WW2 Garand question

chris in va · September 14, 2012, 11:22 PM

I was reloading for my Garand tonight and something crossed my Virgo mind.

When soldiers in WW2 and Korea had to resupply, did ammo come loose or already in enbloc clips? Did the troops ever have to reload the clips?

kraigwy · September 14, 2012, 11:30 PM

They came in Eblocs

Even when I was running sniper schools using the M1C/Ds in the 70-80s we got match ammo in eblocs.

How ever, the Air Guard used M1s for competition, they got the same M-72 we used in boxes of 20.

There was a lot of ball issued in 5 round clips, but they were for the 1903/a3s that were used in WWII and Korea.

Even 7.62X51 came in 5 round clips. There was a charger that went over the M14 magazine or you could recharge your magazine while it was in the rifle via the M14s clip guide.

chris in va · September 14, 2012, 11:46 PM

Thanks Kraig, fascinating.

NWPilgrim · September 15, 2012, 02:03 AM

Most of the surplus ammo CMP used to sell was packed in clips in bandoleers. Six clips per bandoleer and four bandoleers per .30 ammo can = 192 rds per can. When you watch WWIi movies and the troops are grabbing ammo out of a jeep they are grabbing the thin cloth bandoleers (not the heavy canvas belt type with eight clips but the thin fabric ones with 6 clips).

Like this one:

Most of the surplus .30-06 is sold out these days and at best you get loose ammo in a can, or commercial ammo in boxes. I still have a couple of cases (four cans per case) of the HXP ammo packaged that way.

Chris_B · September 15, 2012, 06:40 AM

I did get one bandoleer of HXP packaged with two, five round steel stripper clips per pouch, for 03A3 or BAR use. The rest were in en blocs. Some of the en blocs in that can were rusty and dirty- like with (I'm assuming) Greek soil. Somebody was in a hurry that day

madcratebuilder · September 15, 2012, 07:16 AM

GI ammo

match grade

Dfariswheel · September 15, 2012, 06:47 PM

M1 ammo was also packed "in bulk".
These came with no bandoleers, all the ammo was packed in clips with cardboard bullet protectors, tightly packed in an ammo can the same size as the bandoleer packs.
The center top clip had tape on it to use as a handle to pull the first clip out.
I seem to remember there were 262 rounds??? per can in clips.

This may have been after the war. The cans I got from the DCM were post-Korean War issue by Lake City. I "think" it was LC-1972.

James K · September 15, 2012, 07:38 PM

Special ammo, like that NM, was packed in 20 round boxes; the shooters had to load their own clips (5 or 8 round). In the 1950's we also got ball ammo in boxes for training and the troops who were not on the line loaded clips.

But AFAIK, all combat troops got ammo in clips in bandoliers, packed in "spam" cans. Normally it was Armor Piercing, not ball, since it was common to have to fire at light vehicles or obstacles of various types and the higher velocity of the AP gave better results. Actual armor piercing was not common as firing at a tank with a rifle or rifle caliber machine gun was rather pointless.

It was done, though. There is (or used to be) a German tank turret at Aberdeen with a couple of dozen AP cores stuck in it. It looked like a hedgehog.

Jim

kraigwy · September 16, 2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Special ammo, like that NM, was packed in 20 round boxes; the shooters had to load their own clips (5 or 8 round). In the 1950's we also got ball ammo in boxes for training and the troops who were not on the line loaded clips.

Nah, All the M-72 (Match '06) came in the clips for my Sniper Schools. The only 20 round box M-72 that we had was that that was issued by the Air Force to the Air Guard guys who used matched out M1s.

James K · September 16, 2012, 12:35 PM

I didn't say that match ammo came ONLY in boxes, I said some special ammo (including match) came in boxes. I have fired a whole lot of match ammo that came out of boxes, just like that shown by madcratebuilder, so it didn't ALL come in clips.

JIm

bedbugbilly · September 16, 2012, 03:14 PM

Please excuse my ignorance in asking this question. I've never had any experience with a MI Garand - but I did have some of the 8 round loaded clips that are shown in the one photo above that came in the cloth bandolier. A friend gave them to me along with some 20 round boxes of match ammo that were from his Camp Perry days when he was in the service. I passed them on to another friend who got a M1 Garand from the DCM. At any rate . . .

When loading the M1 Grand with the 8 round clips as those shown, is the entire clip with 8 rounds loaded into the rifle and then the empty metal clip eject after the last round is fired or do they operate the same way as a "stripper clip"? I've used stripper clips on the Enfields that I used to have (303) so am familiar on how they work - the same as 5 round stripper clips for the 03A3, etc. I've just never seen how the M1 Garand functions in terms of the metal clips and rounds.

