Recommended reading (Ayoob and like)

alberich · March 17, 2009, 09:00 AM

Any tips for my next Amazon order? I'm into books written by people who were actually in a life threatening situations when firearms were involved. Be it SD, war or whatever. Memories and experiences of LEOs, soldiers (with an accent on the combat tactics, not exactly the military life in general) and so on. I'm not much interested in Gun defence manuals written by people who shoot a lot, compete a lot but were never in a real gunfight. I think I have already a good idea how to hold a pistol, hit an alpha zone or get a popper down, so I'm looking for a lesson two.

Any book titles and web links are very welcome, thanks in advance.

indiandave · March 17, 2009, 12:32 PM

Thank God I had a gun by Chris Bird and Guns save Lives by Robert A Waters. They are about real self defense stories.

GuyMontag · March 17, 2009, 12:37 PM

Street Fight in Iraq
http://www.leatherneckpublishing.com/Reviews/a10.htm
My brother's actually in this book and was with and knew the guy who wrote it.

http://www.amazon.com/House-David-Be.../dp/1416574719

FM12 · March 17, 2009, 04:35 PM

"No Second Place Winner", Bill Jordan.

kraigwy · March 17, 2009, 04:51 PM

Bill Jordon's NO SECOND PLACE WINNER is good, and should be required reading for anyone going into LE.

McBride A RIFLEMAN GOES TO WAR, for rifle, this one should be required reading for anyone going into the military.

rampage841512 · March 17, 2009, 04:56 PM

I'm just about finished reading The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry by Ayoob. I've really liked the information in there. There's a lot of information, some was old to me but there was more than enough new to keep me reading.

goodspeed(TPF) · March 17, 2009, 04:58 PM

Hand gun Stopping power - Marshall and Sanow. Also: Street Stoppers- Marshall and Sanow.

alberich · March 18, 2009, 04:53 AM

Thanks for the info so far and please keep it coming!

matthew temkin · March 18, 2009, 07:05 AM

Kill or Get Killed by Applegate.

Shooting To Live by Fairabairn & Sykes

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss__...prefix=kill+or

bds32 · March 19, 2009, 09:41 AM

Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights by the late Jim Cirillo. Jim details several of his gunfights and spends time talking about very important issues and tactics.

Combat Handgunnery by Ayoob. Don't know if he's been there, but he has sure talked to a lot of people who have. His book uses real life examples to provide sound gunfighting skills.

Street Survival by Remsburg (calibre press). This is a tactics text for police officers but there are chapters devoted to gunfighting. This book is almost thirty years old but I still love to re-read it.

MDCREEKMORE · March 19, 2009, 03:07 PM

Tactical Pistol Shooting by Erik Lawrence - if I could have only one book on pistol shooting and use this would be it. Loaded with information.

tenntex · March 19, 2009, 04:56 PM

Secrets Of Street Survival - Israeli Style: Staying Alive In A Civilian War Zone by Eugene Sockut

Lee Lapin · March 19, 2009, 07:51 PM

Shots Fired In Anger by John B. George

Texans, Guns and History and Unrepentant Sinner by Charles Askins

Hell, I Was There by Elmer Keith

Stressfire and Stressfire II by Mas Ayoob

C Stories and To Ride, Shoot Straight, And Speak The Truth by Jeff Cooper

That ought to keep you busy for a while... 8^)

lpl

bababooey32 · March 20, 2009, 08:45 AM

I've heard alot about Massad Ayoob's books. What is the quintessential Ayoob book? His best, must-read book?

pax · March 20, 2009, 09:03 AM

bababooey ~

No gunowner bookshelf should be without Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme. That's the classic.

alberich ~

I can't believe no one has yet mentioned David Klinger's Into the Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force. Klinger performed extensive and detailed interviews following a little over 100 deadly force incidents where cops shot criminals in defense of self or others. The study was performed under a grant from the DOJ (you can find it by going to www.killzonevoices.com and following the links from there) and under the terms of the grant, Klinger was required to protect his interviewees' identities. Those guys & gals gave him some amazing, fabulous first-hand accounts of using deadly force, and those stories are published in narrative form in the Kill Zone book.

pax

Scattergun Bob · March 20, 2009, 09:09 AM

The best book that Mass ever wrote was "you spending the cash to take his LFI-1 course", that's my opinion. Nothing takes the place of nose to nose communication.

