Any of you cut/welded a Mauser action/bolt, to make a short action?

tobnpr · July 13, 2015, 08:22 PM

I enjoy reading Roy Dunlap's ancient "Gunsmithing" book...I'm constantly amazed at how little some has changed (like his writings on barrel harmonics and accuracy) and how much, other things have.

Anyway- I'd never heard of Mauser actions (and bolts, natch) being cut/welded to make short actions- but apparently this was common practice with Mauser "sporterizing", "back in the day".

Looks like it would be an interesting project to try "just because", from a suitable (no- I wouldn't hack up a collectible Mauser...) action.

Anyone here done it?

James K · July 13, 2015, 10:16 PM

I never did one (I may not have been the world's worst welder, but I was in contention for the honor), but I have seen several Mauser actions that were done that way and several shops specialized in the work. What they did was to take two actions and cut them off center, leaving two long pieces and two short pieces. The two long parts were made into a Magnum action and the short parts became a short action for something like the triple deuce.

The bolts and firing pins, of course were treated the same way, as were the magazine boxes and the bottom metal. Once a shop got the proper jigs set up, the work was almost automatic and they maintained good tolerances.

Jim

corsair82pilot · July 13, 2015, 10:31 PM

WHY??

tobnpr · July 14, 2015, 06:48 AM

^^^
Because I like Chinese food.
Google "long action" and "short action"...

Mobuck · July 14, 2015, 06:53 AM

This sort of thing goes back to a time when there weren't any true "short actions"(and labor and Mauser actions were cheap). Now, there is no need to spend so much time and money--there are any number of moderately priced short actions available.

Dixie Gunsmithing · July 14, 2015, 07:13 AM

The converted sporters of yesterday are almost a thing of the past. Rarely, you'll have someone come in with an old Military rifle, and want it made into a sporter, since the price to do one can exceed some of the more expensive new bolt action rifles. There is actually a lot of work that goes into one of them.

F. Guffey · July 14, 2015, 07:24 AM

I posted pictures of one being 'put back together'. Then there all of the receivers and frames that were cut up. At one time it was particle, now it is not affordable. Cutting was one thing, shearing frames and receivers fractured them.

Kendal had an offer for a free download for Roy Dunlap's book, there seemed to be a lot of interest then nothing. Roy Dunlap said he first choice for a receiver was the M1917 Remington, because it did not have a an oval hole in the rear top receiver ring. He said his second choice was the M1917 Winchester, second because of the oval hole. Then he said the Eddystone was his last choice, because he never knew what he was getting. Now? I do not know, the only receiver I own that is cracked is an Eddystone. My Eddystone is not rare, I came across last month, I thought about it, wondered then placed it on a shelf.

F. Guffey

Hunter Customs · July 14, 2015, 07:39 AM

Quote:

(I may not have been the world's worst welder, but I was in contention for the honor),

James K, I can relate to the above.
My welds always held but there sure was a lot of dress up work needed.

Gunplummer · July 14, 2015, 09:05 AM

Yes. I still have one (Arisaka) in 7.62x39 that I occasionally hunt deer with. At the time there were no bolt action rifles in this caliber and it is not legal to hunt semi-auto in my state. Mausers are different material and easier to work with. Some guys cut the bolt in the middle, turned one part and bored the other. They then silver (Sweated) soldered the pieces together. I always welded. Nothing wrong with solder, just different ways of doing things.
I would suggest making something to hold (Jig) the receiver pieces to weld. If you are careful and don't spring the receiver the rest is handwork. Using two different receiver pieces can give you match up problems depending on who made them. Sometimes the bluing will be off color at the welds too.

tobnpr · July 14, 2015, 10:13 AM

Gentlemen,
If you refer to my OP, it was of interest to me "just because".
It doesn't take a lot of ciphering to figure out it's not a cost-effective exercise when I can buy a new SA rifle for $300.

It's about gaining skills- usually this skill set is reserved for de-milled parts kits (which are of interest to me with my 07) but I was not aware that it had been done commonly in the past and found it of interest.

F. Guffey · July 14, 2015, 11:25 AM

I have no ideal why it is always about something I do not understand. I am surrounded by a very talented group of reloaders/builders etc.

There is one thing to be curious, then there is serious, serious comes with a plan. If I wanted to stick 3 1911 frames together I would borrow the jig, same for the slide. there is little interest in short actions Mausers. The one thing that is not practical is 'one at a time', it is better to have a 55 gallon barrel full of cut-up parts. Then there was the opportunity to purchase Turkish Mausers for $49.00 and DP P14s for less.