Thanks for a quick lesson - greatly appreciated!

kraigwy · September 16, 2012, 03:25 PM

You stick the whole clip in the rifle and the rifle will eject it after the last round is fired.

PING

Dfariswheel · September 16, 2012, 05:38 PM

As above, the entire clip is inserted into the rifle, and when the last round is fired, the case and the empty clip are ejected with the famous M1 "PING" sound.

James K · September 16, 2012, 10:35 PM

That "ping" noise gave rise to one of the silliest stories told during and after WWII. At some time or other, some armchair general heard about that "ping" and invented a story that goes something like this:

When the last round is fired from an M1 rifle, the ejected clip makes a pinging sound when it hits the ground. The enemy listened for that sound. Knowing the poor American was struggling to reload his rifle, the German (or Japanese) would charge over the 100 (or 500 or 1000) yards of ground separating the lines and bayonet the GI in his foxhole while his rifle was empty and he was helpless.

Of course this requires 1) that the battlefield be so quiet that the ping can be heard 100 (or 500 or 1000) yards away, 2) that the enemy soldier is in good enough physical condition to run 100 (or 500 or 1000) yards, 3) that it takes a long time to reload an M1, and that 4) the two soldiers are alone on the battlefield. If anyone believes any of the above, he might be gullible enough to believe the silly "ping" story.

(FWIW, a man having experience with an M1 and with clips handy can reload almost before the clip hits the ground, so that enemy soldier might have a problem.)

Jim

Sport45 · September 17, 2012, 04:32 AM

Ah, c'mon. That story is at least as good as the one where the infantryman kept an empty clip in his pocket. He'd fling it to imitate his M1 running dry so he could shoot Jerry when he started his charge...

bedbugbilly · September 17, 2012, 02:12 PM

Thank you for educating me on the clips and M1 - appreciate it. I've heard the "ping" that you're talking about in a number of movies and figured that it went in with the rounds and ejected on the last shot but wasn't sure having never had any experience with the Garand. Thanks again - enjoyed the "tale" as well!

jsmaye · September 18, 2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

When the last round is fired from an M1 rifle, the ejected clip makes a pinging sound when it hits the ground.

I thought the <ping> was caused by the rifle's ejection of the clip, not by the clip hitting the ground. WWII was not fought in a big parking lot.

robmkivseries70 · September 18, 2012, 01:17 PM

Quote,"I thought the <ping> was caused by the rifle's ejection of the clip, not by the clip hitting the ground. WWII was not fought in a big parking lot." True!

Avenger · September 18, 2012, 06:46 PM

On concrete, you get *PINGGGgggg*plink tinkle tinkle....On grass, you get *PINGGGgggg* thiipp.

James K · September 18, 2012, 06:52 PM

Quote,"I thought the <ping> was caused by the rifle's ejection of the clip, not by the clip hitting the ground. WWII was not fought in a big parking lot."

Both, if the clip lands on on paved, hard or stony ground. The ping from ejection alone is not as loud as when it hits the ground, though. But it really doesn't make any difference unless you believe the story.

Jim

RJay · September 18, 2012, 07:11 PM

And after a few thousand rounds with no ear plugs you wouldn't be able hear a ping if it jumped and bit you

, along with tank motors, artillery, grenades, mortars, My Uncle said that you had to yell at the guy in the same foxhole just to get his attention. No ping intended Added: GI's being GI's, they never waited until the last minute to recharge their weapon, if they were down two or three rounds they would eject what rounds they had and insert a new enbloc. If they were short of ammo they would pick up the loose rounds and load a enbloc later, While resting, they never had a low or empty rifle. They always kept it fully topped off. I would guess the opposite side did the same

SPEMack618 · September 18, 2012, 11:12 PM

I've read that the PING story was so wide spread that the guys at Aberdeen designed a plastic clip for the Garand.

James K · September 19, 2012, 06:29 PM

Hi, RJay,

According to some very reliable sources, they didn't eject the clip with unfired rounds. They shot off the remaining rounds in the direction of the enemy so they could reload with a full clip. The ammunition wastage got so severe that orders were issued against the practice. And you can guess how much good that did.

I never heard the plastic clip story, and doubt it. No one in any authority or who had been in combat ever believed the "ping" nonsense.

Jim

SPEMack618 · September 19, 2012, 06:37 PM

It was just mentioned in passing in Ordance Up Front. by Roy Dunlap. Don't how verifiable that is.

