceedingly well. I do find myself carring it more than the M&P9 when I choose to go 9mm plastic. That's "dissapointing" to me as I adore the M&P.

One thing some may ask is "how is it you profess to love a true DA pistol when you are a proponent of 1911s?" Well, I took Andy Stanford's Surgical Speed Shooting class with my P226. I was superb on the first day and the second day he challenged me to use the DA. I struggled. But he challenged me to master the pull and I dry fired that pistol 200 times per night for a month. So, long story short I'm pretty good with that P226 (the DA trigger is very smooth now) and the transition isn't bad at all. In fact, those who have them should send them to Sig to have the Short RESET Trigger installed. The reset is shorter than that of a Glock! Even so, a Glock, M&P, XD and/or 1911 is quicker than the Sig or HK45 even if only slightly.

Hint: Pull the DA trigger smoothly. Sounds easy; not easy to accomplish. So think of it this way: pull it smoothly as if you were rowing a boat. Go slowly intially. Once you can do it slowly pick up the rate in which you can maintain that level of smoothness. It will come quickly, albeit with a lot of work input.

Thus, I can/you can pick up the HK45/P30/P22x with it's heavy DA trigger, draw, get on the trigger and have a nice break with a very quick and accurate series of follow upshots.

Another gun that I did handle at the shop, and which does have the option of an external safety is the S&W M&P 45. That gun feels really good in the hand and looks like a good gun. Maybe in the future I'll buy an M&P 45 instead of an HK to supplement the 1911's that I currently have.

I did get to see the new HK45. it is a huge pistol and kinda weird looking. The grip was very comfortable, but the gun seemed too large for me. Plus it has a huge sticker price. I actually prefer the blockier looks of the USP and USP Compact.

Good luck with your 1911. Don't forget to check out the M&P 45 as a future gun - the ergonomic design of the M&P 45 is really nice.

The M&P45 is a very nice pistol both ergonomically speaking and as a shooter. The trigger pull on the manual safety versions is initially very heavy. They seem to break in with use. I chose to disassemble the slide and very carefully polish the firing pin block/plunger. No other work was required. I have the external safety version and I do like it, however after the trigger time put in yesterday I think it' for sale. On my particular one the finish is wearing too easily. Of course, S&W will refinish the slide pro bono and the slide is stainless steel. I did plan on sending it to IonBond in Greensboro, NC to put their supern W DLC (i.e., Tungsten DLC) coating. The cost is ONLY $100 for the stripped slide and rear (10-8 Perfomance) rear sight.

If anyone's interested...

[patrol]

The decock safety you like so much does exist in several pistols. It's called traditional double action and exist on quite a few mdls and makes. For customer service and several options look at Smith and Wesson. They have a Plethora of pistol's that will fit any need you like. The even will add a manual safety to their striker fired M&P's if you prefer it.

[vox rationis]

Thanks for the info Chui. So many cool guns, so EXPENSIVE..

I definitely understand your comments about mastering DA. I actually learned to shoot while shooting DA with S&W revolvers. I was a senior in HS and I learned while being enrolled in shooting courses at a local PD academy through my Law Enforcement Class. We shot the armory Model 19 S&W's that had a real smooth DA pull after probably thousands upon thousands of rounds that had been put through them. The point though is that even while shooting bullseye, we always had to use DA, and I think it was indispensable for learning how to master trigger control, and learning how to properly prep the DA trigger when shooting either fast, or for bullseye. Having said that, I definitely prefer SA (or even a consistent striker type trigger) in semi autos, as I find that it is a lot easier for me to train using only one type of trigger pull.

[RevolverLover]

. I actually learned to shoot while shooting DA with S&W revolvers. I was a senior in HS and I learned while being enrolled in shooting courses at a local PD academy through my Law Enforcement Class.

I'm curious, what police academy was this?

[nobody_special]

I was hoping to post a photo and range report for my new 1911 today, but that will not be happening. I ordered a PT1911SS from BudsGunShop.com - just before they dropped the price by $50 . On Friday, the gun was delivered to the FFL who had agreed to do the transfer.

Unfortunately I have not been able to contact the FFL. So I have no idea when I'll be able to pick it up...

[vox rationis]

I'm curious, what police academy was this?

Rio Hondo Police Academy in Southern CA..back in 1987....ah the memories..

[RevolverLover]

Rio Hondo Police Academy in Southern CA..back in 1987....ah the memories..

I knew it They are still using 6" M19's BTW.

[lsufan1971]

A LEO buddy of mine told me recently that his department switched for the USP .45 to the Glock 21. They loved the USP but HK made their armorer go to an HK class every year at a cost of about 3K. He said HK would not sell them any parts unless they attended the class. I asked him why they just didn't buy their parts from a supplying dealer and he said it was hard too because HK those dealers if they sold directly to LEO. I find this a little hard to believe. Anyone else heard of anything like this?