F. Guffey

natman · July 14, 2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Any of you cut/welded a Mauser action/bolt, to make a short action?
I enjoy reading Roy Dunlap's ancient "Gunsmithing" book...I'm constantly amazed at how little some has changed (like his writings on barrel harmonics and accuracy) and how much, other things have.

Back in the day this was a way to make a short light rifle in a size suitable for 250 Savage or similar.

Now it's one of those things that's changed, because by the time you got a suitable action, paid a gunsmith qualified to do the job, carved a custom stock to fit the short Mauser action, bought and fitted a custom barrel, etc, etc you'd be money ahead to just buy a short action Kimber.

James K · July 14, 2015, 09:37 PM

Just FWIW, it was never really cost effective to "sporterize" a military rifle unless you got the rifle for nothing (if you don't count time spent slogging through the snow in Belgium). Of course a quick hacksaw job on the stock cost nothing, but even "back then" a GOOD sporter job would cost almost as much as a new sporter rifle and often much more.

Jim

Gunplummer · July 14, 2015, 09:44 PM

I agree. I have not gone to shows in a while, but it always amazed me why someone looking for a lower priced deer rifle would pass on all the really nice sporters for something new (And cheaply made!). Ten years ago the tables were full of really well done sporters that were really reasonably priced.

guncrank · July 14, 2015, 11:17 PM

No but I have a book that has a action cut and reweld

The middle was cut out and the action welded togather.
So was the bolt.

Seems to recall a NRA book or a early double day book on rifle smithing.

Dixie Gunsmithing · July 15, 2015, 07:11 AM

If one wanted to do it, to learn from the experience, then it can be done. The first thing is to fabricate a jig to hold the two receiver pieces solidly in place, for the welding. They can't be allowed to move and warp. Then, you need to grind the cut edges to form a V groove, to apply the weld into. You don't want 100% penetration, as that will put weld inside the receiver, which would all have to be machined out, so the V groove isn't that deep, but stops enough to allow the weld to bond the joint together. Then, it's a matter of tacking it, once in the jig, and doing a circumferential weld that is raised enough to allow you to blend it in on the OD. One would be better off doing it with TIG, but a small diameter rod would be my next choice, in 7018.

F. Guffey · July 15, 2015, 08:39 AM

Quote:

"back then" a GOOD sporter job would cost almost as much as a new sporter rifle and often much more.

Back then? Does anyone have a price list for parts and labor for 'back then'?

F. Guffey

Gunplummer · July 15, 2015, 12:01 PM

An old Browenell's catalog would probably have suggested shop prices in it.

Gunplummer · July 15, 2015, 12:57 PM

Here is one.[IMG]

[/IMG]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Shot quite a few deer with it. The bolt is totally made because I had to chance the design. It was a fun project, but till I was done about the only thing original was half the receiver and half the stock.thing

James K · July 15, 2015, 01:18 PM

"Back then? Does anyone have a price list for parts and labor for 'back then'?"

The cost would vary depending on when "back then" was, and I have no information from 1945. But around 1960 we charged $15 to bend a bolt, $10-12 to drill and tap, $20 for a plain partly inletted Bishop stock (Mauser), plus $20 to install and checker, $15 to reblue. I think that gives an idea of what a "sporter" job cost. At the same time, a standard Remington 721/722 ran $95, a Winchester 70 was $129, a Savage 340 was $57. So I will say again that a good sporterizing job would run as much or more than a new sporter rifle even if the rifle came "free". If you bought the rifle, milsurp Mausers were running $29, Mk III Enfields were $13-14, Carcanos $10.

Jim

Clark · July 15, 2015, 01:32 PM

I took two vz24 actions to the late Randy Ketchum and he cut and welded them for a 6mmBR length and a 338L length for me.

link below same as pic above

Dixie Gunsmithing · July 15, 2015, 01:48 PM

James, I used to use EC Bishop myself, and fitted many of their 80% stocks. It was a shame to see them close. What I heard, was that Macon Gunstocks bought some of their duplicators, and they are located close to where the old Bishop factory was, in Warsaw Mo. At the time, it was them or Fajen, but I always preferred Bishop. Bishop had a very good printed price guide and color brochure, which I guess was their catalog. I think I still have one somewhere.

James K · July 15, 2015, 08:47 PM

IIRC, Bishop was considered the "budget" place; Fajen was more upscale, but Fajen used a better grade of wood.