RJay · September 19, 2012, 06:43 PM

Well, it would be easier to pull the trigger several times ( and keep the other guys on their toes) rather than to work the action and then pick up the shells. Being a ex GI my self I was always taught to do it the hard only if you are unable to do it the easy way.

September 14, 2012, 11:22 PM	#1
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	WW2 Garand question I was reloading for my Garand tonight and something crossed my Virgo mind. When soldiers in WW2 and Korea had to resupply, did ammo come loose or already in enbloc clips? Did the troops ever have to reload the clips?

September 14, 2012, 11:30 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	They came in Eblocs Even when I was running sniper schools using the M1C/Ds in the 70-80s we got match ammo in eblocs. How ever, the Air Guard used M1s for competition, they got the same M-72 we used in boxes of 20. There was a lot of ball issued in 5 round clips, but they were for the 1903/a3s that were used in WWII and Korea. Even 7.62X51 came in 5 round clips. There was a charger that went over the M14 magazine or you could recharge your magazine while it was in the rifle via the M14s clip guide. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 15, 2012, 02:03 AM	#4
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Most of the surplus ammo CMP used to sell was packed in clips in bandoleers. Six clips per bandoleer and four bandoleers per .30 ammo can = 192 rds per can. When you watch WWIi movies and the troops are grabbing ammo out of a jeep they are grabbing the thin cloth bandoleers (not the heavy canvas belt type with eight clips but the thin fabric ones with 6 clips). Like this one: Most of the surplus .30-06 is sold out these days and at best you get loose ammo in a can, or commercial ammo in boxes. I still have a couple of cases (four cans per case) of the HXP ammo packaged that way. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

September 15, 2012, 07:16 AM	#6
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	GI ammo match grade Last edited by madcratebuilder; September 16, 2012 at 08:09 AM.

September 16, 2012, 03:14 PM	#11
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Please excuse my ignorance in asking this question. I've never had any experience with a MI Garand - but I did have some of the 8 round loaded clips that are shown in the one photo above that came in the cloth bandolier. A friend gave them to me along with some 20 round boxes of match ammo that were from his Camp Perry days when he was in the service. I passed them on to another friend who got a M1 Garand from the DCM. At any rate . . . When loading the M1 Grand with the 8 round clips as those shown, is the entire clip with 8 rounds loaded into the rifle and then the empty metal clip eject after the last round is fired or do they operate the same way as a "stripper clip"? I've used stripper clips on the Enfields that I used to have (303) so am familiar on how they work - the same as 5 round stripper clips for the 03A3, etc. I've just never seen how the M1 Garand functions in terms of the metal clips and rounds. Thanks for a quick lesson - greatly appreciated! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 14, 2012, 11:46 PM	#3
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Thanks Kraig, fascinating.

September 15, 2012, 06:40 AM	#5
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	I did get one bandoleer of HXP packaged with two, five round steel stripper clips per pouch, for 03A3 or BAR use. The rest were in en blocs. Some of the en blocs in that can were rusty and dirty- like with (I'm assuming) Greek soil. Somebody was in a hurry that day

September 15, 2012, 06:47 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	M1 ammo was also packed "in bulk". These came with no bandoleers, all the ammo was packed in clips with cardboard bullet protectors, tightly packed in an ammo can the same size as the bandoleer packs. The center top clip had tape on it to use as a handle to pull the first clip out. I seem to remember there were 262 rounds??? per can in clips. This may have been after the war. The cans I got from the DCM were post-Korean War issue by Lake City. I "think" it was LC-1972.

September 15, 2012, 07:38 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Special ammo, like that NM, was packed in 20 round boxes; the shooters had to load their own clips (5 or 8 round). In the 1950's we also got ball ammo in boxes for training and the troops who were not on the line loaded clips. But AFAIK, all combat troops got ammo in clips in bandoliers, packed in "spam" cans. Normally it was Armor Piercing, not ball, since it was common to have to fire at light vehicles or obstacles of various types and the higher velocity of the AP gave better results. Actual armor piercing was not common as firing at a tank with a rifle or rifle caliber machine gun was rather pointless. It was done, though. There is (or used to be) a German tank turret at Aberdeen with a couple of dozen AP cores stuck in it. It looked like a hedgehog. Jim

September 16, 2012, 12:35 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I didn't say that match ammo came ONLY in boxes, I said some special ammo (including match) came in boxes. I have fired a whole lot of match ammo that came out of boxes, just like that shown by madcratebuilder, so it didn't ALL come in clips. JIm

September 16, 2012, 03:25 PM	#12
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	You stick the whole clip in the rifle and the rifle will eject it after the last round is fired. PING __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 16, 2012, 05:38 PM	#13
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	As above, the entire clip is inserted into the rifle, and when the last round is fired, the case and the empty clip are ejected with the famous M1 "PING" sound.

