Load for .45 ACP 230 grain lead trunaced cone?

maillemaker · March 15, 2011, 02:36 PM

So I'm using the Lee tumble lube 230 grain truncated cone mold now, to see if I can solve the problems caused by the shoulder on the 230 grain round nose bullet.

Is 4.0 grains still a good starting load for this round?

Steve

medic15al · March 15, 2011, 02:56 PM

What was the shoulder problem?

I load 5 grns Bullseye under a 230 Hornady FMJ-FP so with a lead bullet I would say that was a good starting point.

overkill0084 · March 15, 2011, 03:25 PM

Problem? What problem. The shoulder ain't no problem. 4.0 gr of Bullseye ought to work as a good starting point (you don't actually name the powder).

Shoney · March 15, 2011, 04:25 PM

maillemaker wrote:

Quote:

to see if I can solve the problems caused by the shoulder on the 230 grain round nose bullet.

What problem????????????

Quote:

Is 4.0 grains still a good starting load for this round?

4 grains of what???????

?????????????????????????

snuffy · March 15, 2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Is 4.0 grains still a good starting load for this round?

4 grains of what, SAND? Bellybuttonlint?

this bullet?

Or this one?

The first one might cause a problem IF you left the front driving band in front of the brass. The trick with the lee tumble lube boolits is you have to crimp right into the front driving band to leave it flush with the case mouth. If that was your problem, you'll be in the same boat with the 230 TC TL.

maillemaker · March 15, 2011, 08:46 PM

This was the problem:

http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...s/problems.htm
http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...lems/sizes.htm

Basically, the Lee 230 grain LRN tumble groove bullet has a shoulder that is about .016" tall. Couple this with the brass .011" thick, and you end up with a shoulder that is about .027" tall all the way around the base of the bullet.

I'm hoping that the tumble lube truncated cone bullet, which has no shoulder, will feed better for me.

4 grains of what, SAND? Bellybuttonlint?

Sorry.

Bullseye. According the load data that came with my Lee dies, a 230 grain lead bullet is a 230 grain lead bullet, so 4.0 grains of Bullseye should be fine for a starting load.

Steve

zxcvbob · March 15, 2011, 09:14 PM

I have that TL452-230-TC mold and I really like it for .45 Colt. I haven't tried it in .45 ACP cuz I don't load that cartridge, but it is .025" shorter than Lee's -2R and -1R round nosed bullets. So for the same OAL, you won't be seating the bullet as deep, and maybe not running into the case web and bulging the brass (if that's what is causing the trouble)

Hog Buster · March 15, 2011, 11:04 PM

Yeah Steve, 4 gr. should make it work. Because you still might have a bit of drag you may have to up it a bit. You’ll know for sure as soon as you fire a couple and check the next one in the mag. Hope the bullet change solves your problem......... Gene

grubbylabs · March 15, 2011, 11:34 PM

My Lyman book has that mold listed and it starts out at (Bullseye) 4.6 and goes to 5.1 with a COL of 1.170. If you want any other powders let me know.

this is out of the new Lyman book the 4th edition.

maillemaker · March 16, 2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

My Lyman book has that mold listed and it starts out at (Bullseye) 4.6 and goes to 5.1 with a COL of 1.170. If you want any other powders let me know.

this is out of the new Lyman book the 4th edition.

Hey, thanks for the info, but I also have a Lyman Reloading Handbook and it is the "49th" edition. What Lyman book do you have?

This is the one I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Reloadin...ref=pd_sim_b_2

Steve

grubbylabs · March 16, 2011, 09:28 AM

Sorry it is the casting book, not just the reloading book. They listed loads for several molds from other makers including RCBS, Lee, Saeco, and a few others. As you can imagine they have quite a few powders listed for that mold.
This is the one I have http://www.amazon.com/Cast-Bullet-Ha...ef=pd_sim_b_11

maillemaker · March 16, 2011, 10:46 AM

Wow.

I actually ordered that book from Amazon, and I think I got ripped off.

What I received was basically a sales brochure for Lyman products. Didn't look like that book at all. Maybe it was an older edition or something. I'll check when I get home.

