Home defense load?

exilefromhell · October 18, 2001, 08:52 PM

What do you use? 00buck, birdshot, etc?

I always thought that something like #4 shot would only piss someone off and not do much more (besides f$%^ up your living room!)...and that 00 buck was the way, but I've noticed here and there that some have VERY different opinions. Regardless, let me know.

Thanks

oh... 870 Rem 18"

8200 rpm · October 18, 2001, 09:59 PM

Check this out:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Seems like #1 buckshot takes the cake.

C.R.Sam · October 18, 2001, 10:14 PM

Interesting link 8200...

My non scientific personal experience has been that within normal indoor house type ranges (10 yds or less) birdshot DOES penetrate some things.

#6 shot field load, entry hole in 4" hollow concrete block wall about 2", exit hole about 6" No appearant bounce back, all penetrated.

#7½ shot trap load, interior wall, 5/8" drywall both sides, entry hole bout 2", exit hole bout 3".

Necco wafers in a 12 bore at ten feet propably pretty nasty.

I prefer 00 buck or #2 shot, just cause I have a lot of em.

Sam

taco · October 19, 2001, 12:09 AM

I use Federal Tactical #4 Buck load for home.

J. Parker · October 19, 2001, 12:13 AM

I don't stoke up OL' SWEETNESS for home defense very often but when I do I like PMC's Low Recoil OO Buck. I shot this stuff and full power OO Buck one afternoon and there's a big difference in felt recoil.
I save my full power stuff for the woods and use PMC's Low Recoil for the house. Personally, I don't trust the "birdshot" theory. Best Regards, J. Parker

exilefromhell · October 19, 2001, 06:25 AM

50/50 huh? anybody else? anymore reads out there?

Dave McC · October 19, 2001, 06:32 AM

The old Govt data base I cannot access any more used to give the shotgun a 99% one shot stop rating, regardless of gauge or load.

I've a secondhand report of a 20 ga skeet load of #9 shot(7/8 oz) having a 14 inch permanent wound channel in gel, but I've no means to test that way myself.

At extreme close range, the wad contains the load and it hits like a solid mass, sort of a super sized Glaser Safety Slug. At greater distances, this applies less and less, but up to 10-15 yards, the pattern is atill less than 5".

From my training days, I recall some forensic pics that show awesome amounts of damage. One fellow, shot in the head at contact range, was missing everything above his nose.

A Forensic Pathologist I used to know described shotgun wounds as "Bloody Ratholes" and that the only difference between buck and bird shot at close range was that it was harder to remove all those little pellets.

All that said,folks have to pick their loads to suit their mission and environment. Here in the 'burbs, I mix load, so the first couple up in the chamber are bird shot,followed by 00. The paradigm is,the birdshot is LESS likely to overpenetrate and hurt non combatants, while if the AS scenario goes on after a couple of shots, I may need to shoot through my refrigerator. Other's needs will differ.

exilefromhell · October 19, 2001, 07:05 AM

Thanks for that indept...

What I'm asking I guess is if I picked up the $2.25/25 box of turkey shot on Walmarts shelf and it being the same at close range than 00buck.

DAVID NANCARROW · October 19, 2001, 07:24 AM

00 Buck-00 Buck-Slug-Slug-Slug

OkieCruffler · October 19, 2001, 09:44 AM

I only saw 3 shotgun wounds in my short stay as an ED nurse. All three from 10yrds or closer. One was with 00, one looked like 4's, the last and most recent was either 8's or 9's. The only difference in the wounds was how difficult it was to attempt to remove all those little black specks. FWIW, the only survivor was the guy hit in the gut by the 00. The guy hit by the 8's lasted 2 weeks before dying of sepsis, and that is no way to go.

exilefromhell · October 19, 2001, 09:50 AM

"8's" as in #8 shot? or what?

OkieCruffler · October 19, 2001, 09:54 AM

#8 shot, I'm just guessing, I never looked at the forensic report, but they sure looked like the #8 I load almost everything with.

OBIWAN · October 19, 2001, 04:30 PM

At household range, the wadding will probably go through a wall!