September 16, 2012, 10:35 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That "ping" noise gave rise to one of the silliest stories told during and after WWII. At some time or other, some armchair general heard about that "ping" and invented a story that goes something like this: When the last round is fired from an M1 rifle, the ejected clip makes a pinging sound when it hits the ground. The enemy listened for that sound. Knowing the poor American was struggling to reload his rifle, the German (or Japanese) would charge over the 100 (or 500 or 1000) yards of ground separating the lines and bayonet the GI in his foxhole while his rifle was empty and he was helpless. Of course this requires 1) that the battlefield be so quiet that the ping can be heard 100 (or 500 or 1000) yards away, 2) that the enemy soldier is in good enough physical condition to run 100 (or 500 or 1000) yards, 3) that it takes a long time to reload an M1, and that 4) the two soldiers are alone on the battlefield. If anyone believes any of the above, he might be gullible enough to believe the silly "ping" story. (FWIW, a man having experience with an M1 and with clips handy can reload almost before the clip hits the ground, so that enemy soldier might have a problem.) Jim

September 17, 2012, 04:32 AM	#15
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Ah, c'mon. That story is at least as good as the one where the infantryman kept an empty clip in his pocket. He'd fling it to imitate his M1 running dry so he could shoot Jerry when he started his charge... __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

September 17, 2012, 02:12 PM	#16
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Thank you for educating me on the clips and M1 - appreciate it. I've heard the "ping" that you're talking about in a number of movies and figured that it went in with the rounds and ejected on the last shot but wasn't sure having never had any experience with the Garand. Thanks again - enjoyed the "tale" as well! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 18, 2012, 01:17 PM	#18
robmkivseries70 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: free territory Posts: 203	Quote,"I thought the <ping> was caused by the rifle's ejection of the clip, not by the clip hitting the ground. WWII was not fought in a big parking lot." *True!*

September 18, 2012, 06:46 PM	#19
Avenger Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Posts: 274	On concrete, you get PINGGGggggplink tinkle tinkle....On grass, you get PINGGGgggg thiipp.

September 18, 2012, 06:52 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Quote,"I thought the <ping> was caused by the rifle's ejection of the clip, not by the clip hitting the ground. WWII was not fought in a big parking lot." Both, if the clip lands on on paved, hard or stony ground. The ping from ejection alone is not as loud as when it hits the ground, though. But it really doesn't make any difference unless you believe the story. Jim

September 18, 2012, 07:11 PM	#21
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	And after a few thousand rounds with no ear plugs you wouldn't be able hear a ping if it jumped and bit you, along with tank motors, artillery, grenades, mortars, My Uncle said that you had to yell at the guy in the same foxhole just to get his attention. No ping intended Added: GI's being GI's, they never waited until the last minute to recharge their weapon, if they were down two or three rounds they would eject what rounds they had and insert a new enbloc. If they were short of ammo they would pick up the loose rounds and load a enbloc later, While resting, they never had a low or empty rifle. They always kept it fully topped off. I would guess the opposite side did the same __________________ Ron James Last edited by RJay; September 18, 2012 at 10:36 PM.

September 18, 2012, 11:12 PM	#22
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	I've read that the PING story was so wide spread that the guys at Aberdeen designed a plastic clip for the Garand. __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

September 19, 2012, 06:29 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, RJay, According to some very reliable sources, they didn't eject the clip with unfired rounds. They shot off the remaining rounds in the direction of the enemy so they could reload with a full clip. The ammunition wastage got so severe that orders were issued against the practice. And you can guess how much good that did. I never heard the plastic clip story, and doubt it. No one in any authority or who had been in combat ever believed the "ping" nonsense. Jim

September 19, 2012, 06:37 PM	#24
SPEMack618 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Location: Central Georgia Posts: 1,863	It was just mentioned in passing in Ordance Up Front. by Roy Dunlap. Don't how verifiable that is. __________________ NRA Life Member Read my blog! "The answer to any caliber debate is going to be .38 Super, 10mm, .357 Sig or .41 Magnum!"

September 19, 2012, 06:43 PM	#25
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Well, it would be easier to pull the trigger several times ( and keep the other guys on their toes) rather than to work the action and then pick up the shells. Being a ex GI my self I was always taught to do it the hard only if you are unable to do it the easy way. __________________ Ron James