In these days of common hard times, $800 dollars is a bunch of cash. So, my most dog-eared Mass book is Stressfire (in general) and Stressfire II (if you are inclined toward scatterguns for gunfighting).

To add to your list, I really appreciate Louie Awerbuck, I have had the fortune of spending time with him "off range" and he is both entertaining and a great fellow. Try Tactical Reality and More Tactical Reality, please remember that folks from East Africa have a different slant and humor on life.

Good Luck in your quest, and Be Safe

BlueTrain · March 25, 2009, 04:08 PM

I personally like some of the older books, even when they seem a little dated, like Chic Gaylord (I think I'm remembering the name right) but the only serious criticism I can give is that different authors have different standpoints on, well, gunfighting. Older books tend to ignore the legal aspects of shootings but they also tend to gloss over some of the more mundane aspects of gun handling. For instance, I think that Fairbairn was very frank and realistic in his book (and he liked the .45 auto) and gave very good reasons for his line of thinking, yet somehow managed to leave out precisely how he expected his policemen to draw and chamber a round with a Colt .45 Automatic from a flapped holster and do it quickly. I guess he covered that in his training. But he never suggested you needed to shoot a hundred rounds a week to remain proficient even though he practically invented action shooting (the funhouse).

All these books can be surprisingly thin, too.

I love Elmer Keith's writings but somehow I don't feel he has much real practical advice for a suburbanite when it comes to guns. He lived in a different world than I do and so did Jeff Cooper. I guess most of the others did, too, for that matter, to be honest. Applegate comes across a little harder in a way the others usually don't.

Powdersmoke · April 20, 2009, 09:54 PM

Scattergun Bob,

Quote:

The best book that Mass ever wrote was "you spending the cash to take his LFI-1 course", that's my opinion. Nothing takes the place of nose to nose communication

I couldn't agree more! I took LFI-1 in 2004. Took me a long time to be in a position to afford it but it was worth the money!

anythingshiny · April 21, 2009, 10:13 AM

principles of self defense by jeff cooper is a short but very important read.

Deaf Smith · April 21, 2009, 06:52 PM

I'd say, after a period of time, to get all the above books. And then some!

“In The Gravest Extreme” would be the first in my opinion. It's not one on tactics but your mindset.

Then branch out and get one of shooting and one on what I call 'personal adventures'.

Tactical Pistol Shooting by Erik Lawrence is petty good, as well as Gabe's book The Tactical Pistol. And "Surgical Speed Shooting: How To Achieve High-Speed Marksmanship In A Gunfight" by Andy Stanford, SECRETS OF A MASTER GUNFIGHTER by Cirillo.

Tons of personal accounts that have lots of technical advice:

"Shots Fired In Anger" by John B. George

"A RIFLEMAN GOES TO WAR" by McBride

are both really good.

Once you become proficient at shooting, then go farther. Yes Applegate, Fairbrain, Bill Jordan, Jeff Cooper, Charlie Askins (he wrote a few on shooting, I know cuase I have 'em.)

You can get quite a library that way, and it's much better than sitting on your posterior watching TV!

NRAhab · April 21, 2009, 08:46 PM

"Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos.