Steve

grubbylabs · March 16, 2011, 01:26 PM

Ya it is actually kind of a decent book. I am glad I read it.

maillemaker · March 18, 2011, 12:42 AM

Well, I ordered the wrong damn thing. I ordered the Lyman Reloading and Cast Bullet Guide. Cost $18! And all it is is basically a product catalog for Lyman. Damn.

maillemaker · March 18, 2011, 12:44 AM

OK, Grubby, so for the Lee 230 grain Tuble Lube Groove Truncated Cone bullet, the starting was 4.6 grains of Bullseye? This is quite a bit more than what Lyman lists for the 230 grain LRN bullet, which starts at 4.0 grains.

Steve

grubbylabs · March 18, 2011, 07:27 AM

I found it to be a very mild load, my springer XD likes the max load and shoots very well with it.

The difference may have to do with how deep the bullet seats, but I am not sure. I have the same Lee mold # TL452-230-TC I found it to be a good shooting bullet but there are many on the cast forum who found it other wise.

Cascade1911 · March 18, 2011, 06:33 PM

For what its worth:

Hornady 8th: 4.4gr-5.5gr

Lee 2nd:4.0 gr-4.0gr

As a newb to .45 ACP I started at 4.5 and worked up to 5.5 by .2 gr. Had zero problems along the way. Everything functioned fine. Had zero indications of excess pressure. I'm going with the 4.7 gr bullseye for now and will compare to 4.5gr. and 4.3gr. I'll probably try loading down to see where I start getting function problems.

(Above fired through Springfield Mil Spec 1911)

Cascade1911 · March 19, 2011, 12:22 PM

It's interesting that Lee is claiming velocity of 810 fps for their 4.0 grains of Bullseye while Hornady predicts 800 fps with 4.7 grains.

grubbylabs · March 19, 2011, 06:48 PM

Is the data the same across from both. Same bullet same seating depth same same every thing? Including test firearm. barrel lengths will give different fps results as well.

pstrlipscomb · March 19, 2011, 07:01 PM

I and a friend have been shooting that bullet with 4.6 grains of win 231 at 1.170 OAL. Shoots a little low for him but dead on for me from Kimber TLE II. A very accurate load for me.

Cascade1911 · March 20, 2011, 06:35 AM

I'm sure you are right Grubbylabs.

Hornady is using their own swaged bullet with a COL of 1.245" Lee is giving data for a generic "230 Grain Lead Bullet" with a "Min OAL" of 1.190".

I've GOT to get me a chronograph so I can see for myself the effect various changes such as seating depth, make or style of bullet and even primer make and type.

March 15, 2011, 02:36 PM	#1
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Load for .45 ACP 230 grain lead trunaced cone? So I'm using the Lee tumble lube 230 grain truncated cone mold now, to see if I can solve the problems caused by the shoulder on the 230 grain round nose bullet. Is 4.0 grains still a good starting load for this round? Steve

March 15, 2011, 03:25 PM	#3
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,162	Problem? What problem. The shoulder ain't no problem. 4.0 gr of Bullseye ought to work as a good starting point (you don't actually name the powder). __________________ Cheers, Greg “At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke

March 15, 2011, 09:14 PM	#7
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I have that TL452-230-TC mold and I really like it for .45 Colt. I haven't tried it in .45 ACP cuz I don't load that cartridge, but it is .025" shorter than Lee's -2R and -1R round nosed bullets. So for the same OAL, you won't be seating the bullet as deep, and maybe not running into the case web and bulging the brass (if that's what is causing the trouble) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

March 15, 2011, 11:04 PM	#8
Hog Buster Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2009 Location: Pointe Coupee, Louisana Posts: 772	Yeah Steve, 4 gr. should make it work. Because you still might have a bit of drag you may have to up it a bit. You’ll know for sure as soon as you fire a couple and check the next one in the mag. Hope the bullet change solves your problem......... Gene __________________ Those who beat their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't.-Thomas Jefferson

March 15, 2011, 11:34 PM	#9
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	My Lyman book has that mold listed and it starts out at (Bullseye) 4.6 and goes to 5.1 with a COL of 1.170. If you want any other powders let me know. this is out of the new Lyman book the 4th edition. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

March 15, 2011, 02:56 PM	#2
medic15al Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2007 Location: Pell City, AL Posts: 123	What was the shoulder problem? I load 5 grns Bullseye under a 230 Hornady FMJ-FP so with a lead bullet I would say that was a good starting point.