[Chui]

H&K components are hard to come by... I once worked with the largest HK dealer in MI and while I cannot vouch for your story the parts WERE few and far between.

[nobody_special]

Not to interrupt the side discussion, but... it seems my gun is, err, missing...



Edit: found in the custody of the post office. Whew!

[vox rationis]

I knew it They are still using 6" M19's BTW.

Haha what?! They are probably the same guns! Those DA actions are probably so smooth now, that they have a 5 lb pull and getting light primer strikes! jk..

Are you in So. CA?

[RevolverLover]

Haha what?! They are probably the same guns! Those DA actions are probably so smooth now, that they have a 5 lb pull and getting light primer strikes! jk..

Are you in So. CA?

Yes, they are very smooth and are getting light primer strikes. The instructors believe its the hard primers on the lead-free ammo they use.

[dpetreikis]

well, you have to understand that, when considering a firearm for hd/sd duty, the only things that really matter are reliability, reasonable accuracy and personal comfort, or "feel." everything else is secondary. I've owned and carried revolvers, a Norinco 1911, Glocks 30, 23, 27 and 32, a Ruger P97, Kel-Tec P11, S&w 3913, HK USPc and several others. While I have total confidence in the Glocks (and I was especially fond of the models 30 and 32), I had no problem carrying the Ruger. I found it to be amazingly accurate and totally reliable, lacking only in the "cachet" of a more snobbish brand name. The Norinco? Roughly made, with visible tooling marks inside the slide, small sights, average blueing at best, but it went bang every time. The Kel-Tec was obviously a budget handgun, but also had no reliability issues, i just did not like the long, heavy DAO trigger pull for each shot. Great concealment pistol, though. For me, though, the USPc was my fave. i carried mine every day for years until i (stupidly) sold it. After almost 4 years of daily concealed carry, the finish was just starting to show its first signs of slight wear around the forward edgs of the slide. it was accurate, it was reliable, it fit me perfectly and i will get another one as soon as my budget allows, but until then, my ruger and my glock will do just fine.

[Cmdrdredd]

I'll pass on the P30 and P45 for lack of a safety switch, though the improved ergonomics do sound nice.

I see that a lot of people prefer the HK; can I ask why? Reliability? Ergonomics? Something else?

Thanks...

This may have been addressed before but I just now read through this topic so I wanted to comment.

The safety switch on the P30 and P45 are the same as any revolver or Glock, your finger. That means if you touch the trigger you will have to accept the fact that your gun will fire. That being said, a Glock with a round chambered is much more likely to ND and probably somewhat dangerous in that aspect. Take the P30 or P45 and pull the trigger back, it's a long hard trigger pull that takes effort. Now, when you do that with a glock there is not much resistance (5lb trigger weight). Both would be super reliable, shoot anything out of the chamber, and great guns. I just put a deposit on a HK P30 and I own a Glock17. I was looking for something more compact than the 17 and they showed me a P30. As soon as I held it, I wanted it. I had my mind set on a G19 but they happen to have sold them. I held and checked out a sig, a S&W M&P, and a Springfield XD. All great weapons, but the 2 I liked most was Glock and HK. Now do note I was looking at 9mm and compact guns. After holding a G23 then a P30 it just felt better to me. Looked more agressive (hey I'm superficial sometimes too) and although expensive I knew it was an HK. Something about holding an HK feels good to me.

People like the HK because of the name. HK has been in military and special forces service for a long time. It's trusted and tested. As with Glocks, they are rugged weapons that won't fail when you need them to function. The price comes with the name and craftsmanship. Glocks are cheaper by comparison because they are a much simpler design with fewer moving parts that can fail. With an HK you have a more complicated system, but still relatively easy to maintain. When you start talking about 1911s they really take attention to detail to get continuous operation in the field. Still, it's hard to find a more accurate pistol than a quality 1911.

So it's up to you. If you want something rugged that will fire just about any ammunition you feed it a HK will do it. You want a reliable weapon provided you keep up with maintenance (as you should with any gun) and one that will be super accurate then a 1911 is nice.

[vox rationis]

Yes, they are very smooth and are getting light primer strikes. The instructors believe its the hard primers on the lead-free ammo they use.

when I was there we were using good ol' 100% American Lead 148 grain wadcutters!


But back to the conversation. I have the USP base covered, and a G17, now I need to work on getting a superb 1911!...and maybe an HK45..and a P30...

[Cmdrdredd]

But back to the conversation. I have the USP base covered, and a G17, now I need to work on getting a superb 1911!...and maybe an HK45..and a P30...

Win the lottery first?

[vox rationis]

yeah! the LOTTO! I gotta start playin' that sucka!

[Jason_G]

Jason G
Thanks! That is exactly what I was looking for!

Interesting...

Jason, thanks for that photoshop treatment..

No problem, happy to help.

Jason