March 17, 2009, 09:00 AM	#1
alberich Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 117	Recommended reading (Ayoob and like) Any tips for my next Amazon order? I'm into books written by people who were actually in a life threatening situations when firearms were involved. Be it SD, war or whatever. Memories and experiences of LEOs, soldiers (with an accent on the combat tactics, not exactly the military life in general) and so on. I'm not much interested in Gun defence manuals written by people who shoot a lot, compete a lot but were never in a real gunfight. I think I have already a good idea how to hold a pistol, hit an alpha zone or get a popper down, so I'm looking for a lesson two. Any book titles and web links are very welcome, thanks in advance. __________________ I beg you, Gentlemen, act with Conduct and discretion. A Pistol is your last Resort. The Beggar's Opera, John Gay

March 17, 2009, 04:51 PM	#5
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Bill Jordon's NO SECOND PLACE WINNER is good, and should be required reading for anyone going into LE. McBride A RIFLEMAN GOES TO WAR, for rifle, this one should be required reading for anyone going into the military. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

March 17, 2009, 04:56 PM	#6
rampage841512 Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2007 Location: Gardendale, Alabama Posts: 665	I'm just about finished reading The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry by Ayoob. I've really liked the information in there. There's a lot of information, some was old to me but there was more than enough new to keep me reading. __________________ "What is play to the fool and the idiot is deadly serious to the man with the gun." Walt Rauch,Combat Handguns, May '08

March 17, 2009, 04:58 PM	#7
goodspeed(TPF) Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2009 Location: WI Posts: 1,162	Hand gun Stopping power - Marshall and Sanow. Also: Street Stoppers- Marshall and Sanow. __________________ It's a trick. Get an axe. http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml

March 18, 2009, 04:53 AM	#8
alberich Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 117	Thanks for the info so far and please keep it coming! __________________ I beg you, Gentlemen, act with Conduct and discretion. A Pistol is your last Resort. The Beggar's Opera, John Gay

March 17, 2009, 12:32 PM	#2
indiandave Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 214	Thank God I had a gun by Chris Bird and Guns save Lives by Robert A Waters. They are about real self defense stories.

March 17, 2009, 12:37 PM	#3
GuyMontag Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 131	Street Fight in Iraq http://www.leatherneckpublishing.com/Reviews/a10.htm My brother's actually in this book and was with and knew the guy who wrote it. http://www.amazon.com/House-David-Be.../dp/1416574719

March 17, 2009, 04:35 PM	#4
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	"No Second Place Winner", Bill Jordan.

March 18, 2009, 07:05 AM	#9
matthew temkin Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 363	Kill or Get Killed by Applegate. Shooting To Live by Fairabairn & Sykes https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss__...prefix=kill+or

March 19, 2009, 09:41 AM	#10
bds32 Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 481	Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights by the late Jim Cirillo. Jim details several of his gunfights and spends time talking about very important issues and tactics. Combat Handgunnery by Ayoob. Don't know if he's been there, but he has sure talked to a lot of people who have. His book uses real life examples to provide sound gunfighting skills. Street Survival by Remsburg (calibre press). This is a tactics text for police officers but there are chapters devoted to gunfighting. This book is almost thirty years old but I still love to re-read it.

March 19, 2009, 03:07 PM	#11
MDCREEKMORE Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2009 Posts: 5	Tactical Pistol Shooting by Erik Lawrence - if I could have only one book on pistol shooting and use this would be it. Loaded with information. __________________ The Survivalist Blog - Live better, Live cheaper and Survive when things get Tough. http://thesurvivalistblog.blogspot.com

March 19, 2009, 04:56 PM	#12
tenntex Junior Member Join Date: March 19, 2009 Posts: 1	Secrets Of Street Survival - Israeli Style: Staying Alive In A Civilian War Zone by Eugene Sockut

March 19, 2009, 07:51 PM	#13
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Shots Fired In Anger by John B. George Texans, Guns and History and Unrepentant Sinner by Charles Askins Hell, I Was There by Elmer Keith Stressfire and Stressfire II by Mas Ayoob C Stories and To Ride, Shoot Straight, And Speak The Truth by Jeff Cooper That ought to keep you busy for a while... 8^) lpl

March 20, 2009, 08:45 AM	#14
bababooey32 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 161	Ayoob I've heard alot about Massad Ayoob's books. What is the quintessential Ayoob book? His best, must-read book?