March 15, 2011, 08:46 PM	#6
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	This was the problem: http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...s/problems.htm http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...lems/sizes.htm Basically, the Lee 230 grain LRN tumble groove bullet has a shoulder that is about .016" tall. Couple this with the brass .011" thick, and you end up with a shoulder that is about .027" tall all the way around the base of the bullet. I'm hoping that the tumble lube truncated cone bullet, which has no shoulder, will feed better for me. 4 grains of what, SAND? Bellybuttonlint? Sorry. Bullseye. According the load data that came with my Lee dies, a 230 grain lead bullet is a 230 grain lead bullet, so 4.0 grains of Bullseye should be fine for a starting load. Steve

March 16, 2011, 09:28 AM	#11
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Sorry it is the casting book, not just the reloading book. They listed loads for several molds from other makers including RCBS, Lee, Saeco, and a few others. As you can imagine they have quite a few powders listed for that mold. This is the one I have http://www.amazon.com/Cast-Bullet-Ha...ef=pd_sim_b_11 __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

March 16, 2011, 10:46 AM	#12
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Wow. I actually ordered that book from Amazon, and I think I got ripped off. What I received was basically a sales brochure for Lyman products. Didn't look like that book at all. Maybe it was an older edition or something. I'll check when I get home. Steve

March 16, 2011, 01:26 PM	#13
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Ya it is actually kind of a decent book. I am glad I read it. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

March 18, 2011, 12:42 AM	#14
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Well, I ordered the wrong damn thing. I ordered the Lyman Reloading and Cast Bullet Guide. Cost $18! And all it is is basically a product catalog for Lyman. Damn.

March 18, 2011, 12:44 AM	#15
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	OK, Grubby, so for the Lee 230 grain Tuble Lube Groove Truncated Cone bullet, the starting was 4.6 grains of Bullseye? This is quite a bit more than what Lyman lists for the 230 grain LRN bullet, which starts at 4.0 grains. Steve

March 18, 2011, 07:27 AM	#16
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	I found it to be a very mild load, my springer XD likes the max load and shoots very well with it. The difference may have to do with how deep the bullet seats, but I am not sure. I have the same Lee mold # TL452-230-TC I found it to be a good shooting bullet but there are many on the cast forum who found it other wise. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

March 18, 2011, 06:33 PM	#17
Cascade1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 450	For what its worth: Hornady 8th: 4.4gr-5.5gr Lee 2nd:4.0 gr-4.0gr As a newb to .45 ACP I started at 4.5 and worked up to 5.5 by .2 gr. Had zero problems along the way. Everything functioned fine. Had zero indications of excess pressure. I'm going with the 4.7 gr bullseye for now and will compare to 4.5gr. and 4.3gr. I'll probably try loading down to see where I start getting function problems. (Above fired through Springfield Mil Spec 1911) Last edited by Cascade1911; March 19, 2011 at 12:26 PM.

March 19, 2011, 12:22 PM	#18
Cascade1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 450	It's interesting that Lee is claiming velocity of 810 fps for their 4.0 grains of Bullseye while Hornady predicts 800 fps with 4.7 grains.

March 19, 2011, 06:48 PM	#19
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Is the data the same across from both. Same bullet same seating depth same same every thing? Including test firearm. barrel lengths will give different fps results as well. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

March 19, 2011, 07:01 PM	#20
pstrlipscomb Member Join Date: March 18, 2011 Posts: 71	I have that one! I and a friend have been shooting that bullet with 4.6 grains of win 231 at 1.170 OAL. Shoots a little low for him but dead on for me from Kimber TLE II. A very accurate load for me. __________________ I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me. - Jesus Christ

March 20, 2011, 06:35 AM	#21
Cascade1911 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Dutchess County, NY Posts: 450	I'm sure you are right Grubbylabs. Hornady is using their own swaged bullet with a COL of 1.245" Lee is giving data for a generic "230 Grain Lead Bullet" with a "Min OAL" of 1.190". I've GOT to get me a chronograph so I can see for myself the effect various changes such as seating depth, make or style of bullet and even primer make and type.

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