Jim

Dixie Gunsmithing · July 15, 2015, 09:15 PM

Jim, with Bishop, you could get a regular/plain grade stock, at 80%, or buy a classier grade, all the way up to XXXX Fancy. I think Fajen did a little more close fitting on their wood, so you didn't have to work as much to cut it down. Bishop did leave a little meat on them that had to be rasped away. I used to like Fitting Bishop's LC Smith stocks, since they didn't route the side plate recesses out too much, which allowed the smith to fit that, and leave the most wood that one could.

I've bought the last I fitted from Gunstocks, Inc., and Macon. Gunstocks Inc. has the better pricing though.

http://www.gunstocksinc.com/index.html

Gunplummer · July 15, 2015, 09:24 PM

Clark, is that magazine box permanently fixed on the lower sheet metal, or does it just look that way?

July 13, 2015, 08:22 PM	#1
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Any of you cut/welded a Mauser action/bolt, to make a short action? I enjoy reading Roy Dunlap's ancient "Gunsmithing" book...I'm constantly amazed at how little some has changed (like his writings on barrel harmonics and accuracy) and how much, other things have. Anyway- I'd never heard of Mauser actions (and bolts, natch) being cut/welded to make short actions- but apparently this was common practice with Mauser "sporterizing", "back in the day". Looks like it would be an interesting project to try "just because", from a suitable (no- I wouldn't hack up a collectible Mauser...) action. Anyone here done it? __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

July 14, 2015, 06:48 AM	#4
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	^^^ Because I like Chinese food. Google "long action" and "short action"... __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

July 14, 2015, 10:13 AM	#10
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Gentlemen, If you refer to my OP, it was of interest to me "just because". It doesn't take a lot of ciphering to figure out it's not a cost-effective exercise when I can buy a new SA rifle for $300. It's about gaining skills- usually this skill set is reserved for de-milled parts kits (which are of interest to me with my 07) but I was not aware that it had been done commonly in the past and found it of interest. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

July 14, 2015, 11:17 PM	#15
guncrank Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2006 Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large Posts: 430	No but I have a book that has a action cut and reweld The middle was cut out and the action welded togather. So was the bolt. Seems to recall a NRA book or a early double day book on rifle smithing. __________________ Republic Arms and Armaments 07 1-502-231-1118 Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public

July 15, 2015, 12:57 PM	#19
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	C/W Here is one.[IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] Shot quite a few deer with it. The bolt is totally made because I had to chance the design. It was a fun project, but till I was done about the only thing original was half the receiver and half the stock.thing Last edited by Gunplummer; July 15, 2015 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Add

July 13, 2015, 10:16 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I never did one (I may not have been the world's worst welder, but I was in contention for the honor), but I have seen several Mauser actions that were done that way and several shops specialized in the work. What they did was to take two actions and cut them off center, leaving two long pieces and two short pieces. The two long parts were made into a Magnum action and the short parts became a short action for something like the triple deuce. The bolts and firing pins, of course were treated the same way, as were the magazine boxes and the bottom metal. Once a shop got the proper jigs set up, the work was almost automatic and they maintained good tolerances. Jim

July 13, 2015, 10:31 PM	#3
corsair82pilot Member Join Date: March 19, 2015 Location: MD Posts: 29	WHY??

July 14, 2015, 06:53 AM	#5
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	This sort of thing goes back to a time when there weren't any true "short actions"(and labor and Mauser actions were cheap). Now, there is no need to spend so much time and money--there are any number of moderately priced short actions available.

July 14, 2015, 07:13 AM	#6
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The converted sporters of yesterday are almost a thing of the past. Rarely, you'll have someone come in with an old Military rifle, and want it made into a sporter, since the price to do one can exceed some of the more expensive new bolt action rifles. There is actually a lot of work that goes into one of them.

July 14, 2015, 07:24 AM	#7
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I posted pictures of one being 'put back together'. Then there all of the receivers and frames that were cut up. At one time it was particle, now it is not affordable. Cutting was one thing, shearing frames and receivers fractured them. Kendal had an offer for a free download for Roy Dunlap's book, there seemed to be a lot of interest then nothing. Roy Dunlap said he first choice for a receiver was the M1917 Remington, because it did not have a an oval hole in the rear top receiver ring. He said his second choice was the M1917 Winchester, second because of the oval hole. Then he said the Eddystone was his last choice, because he never knew what he was getting. Now? I do not know, the only receiver I own that is cracked is an Eddystone. My Eddystone is not rare, I came across last month, I thought about it, wondered then placed it on a shelf. F. Guffey

July 14, 2015, 09:05 AM	#9
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Yes. I still have one (Arisaka) in 7.62x39 that I occasionally hunt deer with. At the time there were no bolt action rifles in this caliber and it is not legal to hunt semi-auto in my state. Mausers are different material and easier to work with. Some guys cut the bolt in the middle, turned one part and bored the other. They then silver (Sweated) soldered the pieces together. I always welded. Nothing wrong with solder, just different ways of doing things. I would suggest making something to hold (Jig) the receiver pieces to weld. If you are careful and don't spring the receiver the rest is handwork. Using two different receiver pieces can give you match up problems depending on who made them. Sometimes the bluing will be off color at the welds too.