March 20, 2009, 09:03 AM	#15
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	bababooey ~ No gunowner bookshelf should be without Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme. That's the classic. alberich ~ I can't believe no one has yet mentioned David Klinger's Into the Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force. Klinger performed extensive and detailed interviews following a little over 100 deadly force incidents where cops shot criminals in defense of self or others. The study was performed under a grant from the DOJ (you can find it by going to www.killzonevoices.com and following the links from there) and under the terms of the grant, Klinger was required to protect his interviewees' identities. Those guys & gals gave him some amazing, fabulous first-hand accounts of using deadly force, and those stories are published in narrative form in the Kill Zone book. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat Last edited by pax; March 20, 2009 at 09:08 AM.

March 20, 2009, 09:09 AM	#16
Scattergun Bob Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2008 Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington Posts: 1,186	bababooey32 The best book that Mass ever wrote was "you spending the cash to take his LFI-1 course", that's my opinion. Nothing takes the place of nose to nose communication. In these days of common hard times, $800 dollars is a bunch of cash. So, my most dog-eared Mass book is Stressfire (in general) and Stressfire II (if you are inclined toward scatterguns for gunfighting). To add to your list, I really appreciate Louie Awerbuck, I have had the fortune of spending time with him "off range" and he is both entertaining and a great fellow. Try Tactical Reality and More Tactical Reality, please remember that folks from East Africa have a different slant and humor on life. Good Luck in your quest, and Be Safe __________________ First, with the most, WINS! Regards, Scattergun Bob

March 25, 2009, 04:08 PM	#17
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	I personally like some of the older books, even when they seem a little dated, like Chic Gaylord (I think I'm remembering the name right) but the only serious criticism I can give is that different authors have different standpoints on, well, gunfighting. Older books tend to ignore the legal aspects of shootings but they also tend to gloss over some of the more mundane aspects of gun handling. For instance, I think that Fairbairn was very frank and realistic in his book (and he liked the .45 auto) and gave very good reasons for his line of thinking, yet somehow managed to leave out precisely how he expected his policemen to draw and chamber a round with a Colt .45 Automatic from a flapped holster and do it quickly. I guess he covered that in his training. But he never suggested you needed to shoot a hundred rounds a week to remain proficient even though he practically invented action shooting (the funhouse). All these books can be surprisingly thin, too. I love Elmer Keith's writings but somehow I don't feel he has much real practical advice for a suburbanite when it comes to guns. He lived in a different world than I do and so did Jeff Cooper. I guess most of the others did, too, for that matter, to be honest. Applegate comes across a little harder in a way the others usually don't. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

April 21, 2009, 10:13 AM	#19
anythingshiny Member Join Date: June 20, 2008 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 96	principles of self defense by jeff cooper is a short but very important read. __________________ O.O.D.A Observe. Overreact. Destroy. Apologize.

April 21, 2009, 06:52 PM	#20
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	I'd say, after a period of time, to get all the above books. And then some! “In The Gravest Extreme” would be the first in my opinion. It's not one on tactics but your mindset. Then branch out and get one of shooting and one on what I call 'personal adventures'. Tactical Pistol Shooting by Erik Lawrence is petty good, as well as Gabe's book The Tactical Pistol. And "Surgical Speed Shooting: How To Achieve High-Speed Marksmanship In A Gunfight" by Andy Stanford, SECRETS OF A MASTER GUNFIGHTER by Cirillo. Tons of personal accounts that have lots of technical advice: "Shots Fired In Anger" by John B. George "A RIFLEMAN GOES TO WAR" by McBride are both really good. Once you become proficient at shooting, then go farther. Yes Applegate, Fairbrain, Bill Jordan, Jeff Cooper, Charlie Askins (he wrote a few on shooting, I know cuase I have 'em.) You can get quite a library that way, and it's much better than sitting on your posterior watching TV! __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

April 21, 2009, 08:46 PM	#21
NRAhab Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 683	"Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals" by Brian Enos. __________________ Join the community at GunUp!