I second the nomination for low recoil 00 buck

Estate or PMC are both good and cheaper than the Federal

October 19, 2001, 09:44 AM	#10
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	I only saw 3 shotgun wounds in my short stay as an ED nurse. All three from 10yrds or closer. One was with 00, one looked like 4's, the last and most recent was either 8's or 9's. The only difference in the wounds was how difficult it was to attempt to remove all those little black specks. FWIW, the only survivor was the guy hit in the gut by the 00. The guy hit by the 8's lasted 2 weeks before dying of sepsis, and that is no way to go. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

October 19, 2001, 09:54 AM	#12
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	#8 shot, I'm just guessing, I never looked at the forensic report, but they sure looked like the #8 I load almost everything with. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

October 18, 2001, 08:52 PM	#1
exilefromhell Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: N/A Posts: 353	Home defense load? What do you use? 00buck, birdshot, etc? I always thought that something like #4 shot would only piss someone off and not do much more (besides f$%^ up your living room!)...and that 00 buck was the way, but I've noticed here and there that some have VERY different opinions. Regardless, let me know. Thanks oh... 870 Rem 18"

October 18, 2001, 09:59 PM	#2
8200 rpm Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 181	Check this out: http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm Seems like #1 buckshot takes the cake.

October 18, 2001, 10:14 PM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Interesting link 8200... My non scientific personal experience has been that within normal indoor house type ranges (10 yds or less) birdshot DOES penetrate some things. #6 shot field load, entry hole in 4" hollow concrete block wall about 2", exit hole about 6" No appearant bounce back, all penetrated. #7½ shot trap load, interior wall, 5/8" drywall both sides, entry hole bout 2", exit hole bout 3". Necco wafers in a 12 bore at ten feet propably pretty nasty. I prefer 00 buck or #2 shot, just cause I have a lot of em. Sam

October 19, 2001, 12:09 AM	#4
taco Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: USA Posts: 936	I use Federal Tactical #4 Buck load for home.

October 19, 2001, 12:13 AM	#5
J. Parker Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2000 Location: Ephrata, wa. USA Posts: 1,338	I don't stoke up OL' SWEETNESS for home defense very often but when I do I like PMC's Low Recoil OO Buck. I shot this stuff and full power OO Buck one afternoon and there's a big difference in felt recoil. I save my full power stuff for the woods and use PMC's Low Recoil for the house. Personally, I don't trust the "birdshot" theory. Best Regards, J. Parker

October 19, 2001, 06:25 AM	#6
exilefromhell Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: N/A Posts: 353	50/50 huh? anybody else? anymore reads out there?

October 19, 2001, 06:32 AM	#7
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	The old Govt data base I cannot access any more used to give the shotgun a 99% one shot stop rating, regardless of gauge or load. I've a secondhand report of a 20 ga skeet load of #9 shot(7/8 oz) having a 14 inch permanent wound channel in gel, but I've no means to test that way myself. At extreme close range, the wad contains the load and it hits like a solid mass, sort of a super sized Glaser Safety Slug. At greater distances, this applies less and less, but up to 10-15 yards, the pattern is atill less than 5". From my training days, I recall some forensic pics that show awesome amounts of damage. One fellow, shot in the head at contact range, was missing everything above his nose. A Forensic Pathologist I used to know described shotgun wounds as "Bloody Ratholes" and that the only difference between buck and bird shot at close range was that it was harder to remove all those little pellets. All that said,folks have to pick their loads to suit their mission and environment. Here in the 'burbs, I mix load, so the first couple up in the chamber are bird shot,followed by 00. The paradigm is,the birdshot is LESS likely to overpenetrate and hurt non combatants, while if the AS scenario goes on after a couple of shots, I may need to shoot through my refrigerator. Other's needs will differ.

October 19, 2001, 07:05 AM	#8
exilefromhell Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: N/A Posts: 353	Thanks for that indept... What I'm asking I guess is if I picked up the $2.25/25 box of turkey shot on Walmarts shelf and it being the same at close range than 00buck.

October 19, 2001, 07:24 AM	#9
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	00 Buck-00 Buck-Slug-Slug-Slug

October 19, 2001, 09:50 AM	#11
exilefromhell Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: N/A Posts: 353	"8's" as in #8 shot? or what?

October 19, 2001, 04:30 PM	#13
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	At household range, the wadding will probably go through a wall! I second the nomination for low recoil 00 buck Estate or PMC are both good and cheaper than the Federal