July 14, 2015, 11:25 AM	#11
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I have no ideal why it is always about something I do not understand. I am surrounded by a very talented group of reloaders/builders etc. There is one thing to be curious, then there is serious, serious comes with a plan. If I wanted to stick 3 1911 frames together I would borrow the jig, same for the slide. there is little interest in short actions Mausers. The one thing that is not practical is 'one at a time', it is better to have a 55 gallon barrel full of cut-up parts. Then there was the opportunity to purchase Turkish Mausers for $49.00 and DP P14s for less. F. Guffey

July 14, 2015, 09:37 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just FWIW, it was never really cost effective to "sporterize" a military rifle unless you got the rifle for nothing (if you don't count time spent slogging through the snow in Belgium). Of course a quick hacksaw job on the stock cost nothing, but even "back then" a GOOD sporter job would cost almost as much as a new sporter rifle and often much more. Jim

July 14, 2015, 09:44 PM	#14
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I agree. I have not gone to shows in a while, but it always amazed me why someone looking for a lower priced deer rifle would pass on all the really nice sporters for something new (And cheaply made!). Ten years ago the tables were full of really well done sporters that were really reasonably priced.

July 15, 2015, 07:11 AM	#16
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	If one wanted to do it, to learn from the experience, then it can be done. The first thing is to fabricate a jig to hold the two receiver pieces solidly in place, for the welding. They can't be allowed to move and warp. Then, you need to grind the cut edges to form a V groove, to apply the weld into. You don't want 100% penetration, as that will put weld inside the receiver, which would all have to be machined out, so the V groove isn't that deep, but stops enough to allow the weld to bond the joint together. Then, it's a matter of tacking it, once in the jig, and doing a circumferential weld that is raised enough to allow you to blend it in on the OD. One would be better off doing it with TIG, but a small diameter rod would be my next choice, in 7018.

July 15, 2015, 12:01 PM	#18
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	An old Browenell's catalog would probably have suggested shop prices in it.

July 15, 2015, 01:18 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"Back then? Does anyone have a price list for parts and labor for 'back then'?" The cost would vary depending on when "back then" was, and I have no information from 1945. But around 1960 we charged $15 to bend a bolt, $10-12 to drill and tap, $20 for a plain partly inletted Bishop stock (Mauser), plus $20 to install and checker, $15 to reblue. I think that gives an idea of what a "sporter" job cost. At the same time, a standard Remington 721/722 ran $95, a Winchester 70 was $129, a Savage 340 was $57. So I will say again that a good sporterizing job would run as much or more than a new sporter rifle even if the rifle came "free". If you bought the rifle, milsurp Mausers were running $29, Mk III Enfields were $13-14, Carcanos $10. Jim

July 15, 2015, 01:48 PM	#22
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	James, I used to use EC Bishop myself, and fitted many of their 80% stocks. It was a shame to see them close. What I heard, was that Macon Gunstocks bought some of their duplicators, and they are located close to where the old Bishop factory was, in Warsaw Mo. At the time, it was them or Fajen, but I always preferred Bishop. Bishop had a very good printed price guide and color brochure, which I guess was their catalog. I think I still have one somewhere.

July 15, 2015, 08:47 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, Bishop was considered the "budget" place; Fajen was more upscale, but Fajen used a better grade of wood. Jim

July 15, 2015, 09:15 PM	#24
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Jim, with Bishop, you could get a regular/plain grade stock, at 80%, or buy a classier grade, all the way up to XXXX Fancy. I think Fajen did a little more close fitting on their wood, so you didn't have to work as much to cut it down. Bishop did leave a little meat on them that had to be rasped away. I used to like Fitting Bishop's LC Smith stocks, since they didn't route the side plate recesses out too much, which allowed the smith to fit that, and leave the most wood that one could. I've bought the last I fitted from Gunstocks, Inc., and Macon. Gunstocks Inc. has the better pricing though. http://www.gunstocksinc.com/index.html

July 15, 2015, 09:24 PM	#25
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Clark, is that magazine box permanently fixed on the lower sheet metal, or does it just look that way?